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Anchored Putters Rules Change (Effective January 1, 2016) - Page 44

post #775 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by WWBDD View Post

 

I've never seen a long putter, anchored or not, being used other than in serious competition.

And I see a ton of them out there - could be different circles. They are prevalent on the private courses around here.

 

I highly doubt that the average weekend hack that you see on a public course uses one.

post #776 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by TourSpoon View Post

His Am data and rationale are really weak. 

 

Yeah.  The trouble is that anyone watching and not doing some research is going to just assume that he's right.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by meenman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by WWBDD View Post

 

I've never seen a long putter, anchored or not, being used other than in serious competition.

And I see a ton of them out there - could be different circles. They are prevalent on the private courses around here.

 

I highly doubt that the average weekend hack that you see on a public course uses one.

 

You really are a gem aren't you?  The only players on public courses are weekend hacks, huh?  That's just about as snobbish an attitude as I've ever seen.  I'm not even going to dignify it with more of a comment that that.  What you have to say isn't worth the time to read, much less respond to.  You are now on my ignore list.

post #777 of 1852

 The PGA Tour has notified golf's governing bodies that it sees no reason to ban anchored putting strokes.

Finchem says the tour is merely offering its view, and that it would be a mistake for the game to outlaw such a stroke.

post #778 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

Yeah.  The trouble is that anyone watching and not doing some research is going to just assume that he's right.

 

 

You really are a gem aren't you?  The only players on public courses are weekend hacks, huh?  That's just about as snobbish an attitude as I've ever seen.  I'm not even going to dignify it with more of a comment that that.  What you have to say isn't worth the time to read, much less respond to.  You are now on my ignore list.

Wow - talk about reading too much into something. I am sensing a serious inferiority complex here.

 

What I was getting at is, you are less likely to see the guy that plays once a month or less buying a long/belly putter. (maybe because a guy who plays that little has any reason to join a private course?)

post #779 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by meenman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

Yeah.  The trouble is that anyone watching and not doing some research is going to just assume that he's right.

 

 

You really are a gem aren't you?  The only players on public courses are weekend hacks, huh?  That's just about as snobbish an attitude as I've ever seen.  I'm not even going to dignify it with more of a comment that that.  What you have to say isn't worth the time to read, much less respond to.  You are now on my ignore list.

Wow - talk about reading too much into something. I am sensing a serious inferiority complex here.

 

What I was getting at is, you are less likely to see the guy that plays once a month or less buying a long/belly putter. (maybe because a guy who plays that little has any reason to join a private course?)

Maybe you could think about what you are saying occasionally.  You do seem to show little respect for most of the people who post here.  But unignored again for now, and sorry if I read something that you didn't intend. z6_surrender.gif

 

I was a member of a men's tournament club at a public muni for 22 years until I moved out of the country a year ago.  250 members, and while not all were polished golfers, none were "weekend hacks".  All played by the Rules of Golf, all played the game as seriously as life and family allowed, and not a single one used an anchored putting stroke.  

 

That "hack" term can swing both ways.  I see the anchoring as a way to avoid practicing or bothering to learn how to putt correctly.  It's a crutch for an otherwise shaky putting stroke.

post #780 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

Maybe you could think about what you are saying occasionally.  You do seem to show little respect for most of the people who post here.  But unignored again for now, and sorry if I read something that you didn't intend. z6_surrender.gif

 

I was a member of a men's tournament club at a public muni for 22 years until I moved out of the country a year ago.  250 members, and while not all were polished golfers, none were "weekend hacks".  All played by the Rules of Golf, all played the game as seriously as life and family allowed, and not a single one used an anchored putting stroke.  

 

That "hack" term can swing both ways.  I see the anchoring as a way to avoid practicing or bothering to learn how to putt correctly.  It's a crutch for an otherwise shaky putting stroke.

I am not going to say that Finchem's 20% number is 100% accurate, but I also think the percentage of golfers that anchor is closer to his number than the 1% everyone else seems to want to quote.

 

There are 4 different private courses that I play somewhat frequently (including my own.) There is a huge percentage of these people I see with broom sticker putters (see very few belly.) Maybe it is an age thing, regional thing or maybe it is monkey see, monkey do.

 

Now if I play one of the local public courses, I may see one other guy with an anchored stroke. Perception is all based on what you *see.*

post #781 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by meenman View Post

I am not going to say that Finchem's 20% number is 100% accurate, but I also think the percentage of golfers that anchor is closer to his number than the 1% everyone else seems to want to quote.

I'd take that bet. It's not 11% or higher.
post #782 of 1852

I guess it must be based on the area you play in.  I have played all over the Central Valley of California, at Public and Private courses and on the Golf Channel Amateur Tour and have only seen 1 person who anchors in the last 2 years.  I must be playing during the non anchoring tee times.

post #783 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post


I'd take that bet. It's not 11% or higher.

The problem is, that number can be skewed any which way. Do we count people that own golf clubs, people who play only once a month, or people that play weekly or more?

 

The number gets higher when based on higher frequency players - hell, if we only counted golfers that paid USGA dues, that 20% might be low.

post #784 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by meenman View Post

The problem is, that number can be skewed any which way. Do we count people that own golf clubs, people who play only once a month, or people that play weekly or more?

