Norman says 'lots of guys' were using beta blockers - Page 2

So where does one draw the line? If I have decent vision yet decide to wear special glasses while playing golf, does that make me a rules breaker? I can hit the ball well and putt without glasses, but like to wear off-the-shelf 1.5 magnification glasses while playing. I can follow the flight of the ball better, and read putts more accurately. I don't "need" glasses to play, but find them a useful "tool". 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamo 

I care if someone cheats and loses. They're getting money and FedExCup points by cheating.

Exactly. The guy that misses the cut or earns $10k less because a cheater finished in 21st place cares too.

Actually, Norman raises an interesting point.

If someone like Beljan is “perscribed” something like Xanax to relieve him of panic attacks and it also has the bonus of improving play for (at least for this player) by calming his nerves and assisting in focus should it be allowed?

What is the current rule on this? If its prescribed is it okay?

Is he also implying that Beljan won because he was on Xanax (or something like it) given to him as a result of the panic attack the day before the tournament began?

If the athlete can prove they require a banned substance for medical treatment they may receive an exemption from the PGA Tour and be permitted to use the substance.   They have to request the exemption before taking the substance and competing. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerseyThursday 

Actually, Norman raises an interesting point.

If someone like Beljan is “perscribed” something like Xanax to relieve him of panic attacks and it also has the bonus of improving play for (at least for this player) by calming his nerves and assisting in focus should it be allowed?

What is the current rule on this? If its prescribed is it okay?

Is he also implying that Beljan won because he was on Xanax (or something like it) given to him as a result of the panic attack the day before the tournament began?

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf 

If the athlete can prove they require a banned substance for medical treatment they may receive an exemption from the PGA Tour and be permitted to use the substance.   They have to request the exemption before taking the substance and competing. 

Or get an iffy Doctor to sign off the prescription - see cycling and various other sports.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerseyThursday 

Actually, Norman raises an interesting point.

If someone like Beljan is “perscribed” something like Xanax to relieve him of panic attacks and it also has the bonus of improving play for (at least for this player) by calming his nerves and assisting in focus should it be allowed?

What is the current rule on this? If its prescribed is it okay?

Is he also implying that Beljan won because he was on Xanax (or something like it) given to him as a result of the panic attack the day before the tournament began?

From what I took from Zip's original post... Was Norman was speaking to someone in the media during the PGA Championship - and he brought up the Beta Blockers being used during his time on tour.  Then with Beljan's win... It resurfaced or became a relevant topic.

Bottom line... They should test if there are concerns (personally I'm not concerned).  As far as I know, they aren't testing the professionals on tour unless their is a claim someone is cheating via the use of a banned substance(s).  Then via their policy, they will open an investigation and have the right to test said player.

I agree with your statement. Self policing is not the way to go. Would you say the self policing is because this is a "gentlemans" game and the players have shown to call penalities on themselves? I would think there are players on tour that would use any advantage they can get.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hill 

I agree with your statement. Self policing is not the way to go. Would you say the self policing is because this is a "gentlemans" game and the players have shown to call penalities on themselves? I would think there are players on tour that would use any advantage they can get.

It's possible the PGA is concerned with the blow back the sport would receive if it had a Lance Armstrong like finding.  Therefore, its easier to avoid the subject.

I am relatively young (43) and take a beta blocker for a condition that I've had my whole life called Essential Tremor. I have shaky hands when executing fine motor control motions. I haven't been able to take a clear photo in forever without using the timer on the camera so that I don't have to be pushing (fine motor) at the time of the photo. Two years ago I'd had enough, asked my doctor what to do about it and went on the beta blocker with great results. The shakiness went away and I was able to use a pen again (couldn't fill out a form before) and was able to play guitar again. For the first few weeks I did feel "flat" in some ways, less excitable and more in control, but with continued use that feeling has gone away...perhaps it is tolerance or I got used to the feeling.

As for golf, I definitely feel stress and can't say that anything has changed. The condition that I am treating is a fine motor control problem, not large motor that are used in golfing. A side effect is that my blood pressure is lower than it would be naturally and if that means that I am getting an unfair advantage, then that would be a problem. I didn't know that they were banned in the tour, I guess that puts my pro aspirations on hold :)

I suppose that if you were to go on them and then off of them you could manage to gain an advantage, same with anti-anxiety medication.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0ldblu3 
I guess that puts my pro aspirations on hold :)

 

In France the restriction applies to golfers of all levels in competitions (any time for professionals) and in principle tests can be run in any competition. Of course, exemptions can be granted based on medical condition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by caniac6 

I would love for guys that make these kind of claims to actually name names. Norman has an inflated sense of self. This guy is more famous for what he lost, rather than what he won. Name some guys that benefitted, or shut up!

 It would be nice to have a thumbs-down arrow for this sort of post.

Fans in denial mode made the same sort of statements a decade ago about the first cyclists and baseball players who stated that PED's were rampant in their sports.  While there are multiple reasons for not respecting him, no one is calling Jose Canseco a liar and whiner anymore about juicing in baseball.  There is an irrational sociological phenomenon that people hate whistleblowers more than the cheaters/criminals/dirtbags they identify, even if everyone benefits from cleaning up the activity.

Let's think about this:  Joe Pro knew he wasn't going to win majors and in fact considers himself lucky to have made it through Q School once.  He discovers that with a Calming Capsule he can shave a stroke and a half off his tournament average.  Anyone who thinks that there aren't going to be plenty of guys choosing the option of bringing home $600k/year for their families taking Daddy's Little Helper instead of netting $35,000 a year as an assistant pro or mini-tour pro is delusional.  Sure, there will be well more than a few who take their lumps without breaking any rules - I do think golfers are among the most fairness-minded of all athletes.  But undoubtedly there were quite a few who felt they would never be caught and probably even more who thought "If I can just take something temporarily to take the edge off, get rid of those occasional yips, I can have a few good tournaments, be comfortably on the money list to play next year, relax and play my best golf without having to take anything.  It will only be for a few tournaments."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wansteadimp 

Or get an iffy Doctor to sign off the prescription - see cycling and various other sports.

