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Anchored Putters Rules Change (Effective January 1, 2016) - Page 52

post #919 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

The USGA does a *wee* bit more than have meetings.

 

I think this is a great point. the USGA does a lot of good things, they have many great support programs. I am  fan of the organization...just think this putter thing is a mistake.

post #920 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave67az View Post

People don't exercise free speech simply because they can.  They do it to express a point of view with the hopes that others will understand and support their position.  Do you really need this explained to you, as you've made it seem?

Agreed. The latest comments from the PGA Tour and members are now more calculated. The free wheeling statements months ago have now become neutral. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

Or bowing to sponsor pressure.  We will probably never know, so it' isn't really worth debating.  He was in favor, now he's neutral.  His latest comments didn't exactly show wholehearted approval of the Tour's position.

This is when we learn that Free Speech could really have a price associated with it! 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave67az View Post

 

Am I the only one who reads this as though the PGA Tour is simply asking for those who currently use the method to be grandfathered in?

Or setting up the Champion's Tour guys to have their own rules. IMO, this could be the real reason. Remember that the Champion's Tour allure is that its really about drawing on former Tour stars power through their fan base. Nostalgia plays a huge role and when it comes down to it, the people come out to see the stars of yesterday. This Tour has a big market share that I haven't heard many talk about. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

Actually, now that you mention it, I think it could totally be taken that way.  What does everybody think of that possibility?  At first thought, it seems like a potential mess to me ... but maybe it's a good compromise?  I don't know.

Total mess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NM Golf View Post


Talk about opening a can of worms. No way could they grandfather in these players. This is how it will go down...The USGA isn't going to back down and they will institute the ban on January 1, 2016. The PGA Tour will abide by the ruling because it is the right thing to do. Players on the Tour currently using anchored putters will switch to non-anchored strokes and they will be fine or they will go the way of the buffalo. New stars will come in, other players will disappear. Its not like someone on Tour has never vanished like a fart in the wind before, anyone remember David Duval? e4_tumbleweed.gif

 

And poor me I will grudgingly switch back to my normal length putter, but it will at least give me a good reason to buy a new club.

 

I really don't see this as any kind of power play, I don't see any ulterior motives by anyone is this argument. We have a difference in opinion as to what is best for the game and nothing more. One side thinks anchoring the putter is bad, the other side doesn't, its as simple as that. I disagree completely with the USGA, but I am not so blind that I can't see whats ultimately going to happen.

Like you need a reason to buy a new club...LOL. I would hope that it's all or none. The only fair way would be to say anyone with a card by date certain can anchor. Once you lose regular Tour status you are back in the no-anchor group. It would be like the helmet rule in hockey, but it would take a lot longer (guys like Freddy come to mind). I don't see this as a good idea, but again, Champion's Tour may want to make their own rule. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave67az View Post

 

I thought I saw an anchored putter once, but it was just Craig Stadler.

 

At least you didn't say Ron Jeremy...c5_banana.gif

post #921 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave67az View Post

 

Am I the only one who reads this as though the PGA Tour is simply asking for those who currently use the method to be grandfathered in?

Actually, now that you mention it, I think it could totally be taken that way.  What does everybody think of that possibility?  At first thought, it seems like a potential mess to me ... but maybe it's a good compromise?  I don't know.

 

Absolutely unmanageable.  How would you track who is grandfathered and who is cheating because they picked it up after the ban?

post #922 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

Absolutely unmanageable.  How would you track who is grandfathered and who is cheating because they picked it up after the ban?

 

Absolutely right.  How long would you have had to use it? Can you "switch" the day before the ban goes into affect?   Do you lose your grandfather status if you ever revert back, even for a single round? 

