Anchored Putters Rules Change - Page 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf 

At this point I just want the USGA to make their final decision.  2016 seems long enough away for the players that anchor to adapt and those that can't still have 3 year to make money before heading to the Champions Tour.  Phil seems to change putters and putting strokes weekly and he's still competing for top 25.  

The 2016 date isn't when they would make a decision, it is when they would implement it. They have some archaic rule about only revising rules every four years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52 

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf 

At this point I just want the USGA to make their final decision.  2016 seems long enough away for the players that anchor to adapt and those that can't still have 3 year to make money before heading to the Champions Tour.  Phil seems to change putters and putting strokes weekly and he's still competing for top 25.  

The 2016 date isn't when they would make a decision, it is when they would implement it. They have some archaic rule about only revising rules every four years.

I guess I don't see it as archaic, but as simply avoiding unnecessary confusion.  In a perceived instance of urgency, they will post a new decision in a more timely manner even if it doesn't fit the 4 year schedule.

Think of the cost in publishing a new set every year and ensuring that all referees are up to speed. Updating the decisions every two is bad enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt 

I guess I don't see it as archaic, but as simply avoiding unnecessary confusion.  In a perceived instance of urgency, they will post a new decision in a more timely manner even if it doesn't fit the 4 year schedule.

It is archaic. The only thing that will be confusing to people is why they will wait until 2016 to implement the rule when they finally announce it as a Rule of Golf. Some might think it will be to give folks a chance to adjust when really it will be because of this archaic rule.

So you don't think it's possible that one reason the rules only change every 4 years is *because* they want to give people time to learn about and adjust to them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill 

 

So you don't think it's possible that one reason the rules only change every 4 years is *because* they want to give people time to learn about and adjust to them?

I don't think they had 3 years to deal with the groove rule change, if I remember correctly the Pro's had about 1 years notice before the rule went into effect. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill 

 

So you don't think it's possible that one reason the rules only change every 4 years is *because* they want to give people time to learn about and adjust to them?

I don't think they had 3 years to deal with the groove rule change, if I remember correctly the Pro's had about 1 years notice before the rule went into effect. 

Right, but the actual USGA rule regarding grooves isn't changing, and thus it doesn't affect amateurs in non-elite events, until 2024 (and doesn't affect amateurs in elite events until 2014).

So an exception was made for the PGA Tour, and it was adopted as a condition of competition (as it will be for amateurs in elite events starting in 2014). Even so, note that the groove rule was proposed and comments were requested in Feb 2007. A revised proposal was released in Aug 2008. The rule was implemented for the PGA Tour in 2010. I think the Tour might have adopted the rule early since they felt:  1) Players who were paying attention would've known for a couple years by that point, 2) There was a perceived urgency since they felt there was too much bombing and gouging going on and the Tour was becoming less fun to watch as a result, and 3) The urgency only affected pros.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill 

 

Right, but the actual USGA rule regarding grooves isn't changing, and thus it doesn't affect amateurs in non-elite events, until 2024 (and doesn't affect amateurs in elite events until 2014).

 

So an exception was made for the PGA Tour, and it was adopted as a condition of competition (as it will be for amateurs in elite events starting in 2014). Even so, note that the groove rule was proposed and comments were requested in Feb 2007. A revised proposal was released in Aug 2008. The rule was implemented for the PGA Tour in 2010. I think the Tour might have adopted the rule early since they felt:  1) Players who were paying attention would've known for a couple years by that point, 2) There was a perceived urgency since they felt there was too much bombing and gouging going on and the Tour was becoming less fun to watch as a result, and 3) The urgency only affected pros.

Good points, I wasn't aware of the portion of the rule that takes effect in 2014 for amateurs, thanks.  It would make sense that the USGA would allow some transition time for a rule change that affects a golfers stroke or equipment. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill 

 

Right, but the actual USGA rule regarding grooves isn't changing, and thus it doesn't affect amateurs in non-elite events, until 2024 (and doesn't affect amateurs in elite events until 2014).

 

So an exception was made for the PGA Tour, and it was adopted as a condition of competition (as it will be for amateurs in elite events starting in 2014). Even so, note that the groove rule was proposed and comments were requested in Feb 2007. A revised proposal was released in Aug 2008. The rule was implemented for the PGA Tour in 2010. I think the Tour might have adopted the rule early since they felt:  1) Players who were paying attention would've known for a couple years by that point, 2) There was a perceived urgency since they felt there was too much bombing and gouging going on and the Tour was becoming less fun to watch as a result, and 3) The urgency only affected pros.

Good points, I wasn't aware of the portion of the rule that takes effect in 2014 for amateurs, thanks.  It would make sense that the USGA would allow some transition time for a rule change that affects a golfers stroke or equipment. 

Actually, any competition since 2010 could use the condition of the competition requiring clubs conforming to the new groove rule.  It was recommend that the above dates be used as a guideline, but use of the condition was not prohibited earlier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt 

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill 

 

Right, but the actual USGA rule regarding grooves isn't changing, and thus it doesn't affect amateurs in non-elite events, until 2024 (and doesn't affect amateurs in elite events until 2014).

 

So an exception was made for the PGA Tour, and it was adopted as a condition of competition (as it will be for amateurs in elite events starting in 2014). Even so, note that the groove rule was proposed and comments were requested in Feb 2007. A revised proposal was released in Aug 2008. The rule was implemented for the PGA Tour in 2010. I think the Tour might have adopted the rule early since they felt:  1) Players who were paying attention would've known for a couple years by that point, 2) There was a perceived urgency since they felt there was too much bombing and gouging going on and the Tour was becoming less fun to watch as a result, and 3) The urgency only affected pros.

