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Anchored Putters Rules Change (Effective January 1, 2016) - Page 75

post #1333 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post


Yeah dude, don't you get it? The USGA are puppets to the R&A, who are just puppets to the third world dictators.

Is the R&A HQ's at the UN?

post #1334 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLund View Post

I've been using a Reeso VTX broomhandle putter for the past two+ years. My putting stats are within a tenth of a stroke of my putting stats for the previous two years using a short putter. The major difference of the anchored stroke for me is that it took out the tension of my 67-year old nervous hands and made putting much more enjoyable. That said, I am now working with a new Odessey DART, possibly the ugliest putter ever made, and find that it targets nicely and with an oversized grip, and newly learned shoulder rotation stroke, seems to work quite well. I'm not ready to take it out on the course yet but I remain positive that I can revert to the short putter again should I have to. Will I miss the broomhandle? Not much. It is a nuisance to carry and the butt of tiresome golf buddy jokes. 

Hae you tried to putt like Kuchar does it, runnng a longer putter up his arm? It's not anchored and it is OK. I think I am going to ry it out this season. Plus, do you want to lose your advantage when taking those club length drops?a2_wink.gif

post #1335 of 1852

I have read all the debate about the "long putter ban". I have yet to see HOW using a long putter is not a stroke?

Does the club move? Yes

Does the head swing back and forth? Yes

Does it hit the ball towards the hole? Yes

If anchoring against the body is wrong..........why not wrong to "anchor against" the forearm?

What if I "anchor" my arm against my body, and just hold the putter and let it swing like a fulcrum? Will that be outlawed?

 

I say they, the USGA and others waited too long to make this decision. (reminds me of the anti- Snead Croquet Style ruling..........Dey and Jones just thought it didn't look like golf..........whatever that means!)

 

I have tried the longer putter, its NOT for me, but I have nothing against a fellow player using the style. I donot believe it gives him a decided edge over other golfers. Just like mulligans and adjusting the ball in the fairway. Do not lecture me that I may NOT be playing golf, but I know my friends enjoy it  more and have more fun. We played strictly USGA Rules for a few years and two of my friends just quit! They said it just wasn't fun anymore. And I agree. So now we play all 18. Move the ball around, use too long putters anchored against our bodies, and make up silly games as we go. The money buys a few drinks and everyone goes home happy.

 

But then again, we are having way too much fun. So much so, that two of our wives now WANT to join us. May have to go back to "USGA" golf after all.

post #1336 of 1852

If you have read all the debate you will have seen this

 

http://www.usga.org/rules/Proposed-Changes-to-Rule-14-1/

 

Did you not understand that the opposite end to the head being able to move is the problem?

Did you not see that the USGA are not concerened with any 'decided edge'?

Did you understand the diagrams relating to the forearm?

Did see the video at about 3m40s where is was clearly showing the grip end moving freely?

post #1337 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingkat1954 View Post

I have read all the debate about the "long putter ban". I have yet to see HOW using a long putter is not a stroke?

Does the club move? Yes

Does the head swing back and forth? Yes

Does it hit the ball towards the hole? Yes

If anchoring against the body is wrong..........why not wrong to "anchor against" the forearm?

What if I "anchor" my arm against my body, and just hold the putter and let it swing like a fulcrum? Will that be outlawed?

 

I say they, the USGA and others waited too long to make this decision. (reminds me of the anti- Snead Croquet Style ruling..........Dey and Jones just thought it didn't look like golf..........whatever that means!)

 

I have tried the longer putter, its NOT for me, but I have nothing against a fellow player using the style. I donot believe it gives him a decided edge over other golfers. Just like mulligans and adjusting the ball in the fairway. Do not lecture me that I may NOT be playing golf, but I know my friends enjoy it  more and have more fun. We played strictly USGA Rules for a few years and two of my friends just quit! They said it just wasn't fun anymore. And I agree. So now we play all 18. Move the ball around, use too long putters anchored against our bodies, and make up silly games as we go. The money buys a few drinks and everyone goes home happy.

 

But then again, we are having way too much fun. So much so, that two of our wives now WANT to join us. May have to go back to "USGA" golf after all.

 

Well, just so long as you know that you can't post those scores for handicap purposes.

post #1338 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingkat1954 View Post

I have read all the debate about the "long putter ban". I have yet to see HOW using a long putter is not a stroke?

Does the club move? Yes

Does the head swing back and forth? Yes

Does it hit the ball towards the hole? Yes

If anchoring against the body is wrong..........why not wrong to "anchor against" the forearm?

What if I "anchor" my arm against my body, and just hold the putter and let it swing like a fulcrum? Will that be outlawed?

