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MJ banned from Miami Club for Cargo Shorts - Page 6

post #91 of 119

I agree with the fact that rules are rules and that means they are enforced on everyone. however, they should've told him prior to the round or he should've been allowed to finish his round and made aware for the next time.

 

and as far as the dress code goes. I am a 25 year old and I think there should be a strong dress code enforced in clubs. Golf is considered a gentleman's game and you should look and ACT the part. no shinanigans and no saggy, baggy, or torn up dress wear.

 

if i attended a club that required pants only I would adhere to that and expect whomever played there to do the same. Plus I kind of like getting dressed and looking spiffy before I head out to play a round, i think it adds to the experience. Now if i'm just going to the range that would be different...I guess.

post #92 of 119

This is crazy... MJ is a legend.  Legend enough that he could wear a tutu on the course if he wants to.  While I'm thinking of it, all 6 time NBA champs can wear whatever they want on the golf course.  

 

The idea of rules are rules are rules are rules is too much, at least when it comes to things that have no affect on the game whatsoever.  I'm all for rules, and having people follow said rules, but you have to be somewhat flexible.  How happy could club management have made their members if they could have gotten MJ to play  a round with some people (maybe as a raffle prize or something).  Instead, they just hacked off one of the men responsible for a large part of American culture for the last 30 years.  Seems a little too hoity toity to me.

post #93 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by WUTiger View Post

Quote:
Before I play at area country clubs, I call ahead to ask about the dress code. I played in a benefit scramble in May, and the club had a ban on cargo shorts. Not a big deal that day, since the temperature was a very cool 55 degrees.

I think cargo shorts and cargo pants got a bad name way back in the 1990s when the grunge crowd started wearing beat-up camouflage trousers, often slashed with razor blades.

And it's not an age thing. I played in a senior Olympics tournament last summer at a nice public course, and about 25% of us players wore cargo shorts.

Denim jeans also cause problems for some dress codes. Personally, I don't wear jeans for golf because of limited pocket space.

One of the top clubs in our area has a really tight dress code. Our former CEO was a member there, and he got six months probation for letting his shirttail hang out on a 100+ degree day. This club also has a ban on frayed clothing. Modern-day enforcement must be interesting, because the big-money guys I caddied for in the 1970s used to show up in worn-out khakis most of us would wear to mow the yard.

I absolutely cringe when I see players on the course wearing denim jeans. I don't expect every weekend golfer to have $1500 worth of Nike, Puma or Adidas golf clothing, but I do expect they have at least one pair of pants (not jeans) to wear out on the golf course.
post #94 of 119

At my club we have the no cargo shorts rule, the no non golf advertisement on any attire (including hats) rule, the no long socks rule, the no short shorts rule, etc etc.

 

It is usually the old long term members that joined years ago when the initiation rates were reasonable that bitch and complain.

 

Had to tell a guest of mine that his Tommy Bahama shorts were not allowed and ended up purchasing a pair of shorts for him from the pro shop. His Bahama shorts were three times the price of the shorts from the pro shop.

 

There is a dress shirt and jacket rule for the dining room. Ironically it is the same old crowd that proudly bring out their 30 year old crappy jackets that they stuff in their lockers out for dinner. No one does anything about that.

post #95 of 119

And this is why golf is a dying sport.  Remember when some club asked Rickie Fowler to turn his hat around when he was doing interviews after his round?  Are you serious?!  I know it's a private club with the right to make its own ruls and most people couldn't play there anyway, but still.

post #96 of 119

Last weekend Tiger played with his hat on backwards. Several years ago Furyk putted out at the Tour Championship with his hat on backwards. We have a local club, in dire financial trouble, that actually has a written rule that hats must not be worn backwards at any time. In my opinion, a lot of courses have lost sight of the fact that golf is supposed to be fun, and it should be more important that golfers behave properly than meet arbitrary dress codes.

post #97 of 119

I doubt there is any solid data that clubs/courses are strugglling because of too strict dress codes. The big concern for everyone seems to be the cost to play, the time to play and the cost to maintain courses.

post #98 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by caniac6 View Post

Last weekend Tiger played with his hat on backwards. Several years ago Furyk putted out at the Tour Championship with his hat on backwards. We have a local club, in dire financial trouble, that actually has a written rule that hats must not be worn backwards at any time. In my opinion, a lot of courses have lost sight of the fact that golf is supposed to be fun, and it should be more important that golfers behave properly than meet arbitrary dress codes.


good post - IMHO - dress codes are idiotic if beyond anything other than neat and presentable - golf attire is about as ridiculous as it gets and the rules seem to be more about people alpha male mounting by those who are impotent freaks anywhere else (strongly stated on purpose just for contrast). 

 

I'm hoping that the majority of tour pro's clothing choices are actually mockery of the whole topic.  If not, I'm certain about half of them are insane.  (Case in point, Ricky Fowler would look ten times more professional in cargo shorts, tank top, and a hair cut vs the entire orange outfit without the hair cut.  But in interviews, etc, he seems professional and he's a hell of a player - so who cares?)