 

The number gets higher when based on higher frequency players - hell, if we only counted golfers that paid USGA dues, that 20% might be low.

 

I don't think there's any real way you can measure it to get 20%. And as was pointed out, if the die-hards are the ones anchoring at the "high rates" of 10% (probably still too high, but let's go with it), then they're not going to quit the game.

 

The number is barely even 30% at some PGA Tour events. It's not 20% using any reasonable measure of everyday golfers. Not even close.

post #785 of 1852
It would be interesting to see the data for new putters bought in the last 6 months, 1 yr, 2 yr, 3 yr etc when broken down by long vs. conventional. Obviously, this will give some idea of future trends but won't reflect actual putter usage out there (by hackers or otherwise). I know I know, buying a long putter doesn't necessarily mean you're going to anchor but the chances are high. All analyses have their limitations ..... :)

Maybe the WSJ got its numbers from someone at the PGA. Finchem should be asked to explain his source if it's a serious part of his argument.

At any rate Finchem seemed to acknowledge the serious risk to the integrity of the game of golf if the PGA Tour splits from USGA and the R&A on the matter. Huge blunder if they do.
post #786 of 1852
Meenman: I think he said "amateur golfers" - in which case I agree with Erik - 20% is absurdly high.
post #787 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas View Post

Meenman: I think he said "amateur golfers" - in which case I agree with Erik - 20% is absurdly high.

 

Once again, it depends on how you classify *golfers* - the once a year crowd is probably at 0.0001%, the number is significantly higher with higher frequency golfers.

post #788 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas View Post

It would be interesting to see the data for new putters bought in the last 6 months, 1 yr, 2 yr, 3 yr etc when broken down by long vs. conventional. Obviously, this will give some idea of future trends but won't reflect actual putter usage out there (by hackers or otherwise). I know I know, buying a long putter doesn't necessarily mean you're going to anchor but the chances are high. All analyses have their limitations ..... :)

 

Nor does it mean that they'll actually continue to use the putter.

 

I also don't think the USGA ever said "it is not an advantage" or anything - I think they simply said that's not the reason they're looking to ban the practice.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by meenman View Post

Once again, it depends on how you classify *golfers* - the once a year crowd is probably at 0.0001%, the number is significantly higher with higher frequency golfers.

 

And as I said, I don't think you'll ever get to 20% via any valid method, unless you literally hand select a small sample size (as you've done meenman).

 

BTW, Johnny Miller reversed what he said the other day on the State of the Game show. Peh. Lame. I don't care what your opinion is, but don't change it based solely on the company of who is around you at the moment, three days later.

post #789 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

 

BTW, Johnny Miller reversed what he said the other day on the State of the Game show. Peh. Lame. I don't care what your opinion is, but don't change it based solely on the company of who is around you at the moment, three days later.

Well, at least there is one thing we can agree on.

post #790 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by meenman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post


I'd take that bet. It's not 11% or higher.

The problem is, that number can be skewed any which way. Do we count people that own golf clubs, people who play only once a month, or people that play weekly or more?

 

The number gets higher when based on higher frequency players - hell, if we only counted golfers that paid USGA dues, that 20% might be low.

 

I think that an honest poll across the entire spectrum of players from pro, through club pro, advanced amateur and casual, you'd be lucky to find 5%.   I think that too many think as you do that if you aren't a member of a club, you aren't a serious player, and that just isn't the case.   In that areas where I've always played, the public golfers far outnumber the private ones.   Certainly most public courses in the Denver area outstrip the private ones in total rounds played, mostly because they draw on a larger player base.  My home course is as busy on Tuesday or Wednesday morning as it is on Saturday morning.  On Wednesday and Thursday afternoon it can be booked almost solidly right up until 4PM, although not as many full foursomes, and Friday is now considered part of the weekend, both for green fees and for number of players on the course.  Public golf, at least in Denver, is alive and well with a large base of avid players, yet you rarely see a long putter.

post #791 of 1852
hmmmm, does this mean if I pick up a long putter I'll join the elite????

Meenman: my own personal experience is that buying a putter is strongly (Hazard Ratio = 10.5) and significantly (p <0.001) associated with NEVER using that putter again after a period of 6 months.
post #792 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

  I think that too many think as you do that if you aren't a member of a club, you aren't a serious player, and that just isn't the case. 

 

This is where you read too much into me again. A serious player to me is anyone that generally plays once a week, be it private, public or muni. The difference is at a private club, I see the exact same people every week - with a public, you will have the same base, but the once a month and once a year golfers are mixed in (and there are zero percent of them anchoring.)

 

Havent you been gone over a year now? Maybe the long putter disease has struck your old course and you just dont know it.e2_whistling.gif

 

I dont doubt that the public courses get more play - the only reason our privates see more rounds than the surrounding public courses is due to trail fee private cart owners (which are not bringing in extra revenue - they just make sure they get their $$$ worth)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas View Post

hmmmm, does this mean if I pick up a long putter I'll join the elite????

Meenman: my own personal experience is that buying a putter is strongly (Hazard Ratio = 10.5) and significantly (p <0.001) associated with NEVER using that putter again after a period of 6 months.

 

Now you are just confusing me - try again in English.

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