 See e.g. Medical marijuana cards in California.  I bet there are millions of Californians who have them that aren't afflicted with cancer or glaucoma or any medical condition that benefits from marijuana more so then with other treatment options.  I heard an interview of well-known stoner thespian Seth Rogen once commenting on his drug use.  He asserted "Hey Man! My doctor signed off on a card for me."  When asked what his medical condition was that enabled him to obtain his card, though, he giggled "Uhhhmmm heheheh heheheh!  Anxiety."  I can just imagine the examination that led to that prescription:  "Uhh, yeah, so I'm feeling kind of anxious a lot these days."  Check!  Card issued.

There are legitimate reasons for using potentially banned substances, but athletes need to be smart about taking anything at all without confirming that they are either allowed to take it or will receive a medical exemption. I took steroids while I was a collegiate athlete.  In later winter/early spring I had the nastiest case of mono that anyone in the student health clinic had seen, that just wasn't going away and I missed several weeks of classes.  24 hours after they gave me prednisone, my symptoms had improved to those of a typical cold and my symptoms were essentially gone within 5 days.  As a mediocre Div. III athlete who was set back almost a month for my training for the spring semester, I was in no danger of being tested, especially back in the '80's, but I probably would have been found to have banned substances in my system if I had and nowadays I would have had my coach contact the NCAA to get an exemption for me.

The PGA tour should test everyone in the top 15 or 20 of every tournament.  That's fair.  Anyone who fails is either cheating or too dumb to have gone about their legitimate medical treatment in an approved fashion.  None of the BS "Honest!  I didn't know there was something bad in this OTC vitamin supplement! [the clear one that my trainer injected into my *ss]"

I am an inspiring tour golfer getting ready for an intense golf school in hilton head, SC and I can say I use to be a scratch golfer at 15 yrs of age and at 26 now I am suffering from unknown medical problems that are pain and anxiety related as well as high blood pressure. I am on valium, percocet and inderal for my health, otherwise I am losing weight and in pain or get the shakes and have high stress and blood pressure and could even have seizure like symptoms! I have all my medical records and sure hope if I reach my goal some day this does not ruin my dream!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wisguy 

 See e.g. Medical marijuana cards in California.  I bet there are millions of Californians who have them that aren't afflicted with cancer or glaucoma or any medical condition that benefits from marijuana more so then with other treatment options.  I heard an interview of well-known stoner thespian Seth Rogen once commenting on his drug use.  He asserted "Hey Man! My doctor signed off on a card for me."  When asked what his medical condition was that enabled him to obtain his card, though, he giggled "Uhhhmmm heheheh heheheh!  Anxiety."  I can just imagine the examination that led to that prescription:  "Uhh, yeah, so I'm feeling kind of anxious a lot these days."  Check!  Card issued.

 

There are legitimate reasons for using potentially banned substances, but athletes need to be smart about taking anything at all without confirming that they are either allowed to take it or will receive a medical exemption. I took steroids while I was a collegiate athlete.  In later winter/early spring I had the nastiest case of mono that anyone in the student health clinic had seen, that just wasn't going away and I missed several weeks of classes.  24 hours after they gave me prednisone, my symptoms had improved to those of a typical cold and my symptoms were essentially gone within 5 days.  As a mediocre Div. III athlete who was set back almost a month for my training for the spring semester, I was in no danger of being tested, especially back in the '80's, but I probably would have been found to have banned substances in my system if I had and nowadays I would have had my coach contact the NCAA to get an exemption for me.

 

The PGA tour should test everyone in the top 15 or 20 of every tournament.  That's fair.  Anyone who fails is either cheating or too dumb to have gone about their legitimate medical treatment in an approved fashion.  None of the BS "Honest!  I didn't know there was something bad in this OTC vitamin supplement! [the clear one that my trainer injected into my *ss]"

Wrong kind of steroids.  Common mistake but pred is not an anabolic steroid.

Now what is everyone going to do now that weed is legal in Colorado and Washington?  Yeah I know Federal law...blah blah blah.  But it does bring up an interesting dilemma.

WADA and USADA are a friggin joke.  As evidence I give you Lance.  Never failed a drug test but railroaded anyway.  Do you think WADA would accept witness testimony if you tested positive yet brought forth witnesses to say you were clean.  And despite all of WADA's efforts cycling is still the dirtiest sport out there.

Finally, where is this venom from Norman coming from?

I just don't see how a Beat Blocker can help your performance.  I have been taking one for years due to some heart problems and my handicap didn't change at all but my pulse rate did.  To the best of my knowledge it lowers your heart rate but doesn't affect your nerves at all.  You get nervous you heart rate still goes up, just not as high, but then it starts at a lower count.   Seems like a bunch of tah-do over nothing to me.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by retexan599 

Just for accuracy -- beta blockers are a legitmate part of treatment for heart disease.  I take a beta blocker prescribed by my cardiologist to manage my heart rate and blood pressure.  The beta blockers are very powerful medications and they have had to make dosage adjustments and different formulas over the years.  I also take other meds for my heart issues, and it all has to be kept in a close balance and with monitoring.  Too much beta blocker or too little can be a problem, depending on the given situation.  Just my two cents....

A couple of years ago a former struggling Tour pro told how he had to go on beta blockers because of a heart condition. He said the BBs made him so calm he lost his competitive edge - got over-mellow - and basically knocked him out of the Tour. Can't remember who it was...