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If there ever was a year where College football needed a playoff format, this could be that... - Page 4

post #55 of 214

I don't think this is the main reason in this case.   Ks St was ranked #15 in week 4 while ND was #11. Why did Ks St pass ND? Because they played OK before ND did. If ND plays OK they get the big boost AND even more important Ks St doesn't one for knocking off OK.  Outside of the top 5, there is a lot more flexibility about bumping teams up and down after big wins.  On the other hand if ND plays unranked Michigan St , they are unlikely to vault from #20 to #11.  The moral of the story is pick the order you play your opponents carefully.

 

It is really too bad Oh St is on probation this year. Having another undefeated team with a weak schedule would have added to the BCS fun.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

There was an interesting article that I read on Yahoo today but I can't find it now.  One point it raised is that ND is likely to get left out because they lost to FSU in a bowl game last year.  Had they won the game, they probably would have been ranked higher than KSU in the preseason polls, and both going undefeated KSU would not have jumped ND.  The point of the article is that there should not be preseason, or even midseason polls because they're based on either no information, or incomplete information, yet have significant impact on the final standings.  Its just too hard to move up when teams above you keep winning.

post #56 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

There was an interesting article that I read on Yahoo today but I can't find it now.  One point it raised is that ND is likely to get left out because they lost to FSU in a bowl game last year.  Had they won the game, they probably would have been ranked higher than KSU in the preseason polls, and both going undefeated KSU would not have jumped ND.  The point of the article is that there should not be preseason, or even midseason polls because they're based on either no information, or incomplete information, yet have significant impact on the final standings.  Its just too hard to move up when teams above you keep winning.

I could not possibly agree with you more.  The BCS has it right that they wait until week 6 or whatever to release their first standings, but because the human polls - which start before the season - are 66% of the formula, it really makes no difference.  They should all wait until week 6 to do the rankings.  Then again, even if they aren't on paper, those who are voting probably still have in mind where they'd put people and it may not change much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by x129 View Post

I don't think this is the main reason in this case.   Ks St was ranked #15 in week 4 while ND was #11. Why did Ks St pass ND? Because they played OK before ND did. If ND plays OK they get the big boost AND even more important Ks St doesn't one for knocking off OK.  Outside of the top 5, there is a lot more flexibility about bumping teams up and down after big wins.  On the other hand if ND plays unranked Michigan St , they are unlikely to vault from #20 to #11.  The moral of the story is pick the order you play your opponents carefully.

Another problem that the BCS can never overcome without a playoff.  Pick two teams, have them both play the exact same tough schedule, and they both finish 10-1.  Team A's only loss was to team X in the FIRST game of the season, and team B's only loss was also to team X, but in the LAST game of the season - let's assume team x, and every other team, lost 3 games - and it's an absolute gaurantee that team A is ranked 1st and it's even quite possible that team B is not even ranked second.

 

Alabama was clearly the best team last year, and had they not played any games after the LSU game, it's possible they would have never had the chance to prove it.  (It very likely would have been LSU vs. OSU or Stanford)

post #57 of 214

That clearly best team lost at home. On a good day they could beat anyone. On a bad day, they could lose to anyone in the top 5. LSU was clearly the best team at the end of last season. I have no clue if OSU, Stanford, or  Alabama was the #2. OSU and Stanford never got a chance to prove it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

 

Alabama was clearly the best team last year, and had they not played any games after the LSU game, it's possible they would have never had the chance to prove it.  (It very likely would have been LSU vs. OSU or Stanford)

post #58 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

So, everyone agrees that ND is now the best team in the country, right?
post #59 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

No way ... Go Bruins!!!  (OK, that may be because I am a UCLA fan though) a2_wink.gif

I would still like to see Oregon face off against Alabama though.  Here are my crazy and guaranteed-to-be-totally-wrong predictions:

UCLA beats USC this week and clinches the Pac-12 South.  Oregon loses to Stanford this week (and Stanford wins the division).  Notre Dame loses to USC next week and is out of the picture.  Kansas State loses to Texas, leaving us with zero undefeated teams not named Ohio State.  UCLA beats Stanford two weeks in a row (last game of season and P12 champ. game) to clinch a Rose Bowl berth.  And, drumroll please, ..........................  Georgia upsets Alabama in the SEC champ. game leaving the final BCS standings looking like:

1.  Georgia
2.  Oregon
3.  Florida
4.  Kansas State
5.  Alabama
6.  LSU
7.  Texas A&M
8.  Notre Dame
9.  Texas
10. UCLA

You heard it here first.  c2_beer.gif
Well, I didn't expect the k-st loss to Baylor but I got the rest right. I was wrong though about Stanford-Ucla in that most likely after Ucla wins next week they won't play Stanford again ... It will be, i think, the winner of ore - ore st. Which means I have to amend my rosé bowl prediction for Ucla since they will likely not be selected after losing to ore and allowing them back into bcs title game.
post #60 of 214

To quote a famous person - 'That's why they play the games."

post #61 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

No way ... Go Bruins!!!  (OK, that may be because I am a UCLA fan though) a2_wink.gif

 

I would still like to see Oregon face off against Alabama though.  Here are my crazy and guaranteed-to-be-totally-wrong predictions:

 

UCLA beats USC this week and clinches the Pac-12 South.  Oregon loses to Stanford this week (and Stanford wins the division).  Notre Dame loses to USC next week and is out of the picture.  Kansas State loses to Texas, leaving us with zero undefeated teams not named Ohio State.  UCLA beats Stanford two weeks in a row (last game of season and P12 champ. game) to clinch a Rose Bowl berth.  And, drumroll please, ..........................  Georgia upsets Alabama in the SEC champ. game leaving the final BCS standings looking like:

 

1.  Georgia

2.  Oregon

3.  Florida

4.  Kansas State

5.  Alabama

6.  LSU

7.  Texas A&M

8.  Notre Dame

9.  Texas

10. UCLA

 

You heard it here first.  c2_beer.gif

So, I guess I had it all wrong.  Was certain ND would lose to SC and that obviously didn't even come close to happening, so I guess, yeah, we can now say that Notre Dame is the best team in the country.  (Yikes!)  I can still point to a couple of "what-ifs" ... If Barkley didn't get hurt against UCLA, USC might have beaten Notre Dame, and if FSU held on against Florida, my Oregon vs. Georgia title game would still be a possibility.

 

Sooooo ...

 

Who is the better matchup for ND, Alabama or Georgia?  (Radio guys say Alabama because ND is better at run defense)

 

Or do you think that they will get whipped by either team?

 

And, where do you think OSU would fit in if they weren't banned?  (Same radio guys were saying 5th at best because of just how bad the Big 10 is this year)

post #62 of 214
Quote:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--sec-rout-of-notre-dame-far-from-guaranteed-205348035.html

 

 

Let's say this up front: The Southeastern Conference has earned its towering superiority complex.

 

The smugness is based on fact, the arrogance grounded in truth. The proof is in the hardware, and six consecutive crystal footballs don't lie. It is the best college football conference in the land.

But occasionally arrogance leads to blindness, or at least severe myopia. And for all the SEC elitists guaranteeing a blowout by whoever wins its league against Notre Dame in the BCS championship game, I'm here to offer an eye test.

Look at the facts, get over the regional bias and acknowledge that someone outside of Dixie might actually be good at football.

My friend Clay Travis, who runs the excellent SEC blog, "Outkick the Coverage," was the voice of SEC arrogance Sunday morning on Twitter. Quoth Clay: "Notre Dame will be destroyed by either Alabama or Georgia. Seventh best team in SEC. At best."

Let me repeat that I'm a fan of Clay's and enjoy his work, but this is ridiculous. Notre Dame may indeed lose the national title game, but I don't foresee a blowout and an Irish victory would not be an outlandish outcome (especially if the opponent is Georgia).

And anyone who believes Notre Dame would be the seventh-best team in the SEC needs to get out more.

The gist of this argument is that the Irish could not have played anywhere near the schedule of an SEC team. Unfortunately, it's completely false. Here's the reality, stacking all 12 games on the Irish ledger alongside Alabama's and Georgia's and using the Sagarin Ratings as a measuring stick:

.................

Eight times out of 12, the Irish have had the most impressive performance when assessing comparable opponents. Notre Dame is 2-0 against the Sagarin top 10, whereas Alabama is 0-1 and Georgia is 1-1. Notre Dame is 4-0 against the Sagarin top 20, whereas Alabama is 2-1 and Georgia is 1-1.

So don't say the Irish haven't been seasoned by a schedule every bit as difficult – no, more difficult – than the SEC top dogs. And they've had far fewer games where they just had to show up to win.

Five of Georgia's 11 victories are over objectively terrible opponents – teams ranked 80th or lower nationally by Sagarin. Alabama has four victories over teams ranked 80th or lower. Notre Dame only two.

A lot of people point to the Irish vulnerability against the likes of Purdue and Pittsburgh as evidence they are Not SEC Tough. But Georgia fans who white-knuckled through scary wins over Tennessee or Kentucky – two teams so disappointing they fired their coaches – know that a good team can struggle on a given Saturday. Alabama is the only one of the three to dispatch overmatched opponents without a peep of protest.