Good points, I wasn't aware of the portion of the rule that takes effect in 2014 for amateurs, thanks.  It would make sense that the USGA would allow some transition time for a rule change that affects a golfers stroke or equipment. 

 

Actually, any competition since 2010 could use the condition of the competition requiring clubs conforming to the new groove rule.  It was recommend that the above dates be used as a guideline, but use of the condition was not prohibited earlier.

Good point. Just curious, are you aware of any amateur competitions that have used the new groove rule yet?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt 

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill 

 

Right, but the actual USGA rule regarding grooves isn't changing, and thus it doesn't affect amateurs in non-elite events, until 2024 (and doesn't affect amateurs in elite events until 2014).

 

So an exception was made for the PGA Tour, and it was adopted as a condition of competition (as it will be for amateurs in elite events starting in 2014). Even so, note that the groove rule was proposed and comments were requested in Feb 2007. A revised proposal was released in Aug 2008. The rule was implemented for the PGA Tour in 2010. I think the Tour might have adopted the rule early since they felt:  1) Players who were paying attention would've known for a couple years by that point, 2) There was a perceived urgency since they felt there was too much bombing and gouging going on and the Tour was becoming less fun to watch as a result, and 3) The urgency only affected pros.

Good points, I wasn't aware of the portion of the rule that takes effect in 2014 for amateurs, thanks.  It would make sense that the USGA would allow some transition time for a rule change that affects a golfers stroke or equipment. 

 

Actually, any competition since 2010 could use the condition of the competition requiring clubs conforming to the new groove rule.  It was recommend that the above dates be used as a guideline, but use of the condition was not prohibited earlier.

 

Good point. Just curious, are you aware of any amateur competitions that have used the new groove rule yet?

Nope. 

Nor me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill 

 

Good point. Just curious, are you aware of any amateur competitions that have used the new groove rule yet?

Some that won't....

http://www.thestate.com/2013/02/17/2637049/cga-scga-wont-follow-grooves-rules.html

The Carolinas Golf Association will not require players in its tournaments to use wedges that conform to USGA “grooves standards” in 2014, and the South Carolina Golf Association is expected to follow suit.

“Our board will meet next week, and I would anticipate our adopting what the CGA has done,” said Happ Lathrop, executive director of the SCGA. “We will not play under different rules in the Carolinas.”

In 2010, the USGA enacted the grooves rules to reduce golf-ball spin rates for golfers at the highest level, and the CGA executive committee reasoned most of its members are not “expert” golfers — professionals or scratch/plus handicap — and do not play at the highest level, such as in the U.S. Amateur.

The 2014 timeline to implement the rule is a “recommendation” and not a “mandate,” the CGA decided. The grooves specifications will be incorporated into the Rules of Golf in 2024, and the state organizations will support the change at that time.

The grooves rules are in effect for the USGA open championships and, in 2014, will be a condition of competition for all USGA tournaments. Golfers attempting to qualify for those championships would be required to play under the new grooves rules.

“We saw the impact in qualifying for the U.S. Senior Open last year (with the revised rules in effect),” Lathrop said. “Our number of entries dropped from 80 to 34. Most players are not going to buy a new set of wedges to use one day in an attempt to qualify.”

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52 

“We saw the impact in qualifying for the U.S. Senior Open last year (with the revised rules in effect),” Lathrop said. “Our number of entries dropped from 80 to 34. Most players are not going to buy a new set of wedges to use one day in an attempt to qualify.”

Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/2013/02/17/2637049/cga-scga-wont-follow-grooves-rules.html#storylink=cpy

That seems silly. In 2014, what, someone's going to use a four-year-old wedge because they think it will perform better somehow? It will if they just took the wrapper off, but not if they've been practicing with it for a month or two. Silly golf associations...

So I finally get to update my previously posted position of basically having never seen a guy out on the course using a long putter.  I played with a guy yesterday who had a broomstick length putter, however, he wasn't anchoring it.  He was using a goofy, croquet-ish style.  He stood with both feet together just to the left side of the ball facing directly at the hole, held the butt in of the club with his right forearm across his chest **, and swung it like pendulum with his right hand down lower.

**  Come to think of it, I'm not so sure his left forearm wasn't against his chest, in which case, I believe that he would be using an anchored stroke.

Either way, it was awfully different, that's for sure.  He was not a horrible putter though.  He was horrible at everything else, just not putting.  Might have had something to do with the fact that he was high the entire time. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas 

 

That seems silly. In 2014, what, someone's going to use a four-year-old wedge because they think it will perform better somehow? It will if they just took the wrapper off, but not if they've been practicing with it for a month or two. Silly golf associations...

Do most senior golfers have a high enough swing speed to get the ball to check up or roll back with either type of grooves? 

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf 

Do most senior golfers have a high enough swing speed to get the ball to check up or roll back with either type of grooves? 

The ones competing for a spot in the U.S. Senior Open should... Fred Couples is > 50, you know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas 

 

The ones competing for a spot in the U.S. Senior Open should... Fred Couples is > 50, you know.

True, I guess I don't count those guys that still show up on the regular Tour.  I guess I need to watch the Champions Tour more often.