 

I say they, the USGA and others waited too long to make this decision. (reminds me of the anti- Snead Croquet Style ruling..........Dey and Jones just thought it didn't look like golf..........whatever that means!)

 

I have tried the longer putter, its NOT for me, but I have nothing against a fellow player using the style. I donot believe it gives him a decided edge over other golfers. Just like mulligans and adjusting the ball in the fairway. Do not lecture me that I may NOT be playing golf, but I know my friends enjoy it  more and have more fun. We played strictly USGA Rules for a few years and two of my friends just quit! They said it just wasn't fun anymore. And I agree. So now we play all 18. Move the ball around, use too long putters anchored against our bodies, and make up silly games as we go. The money buys a few drinks and everyone goes home happy.

 

But then again, we are having way too much fun. So much so, that two of our wives now WANT to join us. May have to go back to "USGA" golf after all.

 

And nobody is saying that you can't do that within your group.  Your scores will never be "official", you can't carry a handicap, and you certainly can't play that way in a competition, or in fact in a wager outside of your group of friends, but you are welcome to do what you like within those limitations.  

 

The question is, why even bother to post on a rules forum when you clearly don't really care about the rules.  Any changes made will have no effect on you or your group, so in that respect, it's irrelevant to you.  

 

And by the way, I would have less fun with the game if I played it with your attitude. So much so that I might even give it up if I couldn't play by the rules.  If I played in your group, I wouldn't change anything in the way I play, and if you had a problem with that then.... I guess we'd have to part company.

post #1339 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingkat1954 View Post

What if I "anchor" my arm against my body, and just hold the putter and let it swing like a fulcrum? Will that be outlawed?

I realize that your questions were mostly rhetorical, but the answer to the above is a qualified yes.  If you anchor the arm below the elbow, that will be considered anchoring and it will be banned.  If you "anchor" at the elbow or above, you'll be OK.

post #1340 of 1852

Very interesting comments. They are enlightening and informational.

 

My attitude towards golf has, I guess evolved. I want to have fun instead of trying to improve my game so much I got very frustrated at my progress.

 

Back to the Rules part.

I am writing this from memory and I may have left some parts out. A few years ago..............

I quit trying to understand the USGA, when, in a sanctioned tournament, (a junior event) the clear leader, by about 10 or so strokes, walked up the last fairway when his father wanted to join him in celebration. If I remember correctly, the father grabbed his son's putter and carried it up to the green and then handed it to him to finish his round. They celebrated his win.

 

THEN, some rules person said the player had violated a rule where a player could not have two caddies(?) and he was disqualified. In my mind just plain wrong.

 

Or remember the "Craig Stadler- can't-build-a-stance fiasco"? All he wanted to do was keep his pants clean from dirt. Again, he did not clearly gain any advantage over the field.

Sorry, but Rules should be written to keep the playing field fair and level for everyone. Not to punish.

And I know those scores are not for handicap purposes. Nor can I enter a Tournament and play that way.

 

Just a question: How is (in the well illustrated diagrams) "Forearns held against the body"  (allowed) different than the illustration "Anchor point created by the FOREARM? (not allowed) Looks the same to me.

 

I have enjoyed this commentary. It is clear there are many sides, and although I may be in the minority, I respect everyone's views. They have helped me understand this rule change a lot better. Thank you for all the information.

post #1341 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingkat1954 View Post

Very interesting comments. They are enlightening and informational.

 

My attitude towards golf has, I guess evolved. I want to have fun instead of trying to improve my game so much I got very frustrated at my progress.

 

Back to the Rules part.

I am writing this from memory and I may have left some parts out. A few years ago..............

I quit trying to understand the USGA, when, in a sanctioned tournament, (a junior event) the clear leader, by about 10 or so strokes, walked up the last fairway when his father wanted to join him in celebration. If I remember correctly, the father grabbed his son's putter and carried it up to the green and then handed it to him to finish his round. They celebrated his win.

 

THEN, some rules person said the player had violated a rule where a player could not have two caddies(?) and he was disqualified. In my mind just plain wrong.

 

Or remember the "Craig Stadler- can't-build-a-stance fiasco"? All he wanted to do was keep his pants clean from dirt. Again, he did not clearly gain any advantage over the field.

Sorry, but Rules should be written to keep the playing field fair and level for everyone. Not to punish.

And I know those scores are not for handicap purposes. Nor can I enter a Tournament and play that way.

 

Just a question: How is (in the well illustrated diagrams) "Forearns held against the body"  (allowed) different than the illustration "Anchor point created by the FOREARM? (not allowed) Looks the same to me.