The myth perpetuated by SEC fans is that every week is such a bloodbath, nobody from outside the league could withstand the grind. Yet in the month of November, the average Sagarin rating of Georgia's opponents was 70th. After opening against Michigan, Alabama didn't play anyone in Sagarin's top 30 for the next seven games.

Notre Dame didn't go more than three straight games without playing a Sagarin top 20 team.

It's easy to say the Irish can't match up with the SEC, not as easy to prove. The ultimate proof will be on the field Jan. 7, but until then SEC fans would be wise to tone down the towering arrogance.

 

 

post #63 of 214

As a ND fan, I'd prefer that they play Alabama.  If they play Georgia and win, everybody is still going to say that they would have been crushed by Alabama.  Plus, like you said, ND's strength is its run defense, so Alabama is likely to follow Lane Kiffin's lead and run the ball 4 times in a row at the middle of the best goal line run defense in the country, while the clock runs low.  More times than not, that will end in ND's favor.  

 

As for OSU I think I'd put them at 2 or 3.  They beat as many teams in the current bcs top 25 as Alabama has, and played 5 teams with a losing record to alabama's 6.    Why knock an undefeated team down for playing crappy opponents but not an 11-1 team?

 

My top 5 would be

 

1. ND

2. OSU

3. FL

4. GA

5. ALA

 

Florida has beaten LSU, A&M, South Carolina, FSU, and played a close game against Georgia.  I might put them ahead of OSU.

post #64 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

So, I guess I had it all wrong.  Was certain ND would lose to SC and that obviously didn't even come close to happening, so I guess, yeah, we can now say that Notre Dame is the best team in the country.  (Yikes!)  I can still point to a couple of "what-ifs" ... If Barkley didn't get hurt against UCLA, USC might have beaten Notre Dame, and if FSU held on against Florida, my Oregon vs. Georgia title game would still be a possibility.

 

Sooooo ...

 

Who is the better matchup for ND, Alabama or Georgia?  (Radio guys say Alabama because ND is better at run defense)

 

Or do you think that they will get whipped by either team?

 

And, where do you think OSU would fit in if they weren't banned?  (Same radio guys were saying 5th at best because of just how bad the Big 10 is this year)

 

I'm disappointed with USC's season, but oh well, life goes on. I think Wittek was decent as a replacement QB, though. 

 

To me, the better match up would be ND vs. Alabama, but if that happens I think it will be a snoozefest with a score being 9-6 or something like that with good defenses going at it. 

 

I would think OSU being undefeated would put them at a solid #2 behind ND. 

post #65 of 214

I am guessing Oh ST would be #2 but their schedule was worse than AL. They would have played #13 Neb and #19 Mich while Al would have played #7 LSU, #9 A&M,  & #19 Mich. Personally I wish they would crank up the SOS and devalue wins.  I am a heck of lot more impressed by FL losing to GA in a close game than any team playing western carolina.

 

The SEC really needs a 4 team playoff. I want to see Ga versus LSU and AL vs FL followed by the championship game.  And I would feel a little bad about leaving both A&M and SC out. Right now the SEC has a huge luck component.  AL getting to play TN/Missouri is a huge advantage versus LSU playing SC/FL or A&M playing FL/Missouri. And georgia playing Auburn and Ol Miss while FL played LSU and A&M is an even bigger joke.  It is too bad SC or a&m didn't beat LSU. This situation would be even crazier.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

As a ND fan, I'd prefer that they play Alabama.  If they play Georgia and win, everybody is still going to say that they would have been crushed by Alabama.  Plus, like you said, ND's strength is its run defense, so Alabama is likely to follow Lane Kiffin's lead and run the ball 4 times in a row at the middle of the best goal line run defense in the country, while the clock runs low.  More times than not, that will end in ND's favor.  

 

As for OSU I think I'd put them at 2 or 3.  They beat as many teams in the current bcs top 25 as Alabama has, and played 5 teams with a losing record to alabama's 6.    Why knock an undefeated team down for playing crappy opponents but not an 11-1 team?

 

My top 5 would be

 

1. ND

2. OSU

3. FL

4. GA

5. ALA

 

Florida has beaten LSU, A&M, South Carolina, FSU, and played a close game against Georgia.  I might put them ahead of OSU.

post #66 of 214
Thread Starter 

Georgia's QB has put up crazy numbers, but he hasn't done it against the elite teams of the SEC.  So their conference championship game should be interesting.  I still think Alabama is the team to beat and will face off against ND in the BCS championship.  Ultimately, I'm leaning toward Alabama to win the title.

