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Anchored Putters Rules Change (Effective January 1, 2016) - Page 93

post #1657 of 1852

Glad its gone, though I think it should have been banned everywhere but the champions tour and senior golf to help players who truly have back problems at hose ages. My dad needs a long putter. He didn't like the idea, but it made the game much easier on him. Before I bought it fo him, he went about 2 months of not being able to Putt out last year, before I bought him a long putter, which gave him the ability to putt and play the tru game of golf again. Mind you my father will never compee or turn in a card, so he isn't who this is aimed at, but I can understand senior tours and mini senior leagues allowing it, and I think that would be perfectly ok because of the prevalence of back injuries in the population over 50.

 

That, or make Humn Growth Hormone legal, and let these people truly heal (and look and feel younger).

post #1658 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApocG10 View Post

Glad its gone, though I think it should have been banned everywhere but the champions tour and senior golf to help players who truly have back problems at hose ages. My dad needs a long putter. He didn't like the idea, but it made the game much easier on him. Before I bought it fo him, he went about 2 months of not being able to Putt out last year, before I bought him a long putter, which gave him the ability to putt and play the tru game of golf again. Mind you my father will never compee or turn in a card, so he isn't who this is aimed at, but I can understand senior tours and mini senior leagues allowing it, and I think that would be perfectly ok because of the prevalence of back injuries in the population over 50.

 

That, or make Humn Growth Hormone legal, and let these people truly heal (and look and feel younger).

 

Seems like another misunderstanding.

 

Anyone will still be able to use a long putter. They won't need to bend over.

They just won't be able to anchor it.

post #1659 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulesman View Post

 

Seems like another misunderstanding.

 

Anyone will still be able to use a long putter. They won't need to bend over.

They just won't be able to anchor it.

 

 

Oh, I know that, but at 56, and when he will never be turning in a card, (he never has, he plays for fun) I doubt he will ever stop anchoring because a governing body he has nothing to do with tells him he shouldn't. He doesn't ever compete, bet, or anything like that. Golf is a twice a week fun time for him, he doesn't take it as seriously as most of us do. He follows the rules to the best of his abilities in most areas, but he isn't gonna give up anchoring because USGA says he should. Neither will the rest of his 55+ yo friends who play with him on sunday morning. Tuesdays he plays with my brother and I, and my dads best friend. Thats his weekly golf, and they rarely even keeps score, let alone hand in cards.

 

I mark his scores when we play, but he has never once asked what his score was.

 

I have to say though, now that I bought him the Scotty broomstick putter, he is a better putter than he has ever been before (after getting used to it). So yes, I do think they give an advantage and should be gone from the PGA, Euro, and mini-tours forever.

post #1660 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApocG10 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulesman View Post

 

Seems like another misunderstanding.

 

Anyone will still be able to use a long putter. They won't need to bend over.

They just won't be able to anchor it.

 

 

Oh, I know that, but at 56, and when he will never be turning in a card, (he never has, he plays for fun) I doubt he will ever stop anchoring because a governing body he has nothing to do with tells him he shouldn't...

 

That's fine, but I read your post the same way Rulesman did - that you were saying the anchoring ban somehow penalizes people with bad backs. If you understand that anchoring has no relation to how far you can or cannot bend over, then why do you believe anchoring should not be banned in the Champions tour?

post #1661 of 1852

This angle has been presented by others and I still don't buy the "putting hurts my back so I need a long putter".

Those who agree with my opinion have asked the same thing I'll ask (yet again)...

If you can't bend over to putt, how can you bend over to chip or hit a wedge?  For all those who claim they can't bend over, please post a video of your wedge shots (DTL) alongside a video of you putting with a "traditional" putting style (also DTL).  I'm pretty sure, since the length of those clubs is nearly identical, the bend in the waist will be just as close.

The ONLY argument that I've been able to buy into is that people with back problems are unable to practice traditional putting for any significant length of time.  But to say it's the only way they can play the game...I just don't get it.

 

What exactly am I missing?

post #1662 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave67az View Post

This angle has been presented by others and I still don't buy the "putting hurts my back so I need a long putter".

Those who agree with my opinion have asked the same thing I'll ask (yet again)...

If you can't bend over to putt, how can you bend over to chip or hit a wedge?  For all those who claim they can't bend over, please post a video of your wedge shots (DTL) alongside a video of you putting with a "traditional" putting style (also DTL).  I'm pretty sure, since the length of those clubs is nearly identical, the bend in the waist will be just as close.

The ONLY argument that I've been able to buy into is that people with back problems are unable to practice traditional putting for any significant length of time.  But to say it's the only way they can play the game...I just don't get it.

 

What exactly am I missing?