 

I have enjoyed this commentary. It is clear there are many sides, and although I may be in the minority, I respect everyone's views. They have helped me understand this rule change a lot better. Thank you for all the information.

 

All the rules have a purpose.  Kneel on the ground.  Now kneel on a towel.  There's a huge difference.  What he SHOULD have done is ask an official if he could wrap a plastic bag around each knee to keep them from getting soiled.  This would have been a lot different than improving the conditions of his stance with a towel.

 

As for the father who celebrated a little too soon (ANYTHING can happen on a hole, mind you!) the father, the son AND the son's caddie should have known better.  How do you enter a tourney without knowing the most basic rules of golf?

 

You can try making them sound complex, but they're not that difficult to understand, nor is there any excuse for not following the vast majority of them.  Now if you have difficulty with your skills, by all means use the foot wedge, put the ball on a tuft of grass in the fairway, or even tee it up in the fairway if that's what you want to do (seem to recall PGA of America actually recommending that for beginning golfers a while back).  But don't make it sound like the rules shouldn't apply to PROFESSIONALS just because your skills aren't up to par.  Mine aren't either, honestly.  But there is no correlation between the rules and our lack of ability.  Ya know?

post #1342 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingkat1954 View Post


Just a question: How is (in the well illustrated diagrams) "Forearns held against the body"  (allowed) different than the illustration "Anchor point created by the FOREARM? (not allowed) Looks the same to me.

 

That's been brought up by others but don't remember if there has been a satisfactory answer. It's a good question.

post #1343 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave67az View Post

 

All the rules have a purpose.  Kneel on the ground.  Now kneel on a towel.  There's a huge difference.  What he SHOULD have done is ask an official if he could wrap a plastic bag around each knee to keep them from getting soiled.  This would have been a lot different than improving the conditions of his stance with a towel.

 

As for the father who celebrated a little too soon (ANYTHING can happen on a hole, mind you!) the father, the son AND the son's caddie should have known better.  How do you enter a tourney without knowing the most basic rules of golf?

 

You can try making them sound complex, but they're not that difficult to understand, nor is there any excuse for not following the vast majority of them.  Now if you have difficulty with your skills, by all means use the foot wedge, put the ball on a tuft of grass in the fairway, or even tee it up in the fairway if that's what you want to do (seem to recall PGA of America actually recommending that for beginning golfers a while back).  But don't make it sound like the rules shouldn't apply to PROFESSIONALS just because your skills aren't up to par.  Mine aren't either, honestly.  But there is no correlation between the rules and our lack of ability.  Ya know?

 

 

      While I wholeheartedly agree with you, I guess I see "Intent " to go around the rules rather than innocent action. I know, ignorance is no excuse..........and yes, the rules SHOULD apply to professionals, its their livelihood.

I also remember a few years ago when Palmer endorsed the ERC3 driver? The USGA said it did not conform(?) but Palmer said he thought it was a good club for recreational golfing?

I agree with Palmer. Recreational golf it is.

 

I appreciate your thoughts. I just wish we could all sit around the "19th Hole"and converse some more. First round is on me!

post #1344 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingkat1954 View Post

      While I wholeheartedly agree with you, I guess I see "Intent " to go around the rules rather than innocent action. I know, ignorance is no excuse..........and yes, the rules SHOULD apply to professionals, its their livelihood.

I also remember a few years ago when Palmer endorsed the ERC3 driver? The USGA said it did not conform(?) but Palmer said he thought it was a good club for recreational golfing?

I agree with Palmer. Recreational golf it is.

 

I appreciate your thoughts. I just wish we could all sit around the "19th Hole"and converse some more. First round is on me!

 

Yeah, but we can't always go by intent, because that makes the presumption that if you don't know about a rule it shouldn't be enforceable on you.  Remember hearing that phrase growing up that "ignorance of the law is no excuse"?  Well, it's true.  Just because you don't KNOW about a law/rule in life doesn't mean you're exempt from following it.  Fact is, we each have a responsibility to learn the laws/rules in life and to abide by them.  I did a career in the Air Force and I heard (more than a few times) fellow Airmen use the excuse that they weren't aware of a regulation and that's why they disobeyed it.  Sometimes it was true.  Sometimes it was just an excuse because it was easier for them to claim ignorance than to explain why they disobeyed a reg.

 

The rules, just like Air Force regs, need to be black and white.  And enforcement needs to be black and white.  No excuses.  No letting someone off just because they AND their caddie didn't read the rules of the game before entering a tournament.