 

However, though that is my personal opinion, each place can choose whatever they like, that's their option and hopefully their members match that environment.  I'll always support private organizations to choose, even arbitrarily, whatever they like on private property - not matter how ridiculous - (even as idiotic as the example of a paying member getting suspended for accidentally letting a shirt tail come free).

 

Tiger clearly was troubled by water dripping off the brim of his cap - he 'finished' the round with it backwards only after trying several times to dry it off for each shot.

 

 

MJ - he looked fine, clean and respectful.  It's the club's fault or his sponsor for not letting him know the rules.  Once they let him on, they were lucky to have him, and they should have let him finish.

post #99 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by D2Doug View Post

If Jasper Parnavick could wear what he wore golfing, I say big deal about cargo shorts.  I have some that the pocket can barely even be seen on.  However, I really like my Polo ones that have big ole pockets, they  are handy for tees and balls.   Probably don't look the best, true.  But they are functional!

 

But to ask a man to come back to the clubhouse at the 12th hole, that is rediculous.  They either tell him in the pro shop before he tees off, or they tell him at the end of the round and say "next time", no cargos.  This was handled all wrong no matter who it was.

This.

post #100 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc3032 View Post

And this is why golf is a dying sport.  Remember when some club asked Rickie Fowler to turn his hat around when he was doing interviews after his round?  Are you serious?!  I know it's a private club with the right to make its own ruls and most people couldn't play there anyway, but still.

We just got 50 new members at our club in 2012 and we have all the rules that you could want. One of which is, no backward hats anywhere, and no hats at all indoors.

 

As the military sez (and my Mom told me when I was 6)...no cover under cover.

post #101 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc3032 View Post

And this is why golf is a dying sport. Remember when some club asked Rickie Fowler to turn his hat around when he was doing interviews after his round?

 

Uhm, no.

 

  1. Golf is not "dying." It's in a decline, but you can attribute a LOT or all of that to the recession and the changing responsibilities of the modern-day father and husband.
  2. Golf is in a slight decline because it takes too long AND costs too much. "People can't wear cargo shorts at certain private clubs" doesn't appear in the top 100 reasons why golf is declining somewhat.
  3. That "club" was Augusta National. So...
post #102 of 119

Private clubs charge initiation fees, annual fees, locker fees, club storage fees and have minimum bar / food purchases.   They have to keep their existing members happy, so if their membership votes to maintain a certain dress code then all members and their guests should respect it. 

 

Our club just had a meeting for 2013 where these issues were discussed, we all agreed to maintain the dress codes (no cargo shorts, no collarless shirts, no backwards hats, no sneakers, jackets worn in the dining area) because many of us invite business partners and customers to the club and want to maintain a higher end look and feel.  The benefit of potentially adding a few new members by adopting a more relaxed dress code would be far offset by the number of members that would quit because the club no longer offers them the environment they wish to entertain their guests in. 

 

I have no problem with public and muni courses having more relaxed dress codes and have no issue with anyone that wants to play golf in jeans or cargo shorts if they are permitted by the course.   If you don't like over restrictive dress codes, avoid paying to play at courses that have them. 

 

Every club has to determine for themselves what is most important to their membership.  Our club offers reduced initiation and annual fees to attract younger members (35 & under).  For those willing to live with the dress code they get to be a member of a great club and access to a challenging, well maintained course with excellent amenities for about 60% of what the older members (40-60) pay.    

post #103 of 119

I just wanted to bump this comment from a few pages back ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

For all we know they didn't like the loud parties or all of the cigar smoking he did afterwards, and the dress code thing was a means to an end.

 

I once had to wait half a year for an incompetent co-worker to be fired not because he was completely incompetent but because he was more than 15 minutes late three times in a three month period. :P

We keep discussing whether or not they should have warned him before the round, or after the round, instead of during and other arguments for and against dress codes, but I think Erik had it right here.

 

I can't really fathom that somebody would stop a guy (famous or not) from playing right smack in the middle of his round if that was really the only reason.

 

[Side note:  I played in a charity tournament scramble at a country club (Fairbanks Ranch - San Diego) that doesn't allow cargo pants, while wearing cargo pants, yet nobody ever said anything to me.  It wasn't until the end of the day where I read a sign in the locker room about it, that I even realized I was breaking the rules.  Then I felt like an idiot and wanted to get out of there before somebody DID say something.]

post #104 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

I just wanted to bump this comment from a few pages back ...

We keep discussing whether or not they should have warned him before the round, or after the round, instead of during and other arguments for and against dress codes, but I think Erik had it right here.

 

I can't really fathom that somebody would stop a guy (famous or not) from playing right smack in the middle of his round if that was really the only reason.

