Anchored Putters Rules Change - Page 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texian 

What you don't understand is that "intent" IS a consideration of this rule.

You were referring specifically to BRUSHING your body with your hand during the stroke.

You then said that if it was intentional you could be penalized.

This is NOT the case, whether you brushed it intentionally or not.  Simply reading the rule proposal makes it clear.

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14-1b Anchoring the Club
In making a stroke, the player must not anchor the club, either “directly” or by use of an “anchor point.” 

Note 1:  The club is anchored “directly” when the player intentionally holds the club or a gripping hand in contact with any part of his body, except that the player may hold the club or a gripping hand against a hand or forearm.

Note 2:  An “anchor point” exists when the player intentionally holds a forearm in contact with any part of his body to establish a gripping hand as a stable point around which the other hand may swing the club.

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Unless you are HOLDING your hand against your body, it doesn't matter whether you intentionally or unintentionally brushed your body with your hand.  Period.  How the hell can that be any clearer?  Intent has nothing to do with it.  Brushing your body with your hand is NOT prohibited, either intentionally or otherwise!

As for the people who insist that holding both forearms against the body (as in the illustration) is the same thing as anchoring, read Note 2 please.  Unless one forearm is held against the body "as a stable point" while the other hand is used to swing the club, then it's NOT the same thing.

First axiom of participating in a forum - "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerseyThursday 

 

Then why use that example? And I’m the one accused of making stuff up.

Did you read my entire post?

Because he never resorted to the belly putter, and as bad as his putting got it would have made sense to do so. That's my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ay33660 

First axiom of participating in a forum - "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain

How Twain foresaw the advent of the internet, I'll never know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ay33660 

First axiom of participating in a forum - "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain

I love that quote. This whole thread reeks of an argument about religion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texian 

My only concern about this is that I may unintentionally brush my torso on a stroke, one of my buddies may claim it's a violation, and we'll have to take it to the U. S. Supreme Court and have them decide my "intent."

Brushing is not the same as holding. Get over it. If your buddies call you on that in three years, find new buddies.

That should end your participation in this thread (but won't).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texian 

I'm not "assuming" anything. Based on my experience and understanding of human nature, I'm "reasoning" that that is more likely to be his motive than his altruistic love of the game. I admit I could be wrong, and will do so if Tiger will agree to a polygraph test. I doubt he'll do it.

Tiger has talked about this topic several times since 2000. He answered the question after the tournament. Call him a liar if you want, but he gave you the answer. Tiger knows the Rules better than almost every other PGA Tour pro, has a deeper understanding and appreciation for the history of the game than most others, and is basically a "golf geek." So I think it's 100% in character and quite likely that he supports the change because he feels it's not a golf stroke.

If Tiger wanted to lobby for things that could actually help him win majors, he'd want players to go back to heavier clubs, spinnier balls, etc. That's what he'd campaign for.

Let's hook you up to a lie detector and see if your only real reason for continuing to participate is because you fear you might be called by your friends for a legal stroke in which you brush your shirt. Thing would light up like a Christmas tree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texian 

If he was so interested in "the good of the game," why didn't he speak out before his competitors began denying him major victories with long putters?

Tiger hasn't been denied majors by long putter users, AND he was speaking out about it quite some time ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerseyThursday 

Person after person here has stated it should be banned because putting from an anchored point provides an advantage over the person with free swinging arms.

I don't see that at all.

The whole "it's not an advantage" line of bullshit reasoning is a straw man argument started by those who opposed the change. They seem to feel that since nobody can "prove" it's an advantage, that it should not be banned, while the REAL reason it will be banned is because it's not a true STROKE.

So no, you're wrong - there are no "person after person" incidents wherein those supporting the change are saying it provides an advantage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texian 

So you're telling me that the USGA's illustration of what would be legal, captioned "FOREARMS HELD AGAINST THE BODY," shows "free swinging arms"?

Yes, and it's very simple: 

- When the pivot point is the end of the putter grip (or very close to it), that's illegal.

- When the pivot point is somewhere out in space or in the golfer's body, that's legal.

In all of the blue "Permitted" things, the end of the putter is not the pivot point. In all of the red "Prohibited" ones, it is.

The guy with his elbows tucked against his side is still swinging the putter, yes. Just get in that position and it's pretty obvious it's vastly different than the prohibited methods.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch 

I'd like to congratulate the ruling bodies for adding putting to the roster of topics (politics, religion, guns etc.) that cannot be discussed without rancor, name calling and ill will.
Personally, I putt with a short putter but am very much opposed to the ban. Won't bore you with my reasons since the various opposing arguments have been thoroughly flogged to death already and clearly no one's opinion has been changed on either side.

I will just say that I have a problem with the timing. Too late, IMO.

I have always thought that the anchored putting style was exactly what the ruling bodies are currently saying, and that it is tantamount to cheating and is not a golf swing. But they should have never let it get to this point and should have addressed it years ago. Leave it be.

JMO.

I am 100% for this ban, no club should be anchored, period. Though i get the worry for long putters with high handicappers. Honestly, i only seen on person switch to that, who i golf with. The real number of people i see switch to long putters, was high school players. I went to the putting green one day, nearly half of them had some form of a belly putter or long putter. That's were the problem is, were training the next generation of golfers to putt using a method that is not a stroke. 

Though, my only question is, they allow you to keep the grip against your forearm, given it takes some concetration to keep the grip there, because it really wants to hinge at the wrist. In the image they showed, describing what is prohibited or not. What if someone putts like Matt Kutcher, were the grip is against the forearm, but they take the right hand and hold the top of the grip to the forearm? So now your only swinging your left arm? 

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52 

I will just say that I have a problem with the timing. Too late, IMO.

So because they waited too long they should not do what they feel is the "right thing"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52 

I have always thought that the anchored putting style was exactly what the ruling bodies are currently saying, and that it is tantamount to cheating and is not a golf swing. But they should have never let it get to this point and should have addressed it years ago. Leave it be.

 

Apparently you think so. I disagree. Better late than never.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saevel25 

Though, my only question is, they allow you to keep the grip against your forearm, given it takes some concetration to keep the grip there, because it really wants to hinge at the wrist. In the image they showed, describing what is prohibited or not. What if someone putts like Matt Kutcher, were the grip is against the forearm, but they take the right hand and hold the top of the grip to the forearm? So now your only swinging your left arm? 

Still legal. Look at the picture. And I'm okay with that - the club isn't pivoting around the butt end or something very close to the butt end.

Plenty of precedent for that. Look up "settled law".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch 

 

Plenty of precedent for that. Look up "settled law".

So using that argument, slavery should be okay because it was accepted for thousands of years?

Talk about "stretches".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch 

Plenty of precedent for that. Look up "settled law".

Sports rules are not law.

the USGA is too late, the cat's outta the bag.

Doesn't matter, and the USGA doesn't care. There going to do what's right in there eyes, period, end of story. That's the way it should be with a governing body like the USGA, they have to make these decisions, not based on if it is the right time, or if it is popular, or if player's cry about it, but what's best for the integrity of the game when it pertains to how the golf swing is made.