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Anchored Putters Rules Change (Effective January 1, 2016) - Page 29

post #505 of 1852

Anyone want mine? Odyssey Dart :) ahaha  

 

I'm just glad I couldn't putt with the belly putter inside 7 feet but I could nail 12 footers crazy game

post #506 of 1852

From pgatour.com today:

 

Quote:

LA JOLLA, Calif. -- PGA TOUR Commissioner Tim Finchem spent the bulk of his press conference on Wednesday at the Farmers Insurance Open discussing the ban on anchored strokes proposed by the USGA and R&A.

 

Finchem was in California to attend Tuesday night's mandatory player meeting where Mike Davis, the executive director of the USGA, talked about the proposed new rule. According to the commissioner, the meeting was the beginning of a process where the TOUR will collect input and with consideration from the policy board, formulate a response.

 

Here are some highlights of the press conference.

 

On whether there are scenarios where the TOUR would not adopt the rule: "Technically there is that possibility. However, it certainly wouldn't be our objective. Our objective is to follow the rules and keep the rules together."

 

On the need to proceed cautiously: "If the governing bodies had said in 1965, like they did after Sam Snead came out and putted croquet style and a week later they changed the rule or whatever it was, if they had said, you know, this isn't consistent with historically the way you swing a club, so we're not going to allow it, nobody would have blinked an eye. ... But 40 years later, and the amount of play there is with that method, amateur and professional, it does affect a lot of people. So it's a very different kind of issue, and it stirs a lot of strong feelings. So consequently, it's a difficult situation.'

 

On whether the TOUR might implement the ban sooner than the proposed target of 2016: "Once you get past the question of the rule change, there is going to be a rule change; then you get into some of the details. One of which is the timing, and that's certainly a matter of discussion because, here again, on the one hand, if you're presenting the sport, you probably, my view would be to move it quicker, if it's going to happen because it continues to be a distraction if you don't. You have players on television, in front of galleries, playing with a method that has been outlawed, even though the enforcement date is later.  That's in and of itself the makings of a distraction. On the other hand, if you're a player who has grown up using that method, your livelihood depends on it, you probably are inclined to not want it to go into effect for a period of time. Here again, the issue is damned if you do, damned if you don't to some extent, so it needs to be thought through carefully."

 

On whether there is data to suggest anchored strokes provide a competitive advantage: "Virtually every player on the PGA TOUR at some point has spent time with anchoring method.  Some of them practice with anchoring method because it helps their stroke. They will tell you, it is a skill in of itself as putting as a whole. It's a different game.  We all know there are two games in golf, full swing and putting.  That within putting, anchoring, the anchoring method is a skill unto itself. It takes time, energy, effort, over a long period of time to develop that skill. But it doesn't necessarily give you a competitive advantage against the player who isn't using the method."

 

On potential lawsuits over the ban: "I haven't heard any specifics about any particular player or conceivably, I suppose, a manufacturer filing lawsuit, and I don't really worry about that kind of stuff. Lawsuits come and go and you have to deal with them, and they're painful and expensive, but I just don't know about that.  I think we're early in the process though, so, that could change."

 

I didn't actually hear the press conference, just saw this transcript, but found two points interesting:

 

1.  There is a "technical" possiblity of the PGA tour going against the USGA and actually not banning anchoring.  The stress is on "technically"  but he did leave the door open.

 

2.  He also talked about the possibility of implementing the rule sooner than the USGA rule goes into effect in 2016 to avoid "distractions."

 

Thoughts?

post #507 of 1852

That is pretty much what I saw yesterday on "Morning Drive".  A lot of "if's" and "maybes", but no real commitment to anything yet, and I wouldn't expect it this early.

post #508 of 1852

I heard the same.  It's an interesting debate because the feeling is the USGA will be minimally impacted by the rules change.  The PGA could be significantly impacted as this goes against their campaign to expand the sport and make golf easier and accessible for everyone.  

 

Both sides are looking to the PGA Tour for their decision as they could be the deciding factor on how this all turns out for the rest of us. 

post #509 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

I heard the same.  It's an interesting debate because the feeling is the USGA will be minimally impacted by the rules change.  The PGA could be significantly impacted as this goes against their campaign to expand the sport and make golf easier and accessible for everyone.  

 

Both sides are looking to the PGA Tour for their decision as they could be the deciding factor on how this all turns out for the rest of us. 

 

I don't think that's the situation at all.  The USGA and the R&A will make their decision on the Rule change, with input from the PGA, PGA Tour, European Tour, Japan Tour, and other national golf bodies etc.  It has been suggested that the PGA Tour is compelled to follow USGA Rules as part of a lawsuit settlement with Ping (over grooves).  I don't see how or why they would choose not to adhere to the Rules of golf.

post #510 of 1852

It is interesting that your list of the professional organisations who may have something to say only represents a very small proportion of players when compared to the number of amateurs represented by the national bodies. One would think that the former should have only a proportional influence.