 

But again, we're talking about tournaments (and official rounds for handicap purposes).  Not recreational "just for fun" play.  And there's nothing wrong with "just for fun" play so long as you don't abuse the course or disrupt the play of others.  And if the ONLY time you play is "just for fun" then by all means use whatever clubs you want, whatever putting style you want, mulligans, etc.  But if you're not going to abide by the rules, why even ask about them?  It's not like it's going to affect your game one way or the other...know what I mean?

post #1345 of 1852

I agree with you.

I guess I donot see where the "anchored putter" style is either a detrement to the game, or needs to be banned. That's all.

 

I donot argue that the USGA is the authority on the rules. I just am puzzled by this instance. I think they are too late for the change. But its their ability to interpret the rules.

post #1346 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingkat1954 View Post

I agree with you.

I guess I donot see where the "anchored putter" style is either a detrement to the game, or needs to be banned. That's all.

 

I donot argue that the USGA is the authority on the rules. I just am puzzled by this instance. I think they are too late for the change. But its their ability to interpret the rules.

 

Think of it this way...for years there was no rule on how many clubs a guy could carry.

 

But when mass-produced clubs became readily available, and when the varieties of clubs began to grow, people started carrying more clubs.

 

It got to the point that the USGA and R&A decided something must be done or else it's just going to get worse to the point that people will be carrying a special club for every situation.  Instead of playing a different type of shot from different conditions (a technique/skill that many would argue is essential to the game) they'd just pull out a special club and let the club do the work that, in the past, golfers themselves had to do.

 

So even though there had NEVER in the history of the game been a rule specifying how many clubs you can carry, they implemented one.

You can argue that they're a little late on squashing anchored putting in your opinion, but it's not logical to say because they never banned the anchored stroke before, they shouldn't do it now.  There's a first time for EVERY rule in EVERY sport.  And prior to EVERY rule, there's a period where people were doing the exact same thing but it was legal.  Stating this is NOT an argument for why any rule should not exist, because to assume that position is to hold that NO rules should exist unless they were proposed when the game was invented.

post #1347 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingkat1954 View Post

I agree with you.

I guess I donot see where the "anchored putter" style is either a detrement to the game, or needs to be banned. That's all.

 

I donot argue that the USGA is the authority on the rules. I just am puzzled by this instance. I think they are too late for the change. But its their ability to interpret the rules.

 

Adam Scott agrees:

“Why now?” “Why did you decide now when there’s no compelling evidence?
“Statements are thrown out like, ‘They’re good players, they’ll be all right.’ Well, hang on a second. Tim (Clark) has spent thousands of hours practicing a method that is allowed. Keegan Bradley has spent thousands of hours practicing, rehearsing this method that’s been allowed. How do you just cut the legs out from us over your view that you don’t like seeing a junior putt (by anchoring)?”
 

post #1348 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingkat1954 View Post

I guess I donot see where the "anchored putter" style is either a detrement to the game, or needs to be banned. That's all.

I tend to agree with this.  I get both sides of the argument, and I'm fine with whatever they do, I just don't think they really need to make the change.

post #1349 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

I tend to agree with this.  I get both sides of the argument, and I'm fine with whatever they do, I just don't think they really need to make the change.

 

In my eyes it had to be done years ago.  In my view it's not golfing.  That's just me.  It looks and feels like cheating to me.  I view it the same way I'd view double-dribbling in basketball if there weren't a rule against it.  It limits the skill necessary to perform a specific function that is integral to the sport...or that I find integral to the sport.  Others are free to disagree with any of that, but the point is that IF you see it that way (which apparently the R&A and possibly the USGA do), then it has to be done and it was likely a huge mistake to not do it earlier.

post #1350 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingkat1954 View Post

      While I wholeheartedly agree with you, I guess I see "Intent " to go around the rules rather than innocent action. I know, ignorance is no excuse..........and yes, the rules SHOULD apply to professionals, its their livelihood.

I also remember a few years ago when Palmer endorsed the ERC3 driver? The USGA said it did not conform(?) but Palmer said he thought it was a good club for recreational golfing?

I agree with Palmer. Recreational golf it is.

 

I appreciate your thoughts. I just wish we could all sit around the "19th Hole"and converse some more. First round is on me!

 

But Palmer just made it clear in is pre-tourney presser that he is NOT for different rules for the pros and for the rest of us, so allowing that driver would have been for everyone.  Yet he also has made it clear that he thinks distance is a problem.  His solution is a scaled back ball (across the board - not just for the pros), but putting a limit on clubs is another valid approach.  Arnold got caught between a rock and hard place, in that there was a conflict between when he thought was best for the game conflicted with his obligations to one of his sponsors. 

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