Nothing.  It's a dumb argument.  Most people who anchor don't bend over any less than your average standard length putter.  One particular fundamental that these people seem to be forgetting is that you still want to try and get your eyes over the ball.  All of the pros who use long or short putters (except Keegan, but he's a weirdo) still gets their eyes over the line of the putt.  The only difference is where your two hands are, not what angle your back is bent at.

 

PS.  I have a long history of back problems - herniated discs in the lower - and have done everything under the sun to try and remedy it including several steroid epidurals, and even quitting golf for awhile.  As far as my back is concerned, putting is the least of my concerns.

post #1663 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave67az View Post

If you can't bend over to putt, how can you bend over to chip or hit a wedge?

 

My point is (and not saying you missed it, just restating it), it's not even a question of bending over.  There is nothing that will prevent golfers from bending over as little or as much as they want.  It's the anchoring that's banned, not the length of the putter.  And there is simply no additional strain put on the back when you move your hands a centimeter away from where they were before.   That's why I'm still trying to figure out why some people think the new rule penalizes people with bad backs.

post #1664 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApocG10 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulesman View Post

 

Seems like another misunderstanding.

 

Anyone will still be able to use a long putter. They won't need to bend over.

They just won't be able to anchor it.

 

 

Oh, I know that, but at 56, and when he will never be turning in a card, (he never has, he plays for fun) I doubt he will ever stop anchoring because a governing body he has nothing to do with tells him he shouldn't. He doesn't ever compete, bet, or anything like that. Golf is a twice a week fun time for him, he doesn't take it as seriously as most of us do. He follows the rules to the best of his abilities in most areas, but he isn't gonna give up anchoring because USGA says he should. Neither will the rest of his 55+ yo friends who play with him on sunday morning. Tuesdays he plays with my brother and I, and my dads best friend. Thats his weekly golf, and they rarely even keeps score, let alone hand in cards.

 

I mark his scores when we play, but he has never once asked what his score was.

 

I have to say though, now that I bought him the Scotty broomstick putter, he is a better putter than he has ever been before (after getting used to it). So yes, I do think they give an advantage and should be gone from the PGA, Euro, and mini-tours forever.

 

I'm 66, I've had a bad back for 30 years, and don't use that as an excuse for anchoring my putter.  As you say, some of us take the game more seriously.    

post #1665 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

I'm 66, I've had a bad back for 30 years, and don't use that as an excuse for anchoring my putter.  As you say, some of us take the game more seriously.    


Didi you also have a cancerous growth pushing against your spine removed in an operation that could have left you paralyzed? Not all back injuries are equal (and not saying yours isn't).

post #1666 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApocG10 View Post


Didi you also have a cancerous growth pushing against your spine removed in an operation that could have left you paralyzed? Not all back injuries are equal (and not saying yours isn't).

 

Again...if you can swing a wedge, you can putt traditionally.  And until someone posts a video or gives an explanation of why this isn't true, I'm pretty sure none of us are buying it (my apologies if a few of you disagree).

 

This isn't some "my medical condition is worse than yours" contest.

 

Having said that, if you tell me your back is so bad you can't even bend over to swing a wedge, and you have to have your clubs modified so you can play standing straight up, okay, I might buy that you need a longer putter.  And you can do what every other golfer does who wants an exemption for medical reasons--fill out the application.  And if you're not playing "for realz" and you're just out recreationally, not reporting scores for a handicap, then do what you want.  But even if your back is THAT bad, you can't claim you need to anchor because there are plenty of "broomstickers" who have explained exactly how you can put non-anchored with a long putter.

post #1667 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApocG10 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

I'm 66, I've had a bad back for 30 years, and don't use that as an excuse for anchoring my putter.  As you say, some of us take the game more seriously.    


Didi you also have a cancerous growth pushing against your spine removed in an operation that could have left you paralyzed? Not all back injuries are equal (and not saying yours isn't).

 

No, but you never even hinted that this was the cause prior to this post.  Lots more people have back trouble unrelated to major surgery than those who do.  

 

I'm not even sure just what started my problem.  It first manifested itself in a significant manner back in the early 80's when I was a whitewater kayaker (and still in my 30's).  It reached the point where I had to give up the sport because one day of paddling left me a hunched over cripple for a week afterward.  To this day I can't sit in that position with my legs straight out in front of me for more than a few minutes at a time.  

 

I also can't spend more than 15 minutes at a time putting or the back starts to tighten up, so I just don't practice it much aside from pre round warmups, but I still get by.  Different situations, different solutions.

post #1668 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave67az View Post

 

Again...if you can swing a wedge, you can putt traditionally.  And until someone posts a video or gives an explanation of why this isn't true, I'm pretty sure none of us are buying it (my apologies if a few of you disagree).

 

This isn't some "my medical condition is worse than yours" contest.