 

Simply not enforceable.  Nor should it be.  Rules is rules......

post #923 of 1852

At this point, I wish the USGA would just make a ruling.

post #924 of 1852

I thought about the grandfather option but as others said, it's a nightmare to manage so I don't see that as a possible compromise. 

post #925 of 1852

Not that I think that it's a brilliant idea, but I don't see that a grandfather option is unworkable.  All current tour golfers who wish to be grandfathered could be declared so and put on a published list.  You would have had to have used anchoring in the past X (e.g. two) years in at least one professional tournament and would have to state which one that was, for the record.  This would entitle you to continue to anchor (or not to anchor - your choice) for the rest of your career.

 

The point of this would obviously be to address the argument being made by tour golfers who are currently anchoring, or who have anchored previously (and might wish to do so again), and who feel that they are being discriminated against in the proposed ruling.  This would take a lot of the political heat off of both the PGA Tour and USGA.  Of course if you're an up-and-coming golfer not yet on the Tour but likely to be so soon you're fresh out of luck, but the line has to be drawn somewhere and widening the eligible group beyond this would be less easily enforced.   The anchor-allowable category needs to be very clearly defined and limited, while addressing the political/professional issue that USGA have themselves raised by their dilatoriness. 

 

It isn't perfect and I'm not saying I'd propose it if I were USGA but something like this is very likely being considered as a compromise position that allows USGA to move ahead with the new rule while acknowledging that current Tour anchorers have a strong point.   

post #926 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas View Post

Not that I think that it's a brilliant idea, but I don't see that a grandfather option is unworkable.  All current tour golfers who wish to be grandfathered could be declared so and put on a published list.  You would have had to have used anchoring in the past X (e.g. two) years in at least one professional tournament and would have to state which one that was, for the record.  This would entitle you to continue to anchor (or not to anchor - your choice) for the rest of your career.

 

The point of this would obviously be to address the argument being made by tour golfers who are currently anchoring, or who have anchored previously (and might wish to do so again), and who feel that they are being discriminated against in the proposed ruling.  This would take a lot of the political heat off of both the PGA Tour and USGA.  Of course if you're an up-and-coming golfer not yet on the Tour but likely to be so soon you're fresh out of luck, but the line has to be drawn somewhere adn widening the eligible group would be less easily enforced.    

 

It isn't perfect and I'm not saying I'd propose it if I were USGA but something like this is very likely being considered as a compromise position that allows USGA to move ahead with the new rule while acknowledging that current Tour anchorers have a strong point.   

 

So you are leaving all amateurs out of the picture?  Can't do it.  As much as I hate anchoring, I'd rather see it approved than have a ban implemented in such a half-assed fashion.

post #927 of 1852

Yes, amateurs can't anchor if they wish to play in USGA rules events.  Again, the point is to address the issue raised by those who have made a somewhat or very successful career out of the game of golf and who feel that it is unfair that they are no longer allowed to use a putting method that has been legal for all this time.

 

That is not a category that you or I or any amateur is in.  USGA could provide a free box of Kleenex (extra soft) to members the next time they renew their membership, in the package along with the rule book etc etc.  Of course you would have to decare when renewing that you are profoundly upset by the proposed anchoring ruling and are considering legal action if you wish to receive the tissues ..... a1_smile.gif

post #928 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

So you are leaving all amateurs out of the picture?  Can't do it.  As much as I hate anchoring, I'd rather see it approved than have a ban implemented in such a half-assed fashion.

 

Right.  The grandfathering would have to be a PGA Tour decision, not a USGA decision.  Could you imagine the USGA adding a rule to the Rules of Golf, that makes an exception to a rule for people who have played on this tour but not that one for a period of x years and used an anchored putting stroke for at least 50% of those years?  Are they later allowed to try a shorter putter?  If they do, do they lose their right to anchor?  What if they tap it in without anchoring?  May seem ridiculous but if they're going to make a rule they'd have to think about this.   It would be completely unworkable.  Its also the reverse of the current bifurcation argument--allowing the pros but not the ams?