 

As you suggest, the pros have good reason for choosing to play to the same rules as amateurs. They get enough stick from many for playing in better conditions as it is.

post #511 of 1852

Agree, and it's also interesting that all the belly-aching is coming from the professionals, the smallest portion of the golfers.

post #512 of 1852

Well, they do play for millions of dollars weekly, so it does kind of affect them. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogolf View Post

Agree, and it's also interesting that all the belly-aching is coming from the professionals, the smallest portion of the golfers.

post #513 of 1852

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

Well, they do play for millions of dollars weekly, so it does kind of affect them. 

 

 

Well, imo, just because they play for millions, instead of a $2 nassau, doesn't mean their opinion matters more than everyone else.  State you opinion (without whining) and play by the Rules.

post #514 of 1852

The point I think you're missing is the PGA Tour has the option to follow the USGA or not.  The PGA Tour is soliciting input from it's pro's to determine what the majority wants to do.  I don't hear anyone whining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogolf View Post

Well, imo, just because they play for millions, instead of a $2 nassau, doesn't mean their opinion matters more than everyone else.  State you opinion (without whining) and play by the Rules.

post #515 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

The point I think you're missing is the PGA Tour has the option to follow the USGA or not.  The PGA Tour is soliciting input from it's pro's to determine what the majority wants to do.  I don't hear anyone whining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogolf View Post

Well, imo, just because they play for millions, instead of a $2 nassau, doesn't mean their opinion matters more than everyone else.  State you opinion (without whining) and play by the Rules.

 

Then you aren't listening.  It's really no different than the groove roll back.  Those who can actually putt don't worry about it, and those who can't whine.  If the the Tour does go against the ruling bodies, it will be because the crybabies made more noise than the guys who can actually play golf.

post #516 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

Then you aren't listening.  It's really no different than the groove roll back.  Those who can actually putt don't worry about it, and those who can't whine.  If the the Tour does go against the ruling bodies, it will be because the crybabies made more noise than the guys who can actually play golf.

So, if the PGA goes against it, doesnt this make different rules for Pros vs amateurs? The same thing that has already been argued against..........

post #517 of 1852

I may have missed it, but from what I heard about the meeting the PGA Tour held earlier this week, there were some questions asked but no whining.  In the post meeting interviews it was stated the pro's kept it to questions only because they appreciated the PGA Tour reaching out and didn't feel it was an appropriate forum to speak out against the ban.   

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

Then you aren't listening.  It's really no different than the groove roll back.  Those who can actually putt don't worry about it, and those who can't whine.  If the the Tour does go against the ruling bodies, it will be because the crybabies made more noise than the guys who can actually play golf.

post #518 of 1852

Based on what I've read and heard, the speculation is if the PGA Tour goes against it, it may cause the USGA to re-evaluate since the PGA is also against the ban. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by meenman View Post

So, if the PGA goes against it, doesnt this make different rules for Pros vs amateurs? The same thing that has already been argued against..........

post #519 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

Based on what I've read and heard, the speculation is if the PGA Tour goes against it, it may cause the USGA to re-evaluate since the PGA is also against the ban. 

 

This isn't strictly a US situation, there are other golf bodies involved (R&A) and the final outcome will be universal.  As stated earlier, I believe the PGA Tour is compelled to follow the rules of golf as determined by the USGA as part of the settlement of an earlier lawsuit. 

post #520 of 1852

A different perspective. Pretty strong stuff from an industry big hitter!

 

http://scoregolf.com/blog/rick-young/2013/january/taking-a-stand

 

 

 

Quote:

Mark King had plenty of reasons to smile Thursday morning.

The affable CEO of TaylorMade-adidas Golf was up early for an appearance on Golf Channel's Morning Drive. He shook hands with PGA Merchandise Show attendees, signed a couple of autographs, took some pictures, and even received a hug from TMaG brand ambassador Natalie Gulbis. 

Minutes later, inside a private meeting room of the Orange County Convention Center a more serious King dropped a bomb.

During a very direct discussion focused on the proposed ban on anchoring, King said in no uncertain terms the following: the United States Golf Association (USGA) could become obsolete within 10 years; the PGA of America should step in, write its own set of rules with input from the PGA Tour then move beyond the USGA. He also said two sets of rules are coming whether the USGA likes it or not.

Mike Davis deserves equal time. The USGA's executive director will have the opportunity to respond to these comments if he so chooses. With that being said, the following is a transcript of our discussion with King.

SG: A few weeks ago the USGA and R&A came out with a proposed ban on anchor putting. Thoughts on the situation?

King: "The anchoring ban makes no sense to me at all. I mean I thought they were regulating equipment not how you use the equipment. So what happens when we find a new way to swing? Are they going to regulate or eliminate that? That's the problem I see. There doesn't seem to be any end to where the USGA wants to go. That to me is wrong. And you know me. I've been the biggest supporter of the USGA for 30 years. Whatever they've done we've gone along with. Now they've taken it too far."

SG: How do you see it playing out?

King: "I don't think this is an equipment issue. I think it’s a golfer issue. What I think needs to happen is the industry needs to come together without the USGA. Leave them out."

SG: That's pretty extreme.