 

Having said that, if you tell me your back is so bad you can't even bend over to swing a wedge, and you have to have your clubs modified so you can play standing straight up, okay, I might buy that you need a longer putter.  And you can do what every other golfer does who wants an exemption for medical reasons--fill out the application.  And if you're not playing "for realz" and you're just out recreationally, not reporting scores for a handicap, then do what you want.  But even if your back is THAT bad, you can't claim you need to anchor because there are plenty of "broomstickers" who have explained exactly how you can put non-anchored with a long putter.

 

 

All of my dads irons are the same length, and quite upright so he can always make the same stance, and no, he cannot make a full swing anymore. More 3/4 back, 3/4 forward. It bothers him, because he has always been athletic, but he does what he needs to play.

 

Anyway, none of that has anything to do with the idea that my dad could care less about USGA/CPGA rules. If it wasn't a part of membership, I doubt he would even join either organization. He desn't play the game for the reasons many of us do. THats why he loves to watch me compete, because he can't.

post #1669 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApocG10 View Post

 

 

All of my dads irons are the same length, and quite upright so he can always make the same stance, and no, he cannot make a full swing anymore. More 3/4 back, 3/4 forward. It bothers him, because he has always been athletic, but he does what he needs to play.

 

Anyway, none of that has anything to do with the idea that my dad could care less about USGA/CPGA rules. If it wasn't a part of membership, I doubt he would even join either organization. He desn't play the game for the reasons many of us do. THats why he loves to watch me compete, because he can't.

 

That makes more sense then.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a guy on the Senior Tour who has that problem, though.

It's for this reason that I have to disagree with the opinion that they should allow anchoring on that Tour.

 

The USGA already has established procedures for this situation.  And since medical conditions are always unique to the individual (something many docs still need to learn) the USGA evaluates each situation based on its own merit.  No need to add more rules or make a blanket statement that "okay, since some guys have back problems everyone gets to use an anchored stroke".

 

http://www.usga.org/equipment/medical/Equipment-Testing/

post #1670 of 1852
PGA TOUR Policy Board Allows USGA’s Ban on Anchored Strokes
Rule 14-1b will go into effect in PGA TOUR competition beginning January 1, 2016
 
PONTE VEDRA BEACH, FL (July 1, 2013) – The PGA TOUR Policy Board today acknowledged that the USGA’s ban on anchored strokes, known as Rule 14-1b, will apply to PGA TOUR competitions beginning on January 1, 2016. In making this acknowledgement, the Policy Board also passed a resolution strongly recommending, along with the PGA of America, that the USGA consider extending the time period in which amateurs would be permitted to utilize anchored strokes beyond January 1, 2016.
 
PGA TOUR competitions are conducted in accordance with the USGA Rules of Golf. However, the Policy Board reserves the right to make modifications for PGA TOUR competitions if it deems it appropriate.
 
“In making its decision, the Policy Board recognized that there are still varying opinions among our membership, but ultimately concluded that while it is an important issue, a ban on anchored strokes would not fundamentally affect a strong presentation of our competitions or the overall success of the PGA TOUR,” PGA TOUR Commissioner Tim Finchem said. “The Board also was of the opinion that having a single set of rules on acceptable strokes applicable to all professional competitions worldwide was desirable and would avoid confusion.”
 
The USGA and R&A jointly announced the proposed ban on anchored strokes in November 2012; then, following a “comment period,” the governing bodies announced on May 21, 2013 that the ban would go into effect on January 1, 2016.
 
With respect to golf at the recreational level, the Policy Board noted that the USGA followed a similar course with respect to groove configurations on golf clubs in 2008 where the new groove configurations rule became applicable for elite play in 2010, while the rule does not apply to recreational play until 2024.
 
“The Policy Board continues to believe that extending the time period the ban would go into effect for amateurs would be beneficial for golf participation and the overall health of the game,” Finchem added.
 
“Although the Board has elected to follow the USGA in this case at the elite level, it continues to be mindful of its responsibility to review future rule changes that might be adopted by the USGA in order to determine whether they should apply to PGA TOUR competitions,” Finchem said. “It is not inconceivable that there may come a time in the future when the Policy Board determines that a rule adopted by the USGA, including in the area of equipment, may not be in the best interests of the PGA TOUR and that a local rule eliminating or modifying such a USGA rule may be appropriate.
 
“Having said that, we have been assured by the USGA that as we move forward we will have an open and effective communication process on a number of levels with the decision makers at the USGA,” Finchem added. “Importantly, this will include a direct communication between the Commissioner’s Office of the PGA TOUR and the USGA Executive Committee. Such a process will ensure that our position is fully and carefully considered and addressed in future rule making.”
post #1671 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post


 
...
In making this acknowledgement, the Policy Board also passed a resolution strongly recommending, along with the PGA of America, that the USGA consider extending the time period in which amateurs would be permitted to utilize anchored strokes beyond January 1, 2016.
...