 

But even grandfathering by the PGA Tour would be a bad idea.  It would just become so divisive.  Regardless of whether any advantage has been proven, some think there is advantage and you're going to end up with a guy who isn't allowed to anchor, losing to a guy who is allowed to anchor.  

post #929 of 1852
If they grandfathered anchoring (which has a 0% chance of happening) I would just declare myself a pro so I would be legal and free of the USGA
post #930 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas View Post

Yes, amateurs can't anchor if they wish to play in USGA rules events.  Again, the point is to address the issue raised by those who have made a somewhat or very successful career out of the game of golf and who feel that it is unfair that they are no longer allowed to use a putting method that has been legal for all this time.

 

That is not a category that you or I or any amateur is in.  USGA could provide a free box of Kleenex (extra soft) to members the next time they renew their membership, in the package along with the rule book etc etc.  Of course you would have to decare when renewing that you are profoundly upset by the proposed anchoring ruling and are considering legal action if you wish to receive the tissues ..... a1_smile.gif

 

So basically, grandfathering applies to 5 or 6 people and not the other millions of players around the world.  Just plain silly.  If the ban becomes universal and those few pro players dropped off the radar, nobody would even notice it.  Forget it... ain't gonna happen.   It's all or nothing.


Edited by Fourputt - 2/27/13 at 10:56am
post #931 of 1852

So let me throw this out for discussion. 

 

Did the PGA Tour come out with it's feedback to somehow set up a rules modification for the Champion's Tour? How does this Tour play into the current state of affairs? 

post #932 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by meenman View Post

If they grandfathered anchoring (which has a 0% chance of happening) I would just declare myself a pro so I would be legal and free of the USGA

 

I take it you play in no competitive tournaments nor have any intention of doing so? 

 

But if that's the case, why even bother?  Just continue to do what you want anyways.  Unless you're playing competively, there's nothing forcing compliance with ANY of the rules of golf, as it's easy to see by observing play on any given day on most courses.

post #933 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

 

I take it you play in no competitive tournaments nor have any intention of doing so? 

 

But if that's the case, why even bother?  Just continue to do what you want anyways.  Unless you're playing competively, there's nothing forcing compliance with ANY of the rules of golf, as it's easy to see by observing play on any given day on most courses.

 

Its bigger than that though, because you can't post a score for handicap purposes if its not played according to the rules.  Weekend golfers who take mulligans and use the foot wedge can do whatever they want.

post #934 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

I take it you play in no competitive tournaments nor have any intention of doing so? 

But if that's the case, why even bother?  Just continue to do what you want anyways.  Unless you're playing competively, there's nothing forcing compliance with ANY of the rules of golf, as it's easy to see by observing play on any given day on most courses.

I do currently play in competetive tourneys but would stop in 2016 just to be legal. Once again there is no chance of this happening.
post #935 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

Its bigger than that though, because you can't post a score for handicap purposes if its not played according to the rules.  Weekend golfers who take mulligans and use the foot wedge can do whatever they want.

You're not supposed to post a score for any round not played by the rules. There's absolutely nothing to keep you from doing so though, and sadly many do.
post #936 of 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

 

I take it you play in no competitive tournaments nor have any intention of doing so? 

 

But if that's the case, why even bother?  Just continue to do what you want anyways.  Unless you're playing competively, there's nothing forcing compliance with ANY of the rules of golf, as it's easy to see by observing play on any given day on most courses.

 

Its bigger than that though, because you can't post a score for handicap purposes if its not played according to the rules.  Weekend golfers who take mulligans and use the foot wedge can do whatever they want.

 

And believe it or not, some of those types still return scores for handicap.  Doesn't bother me because they can't generally play to that handicap in a competition, so that's their problem, not mine.  I'm sure that if this rule goes through, some will ignore it just like they ignore most of the rules.  I don't really care about those people because I'll never have to compete with them.  If they ever do compete, then they will be playing by the rules, to their disadvantage.

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