King: "I know but it needs to be extreme. We have an industry that should be growing, it should be exciting, it should be fun and it’s not. And it’s not because the USGA won't let it. Now the USGA would tell you 'Oh, we don't have that power we only make the rules.' But the way this is constructed is the top of the pyramid is the USGA and until they support a new form of golf that is fun and engaging, nothing is going to change. Nothing."

SG: So what needs to happen?

King: "If I were running the PGA of America I would write my own set of rules. I'd do it with the PGA Tour. Right so then what would happen with the U.S. Open and those 11 tournaments? They would follow suit because they would have no choice. Because if they don't have any players they don't have any tournament and if they don't have any tournament they don't have any money."

SG: The term rules bifurcation applies right?

King: "It makes sense to me. I don't like it but I think we need to do it. Absolutely. I think we need to tell golfers you can play with a 15" cup, with 20 clubs in your bag, by playing winter rules, taking a gimme and saying that's cool. It's fine. It's okay to do that. Enjoy it."

SG: You sound scared for the future of the game. Are you?

King: “No not yet. But the conversations are intensifying. If we don't do something different and new and creative then the game is in trouble. If we weren't having these conversations right now then I would say yes, it’s in trouble. Here's a prediction: the USGA within 10 years will be a non-entity, they will be a non-factor in golf because they are choosing to be on the outside and no one is signing up for what they represent. The industry is going to move away from them and pass them. They're obsolete. I hate to say that but that's their behaviour.”

SG: Will you express all this to Mike (Davis)?

King: "I'm going to see him on this trip. Yes, in the next day or two we'll talk.”

SG: I assume it will be a fairly forthright Mark King conversation?

King: "You know me. They are only ones I'm capable of having. And look I'm not saying that's what I want. I want the USGA to come out and say for the good of the game were going to do some things whether they are going to expand to have tournament rules and non-tournament rules. Then it could still be sponsored by the USGA. And not only do we have two different rules but this is the way we want you to play the game so you can have fun. Then guess what? If you and me and (John) Kawaja and (Sean) Toulon go out on a Saturday morning we can say 'Okay boys, today were playing tournament rules.' It's not very complicated. It doesn't have to be."

SG: How do you go forward from this as a business then? 

King: “What we’re (TMaG) going to do whether there is bifurcation or not is we will continue to make long putters for golfers. If they roll the ball back we're not going to roll our ball back. We will for a tournament ball but we’re still going to sell you a ball you can play. Like I said, two sets of rules are coming. Whether they're sanctioned or not we are not going to stop making long putters and I'm not going to stop playing one. I won't. By the time it happens the USGA is either going to have to get with it or stand off somewhere all by themselves. And look I'm still not convinced the PGA Tour is going to completely embrace the long putter rule. I'm not. So what's going to happen? If Tim Finchem says he's going to use all the USGA rules EXCEPT the long putter rule there you go. You have two sets of rules. That's where it’s going and it’s coming fast. The sadness I have for the USGA is instead of leading this they're fighting it and for what reason? I don't know.”

SG: So what's the message from your perspective?

King: “The whole world, not just golf, the whole world is about innovation and new and exciting and consumers only want what's new and exciting. They don't want last year, they want new, innovative cool stuff and if we’re going to stop that or limit that we’re going to kill the industry not just equipment but the playing of the game. So if the USGA doesn't jump on board and lead this new way of golf, like I said, they're just going to be obsolete. And if Finchem goes ahead and leaves the long putter in, it’s just the start. The USGA is going over the edge.”

post #521 of 1852

It's been universal because the R&A and USGA have cooperated to retain a universal set of rules, but there's no mandate except for possibly the Olympics.  If you read what Stretch wrote I'd say the PGA Tour and PGA don't believe they are compelled to follow the rules of the USGA.  

 

There is a basic set of rules in professional sports that are shared between the professionals and non-professionals but the pro's play by their own rules in football, baseball, hockey, etc. so there's no reason this couldn't happen in golf as well. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogolf View Post

 

This isn't strictly a US situation, there are other golf bodies involved (R&A) and the final outcome will be universal.  As stated earlier, I believe the PGA Tour is compelled to follow the rules of golf as determined by the USGA as part of the settlement of an earlier lawsuit. 

post #522 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogolf View Post

 

 

Well, imo, just because they play for millions, instead of a $2 nassau, doesn't mean their opinion matters more than everyone else. 

 

I may disagree with them, but I do think their opinion matters more than the average person or even the average golfer.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post

A different perspective. Pretty strong stuff from an industry big hitter!

 

http://scoregolf.com/blog/rick-young/2013/january/taking-a-stand

 

 

 

 

I read the entire thing and the only reason he offered for the USGA becoming "obsolete" in 10 years is a subjective one about them being on the "outside".  His earlier reasoning about why the ruling is wrong is just another straw-man argument that has been debunked over and over.  There is really nothing strong about that interview and the guy comes off as hurting his credibility on the subject because the rest of it is speculation based on uncertainty and fear, straight out of a political strategists playbook.

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