 

 

ND under Brian Kelly looks like a championship team to me... But really disappointed in USC's terrible play calling against ND - and the fact that ND let USC hang around like they did.  That last goal line stand was just simply terrible offensive play calling on USC's part.  So that leaves a lot of questions about ND - and their ability to beat a team of Alabama's caliber.  

 

I think Alabama under Saban will get it done this season...

 

Forward looking prediction:

 

The future looks bright for ND.  Gholston is going to grow - and Kelly will get playmakers to surround him with.  ND should be a fun team to watch not only in the championship game this season, but for seasons to come.

 

As for my favorite college football team, tOSU is a year away... 2013 is going to be their season with Braxton a year older (more mature).  I hope he learns how to read defenses - beyond looking for the safeties pre-snap.  He rarely looks off a defender - pump fakes or any of the conventional pocket QB requirements.  The way he is successful today, is by simply extending the play.  He needs to mature beyond that and increase his passing accuracy.

 

I could see an tOSU vs. ND championship game in 2013.  That would make up for the silly bowl ban for the tattoos and cover-up.

post #67 of 214
Quote:
I don't understand this incessant apologizing for Alabama. They should've lost to the two good teams they've played this year (obviously, actually lost 1 of them). They absolutely do not deserve to be in the NC game. They didn't deserve to be there last year either.

 

 

The BCS system is so broken.

 

Alabama didn't even win their DIVISION, much less their conference last year, and they got to play for the national championship.

 

If Notre Dame stays on top, say bye-bye to any other team having a chance to get into the BCS championship unless ND has at least two losses.

 

 

post #68 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadesworld View Post

The BCS system is so broken.

 

Alabama didn't even win their DIVISION, much less their conference last year, and they got to play for the national championship.

 

If Notre Dame stays on top, say bye-bye to any other team having a chance to get into the BCS championship unless ND has at least two losses.

That is a popular refrain, but invalid, and here are two reasons:

 

1.  The team that was ahead of them in their division and conference also happened to be the other team in said Title game.  Why does there have to be a rule that the second best team in the country can't come from the same conference, and even division, as the best?

 

2.  Had their been a 4 or even 8 team playoff, with the way they played last year, especially at the end, it's quite likely that Alabama would have still won the entire thing.  Could I then say that the "playoff system is so broken" because a team that didn't win its division got to play in the title game?  Of course not.

 

The BCS has really one job, and that is to put the two best teams in the country against each other at the end of the season, and I would say for the most part they have done a pretty good job of it.

 

Furthermore, the idea that some people have (not you, just some in general) that a playoff solves all of our problems is pretty silly.  If we had a four team playoff this year, there would still be griping over that fourth spot.  Does it go to Oregon or K-State.  What about Stanford or LSU?

 

Last year:  Stanford, Oregon, Arkansas or Boise?  2010: Stanford, Wisconsin or Ohio State?

post #69 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by x129 View Post

I am a heck of lot more impressed by FL losing to GA in a close game than any team playing western carolina.

 

The SEC really needs a 4 team playoff. I want to see Ga versus LSU and AL vs FL followed by the championship game.  And I would feel a little bad about leaving both A&M and SC out. Right now the SEC has a huge luck component.  AL getting to play TN/Missouri is a huge advantage versus LSU playing SC/FL or A&M playing FL/Missouri. And georgia playing Auburn and Ol Miss while FL played LSU and A&M is an even bigger joke.  It is too bad SC or a&m didn't beat LSU. This situation would be even crazier.

 

 

Seeing as I'm a fan of THE University of Florida i would agree. Alabama has had a weak schedule (for an SEC team) and Georgia beat us in a crap shoot after 6 turnovers yet we've beat LSU, SC, TAMU, and FSU and we're stuck with the Sugar Bowl. At least I'll be going to Bourbon Street again for some hurricanes and hand grenades c2_beer.gif Welcome to the SEC

post #70 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFish View Post

Seeing as I'm a fan of THE University of Florida i would agree. Alabama has had a weak schedule (for an SEC team) and Georgia beat us in a crap shoot after 6 turnovers yet we've beat LSU, SC, TAMU, and FSU and we're stuck with the Sugar Bowl. At least I'll be going to Bourbon Street again for some hurricanes and hand grenades c2_beer.gif Welcome to the SEC

Not sure if I'll regret asking this or not but ... what are hand grenades?

post #71 of 214
It's a drink mixed in a cup shaped liked a grenade. It has a good bit of alcohol and taste like a pixie stick lol
post #72 of 214

I always use Urban dictionary for these type of questions: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hand+grenade  . You can decide what definition fits....

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