 

[Side note:  I played in a charity tournament scramble at a country club (Fairbanks Ranch - San Diego) that doesn't allow cargo pants, while wearing cargo pants, yet nobody ever said anything to me.  It wasn't until the end of the day where I read a sign in the locker room about it, that I even realized I was breaking the rules.  Then I felt like an idiot and wanted to get out of there before somebody DID say something.]

 

I disagree... what evidence is there to suggest that there was something else going on (loud parties etc.) ? The "spy" in the article referenced is quoted as only mentioning his attire. And if a country club has the balls to interrupt a round for dress code, why wouldn't they have the balls to interrupt the round for disorderly behavior? 

 

Has anyone chiming in here ever golfed with MJ to attest to his conduct on the golf course? If not, seems the whole behavior/cigar smoke thing is without merit. Even in the picture provided he's got a cigar in his mouth but it doesn't appear to be lit.

 

just sayin

post #105 of 119

The only sources in this whole incident are an unnamed spy and Jordan's unnamed representative. No one else has commented.  Not the country club.  Not Jordan's host. Not anyone else who observed the incident. Yet people are so quick to criticize this club (all private clubs, really) or Jordan or Jordan's host, without knowing any of the facts.

 

Here's my take. It could be completely wrong, but it makes sense, knowing what little I do about fancy country clubs:

 

1) Host and Jordan arrive or meet at course.  Host checks them in at the pro shop.

2) Perhaps Jordan doesn't even go into the pro shop. If he does, person in pro shop is star-struck, is reluctant to mention dress code to a celebrity or to his host.

3) As an exclusive club, there is no starter needed. Perhaps no club employee sees them prior to teeing off #1.

4) Everything is fine until the 12th hole, when members of another group notice Jordan's attire. They call the pro shop to complain.

5) Pro shop now has to do something, so sends someone out to #12 to say that there was a complaint about proper attire, and suggest that Jordan may want to change into more appropriate clothing.

6) Host and/or Jordan tells person they will finish the round. They do so and leave the club.

7) Word spreads around the club about the incident. Maybe from the complainants, maybe from the guy who had to go out to #12, maybe from the bag boy who loaded Jordan's clubs into his car.

8) Somehow a newspaper gets hold of this (non)story.

9) Jordan's rep tries to spin it so that the club is the bad guy, not Jordan.

 

Like everyone else, I have no idea what really happened.  But my scenario makes as much sense as the gossip column in the Times.

post #106 of 119

I obviously am a major jordan fan and shoe collector of his,but I am not bias towards this situation either because of that. He should have been informed his clothing was not appropriate to play in on that course at that club before ever going off the first tee, also I do not think being a celeb has any trump factor on others to do things others cannot but it happens all the time. The situation is what it is and I do not think MJ is hurt by this and the course only made themselves look bad and lost a good amatuer golfer to play at their course!

post #107 of 119

2) or maybe the guy behind the counter doesn't know or care. How often to examine someones clothes very carefully?

5) The right thing to do is wait til the end of the round and let him know next time it is unacceptable. His wearing cargo shorts is not something like playing loud music, hitting into people,.. that needs to be addressed ASAP

 

As far as Jordan being the bad guy, if he is right that he has played  there a bunch of times in cargo shorts, maybe he thought they were ok at this club. I mean they are letting guys out in shorts. They obviously don't care that much about looks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post

The only sources in this whole incident are an unnamed spy and Jordan's unnamed representative. No one else has commented.  Not the country club.  Not Jordan's host. Not anyone else who observed the incident. Yet people are so quick to criticize this club (all private clubs, really) or Jordan or Jordan's host, without knowing any of the facts.

 

Here's my take. It could be completely wrong, but it makes sense, knowing what little I do about fancy country clubs:

 

1) Host and Jordan arrive or meet at course.  Host checks them in at the pro shop.

2) Perhaps Jordan doesn't even go into the pro shop. If he does, person in pro shop is star-struck, is reluctant to mention dress code to a celebrity or to his host.

3) As an exclusive club, there is no starter needed. Perhaps no club employee sees them prior to teeing off #1.

4) Everything is fine until the 12th hole, when members of another group notice Jordan's attire. They call the pro shop to complain.

5) Pro shop now has to do something, so sends someone out to #12 to say that there was a complaint about proper attire, and suggest that Jordan may want to change into more appropriate clothing.

6) Host and/or Jordan tells person they will finish the round. They do so and leave the club.

7) Word spreads around the club about the incident. Maybe from the complainants, maybe from the guy who had to go out to #12, maybe from the bag boy who loaded Jordan's clubs into his car.

8) Somehow a newspaper gets hold of this (non)story.

9) Jordan's rep tries to spin it so that the club is the bad guy, not Jordan.

 

Like everyone else, I have no idea what really happened.  But my scenario makes as much sense as the gossip column in the Times.

post #108 of 119
I find it ridiculous the he was informed on the 12 th hole. If it was such a big deal, shouldn't he have been told before he teed off? I also don't see the issue with cargo shorts. I do understand dressing nicely while golfing, but its crazy that some pants with crazy designs are ok but cargo shorts aren't.
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