...
With respect to golf at the recreational level, the Policy Board noted that the USGA followed a similar course with respect to groove configurations on golf clubs in 2008 where the new groove configurations rule became applicable for elite play in 2010, while the rule does not apply to recreational play until 2024.
 
“The Policy Board continues to believe that extending the time period the ban would go into effect for amateurs would be beneficial for golf participation and the overall health of the game,” Finchem added.
...

 

Does anyone else find it ironic that first we have an organization (PGA TOUR) whose members have complained that amateur organizations shouldn't be making rules for professional golfers, and now we have the same professional organization recommending rules for amateur golfers?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm really glad it sounds like the bifurcation talk will be over for a while.  But I'm probably missing something...I didn't know they represented amateurs as well as pro golfers.

 

Even if Finchem were right, that some people will give up the game if the USGA doesn't give anchorers a few more years, does he really think this is going to impact the PGA TOUR, much less the overall game of golf?  Something tells if you're willing to give up the game because you can't anchor, we never would have seen you on the Tour anyway, especially considering you'd HAVE to give it up as soon as you turned Pro.

 

Am I being too cynical?

post #1672 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave67az View Post

 

Does anyone else find it ironic that first we have an organization (PGA TOUR) whose members have complained that amateur organizations shouldn't be making rules for professional golfers, and now we have the same professional organization recommending rules for amateur golfers?

 

 

I don't think so.  The USGA should not be, and does not, make rules for the pros outside of its own tournaments.  It makes rules for the amateurs, and perhaps recommends that the Tour follow.  The Tour isn't making any rules for amateurs, only recommendations.

 

Pro golf and amateur golf will always be interrelated.  They feed off each other and interested in what the other is doing.  

post #1673 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave67az View Post

 

Does anyone else find it ironic that first we have an organization (PGA TOUR) whose members have complained that amateur organizations shouldn't be making rules for professional golfers, and now we have the same professional organization recommending rules for amateur golfers?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm really glad it sounds like the bifurcation talk will be over for a while.  But I'm probably missing something...I didn't know they represented amateurs as well as pro golfers.

 

Even if Finchem were right, that some people will give up the game if the USGA doesn't give anchorers a few more years, does he really think this is going to impact the PGA TOUR, much less the overall game of golf?  Something tells if you're willing to give up the game because you can't anchor, we never would have seen you on the Tour anyway, especially considering you'd HAVE to give it up as soon as you turned Pro.

 

Am I being too cynical?

 

Finchem is wrong, and even if he's just a little bit right, what effect will there be on the game if 2 weekend players quit?  Does it really matter in the great scheme?  The way I read the press release, he mostly doesn't want to appear to be surrendering, which is after all what he's doing.  d2_doh.gif

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

I don't think so.  The USGA should not be, and does not, make rules for the pros outside of its own tournaments.  It makes rules for the amateurs, and perhaps recommends that the Tour follow.  The Tour isn't making any rules for amateurs, only recommendations.

 

Pro golf and amateur golf will always be interrelated.  They feed off each other and interested in what the other is doing.  

 

 

The UGSA and the R&A (Why do you guys always lay all of your comments on the USGA alone?) maintain the Rules of Golf for the whole world, not just for amateur golf.  To this point no professional tour has made it's own rules, and if this issue doesn't do it, we probably will never see it.  The Rules of Golf are identical for pro and amateur alike, in the US in Eruope, in Asia, and every where in between.  The rule book I carry in my bag is exactly the same as the rule book Tiger should carry in his. 

post #1674 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave67az View Post

 

Does anyone else find it ironic that first we have an organization (PGA TOUR) whose members have complained that amateur organizations shouldn't be making rules for professional golfers, and now we have the same professional organization recommending rules for amateur golfers?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm really glad it sounds like the bifurcation talk will be over for a while.  But I'm probably missing something...I didn't know they represented amateurs as well as pro golfers.

 

Even if Finchem were right, that some people will give up the game if the USGA doesn't give anchorers a few more years, does he really think this is going to impact the PGA TOUR, much less the overall game of golf?  Something tells if you're willing to give up the game because you can't anchor, we never would have seen you on the Tour anyway, especially considering you'd HAVE to give it up as soon as you turned Pro.

 

Am I being too cynical?

 

No. IMO.  I think this was damage control.  I think the corporate members of the Policy Board explained to Finchem just what a PR disaster this has been for the Tour, essentially saying that maybe the Tour should have easier rules than amateur golf.  So now they reverse field as if all along the issue was protecting amateur golfers, not their pro membership.  It is bunkum, but that is the world we live in.

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