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Should you stall the hips on purpose?

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 

I've been seeing this meme go around the internet lately. To me, and as it's been said many times before, feel isn't real, the turn is too fast to consciously "stall" your hips. If there is a stall it happens without you trying to do it?

 

Interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this...

 

post #2 of 27

Hey, I know that place!

 

Mvmac ... who is that?

post #3 of 27

I recently saw what's-his-name on the GolfFix explain that Rory gets such power because he decelerates his hips, causing the club to whip forward.

 

I have no idea whether his theory is correct or not.  But I have visions of thousands of amateur golfers wrecking their swings trying to stop their hips.  

post #4 of 27

Very good video, matches well with that heated discussion recently on accelerating through impact. 

post #5 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadesworld View Post

I recently saw what's-his-name on the GolfFix explain that Rory gets such power because he decelerates his hips, causing the club to whip forward.

 

I have no idea whether his theory is correct or not.  But I have visions of thousands of amateur golfers wrecking their swings trying to stop their hips.  

That was Martin Hall, and he was talking about Rory's hip rotation being the fastest on the planet, but how he pauses it briefly before and during contact. I remember thinking I'll pass on this one as it would probably take a lot of effort and practice to incorporate and do well, and might cause more inconsistency in contact quality.

post #6 of 27

Doesn't everyone stall (or slightly reverse) at impact? I am under the impression is that it is a result of biomechanics where the hips fire, coast for a bit at impact, and then are pulled through on the follow through. The hips are not some rotating motor. The are a couple sets of muscles that fire independantly at different points in the swing. I am guessing most of use would be better off trying to figure out how to turn our hips faster rather than figuring out how to stall more at impact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dak4n6 View Post

That was Martin Hall, and he was talking about Rory's hip rotation being the fastest on the planet, but how he pauses it briefly before and during contact. I remember thinking I'll pass on this one as it would probably take a lot of effort and practice to incorporate and do well, and might cause more inconsistency in contact quality.

post #7 of 27
Heaps of debate on this topic with very little information on how us average golfers are going to benefit from all this debate. There are numerous University papers on the kinematic sequence, I read one, but I even I read the whole thing 3 times I am unsure how the average golfer would integrate stalling into their swing. It looks more like an observation rather than a suggestion on how to swing the the club.

He says in this video "Use the upper body more", I have no idea how to do that. Sounds like what a lousy driving range pro would say.

I agree with x129 99.99% of us would benefit more from using our hips better, rather than thinking of stopping them.
post #8 of 27

Well i would concentrate more on learning the proper movements in the swing, hips start first in the downswing, this will really set up the rest of the swing. 

 

If done correctly, yes everything is slowing down before impact, even for most people the clubhead is slighly slowing down, which is OK, its close enough to maximum velocity that you wont notice its

 

The reason why is, the kinetic chain is a polynomial, meaning it has a peak for maximum velocity. If you try to time that peak, you'll end up just before or just after it, and maybe at the peak some of the time. That means, your going to be hitting with nearly the same velocity every time, because that velocity exists twice on the curve

 

Lets say you have three potential timing spots for clubhead velocity, just to simplify, 110mph, 115mph, 110 mph, that would signify three spots on the curve; before max, max, after max. So if your timing is good, your clubhead speed will always be 110 or above, and that is consistent. For amateurs, we tend to really loose power, lets say swing at 80 mph, but our max might be 95-100 mph. So were not swinging in a +/- 2.5 mph range, but a +/- 10 mph range. For us that is when you hear, "Oh i really caught that one", well you happen to time it just right that time :p 

 

The reason why the the muscles are slowing down, is because we are BiSymmetrical down our midline. So when our rotation passes our midline, the other side wants to counter this. This is why weight forward is a big key. If your weight is 50/50 at impact, your midline is way to far behind the ball, and your expending your energy way before the ball. If you get your weight forward, your midline shifts forward, delaying the slowdown till the optimal time, allowing the clubhead to reach near max velocity. 

post #9 of 27

I saw that Rory stalls his hips swing analysis on youtube.  No deep evidence, but my quick thought on it was that he's flexible and gets his hips well forward and turning early, but then close to impact the hip turn stalls as a consequence of him standing (ie straightening the front leg, not losing spine angle) and driving "down the line".  Of course the swing's still on an arc and all, but from my very middling amateur point of view, with the hips far forward and turned at A5 and A6, the only ways to get the club face to the ball and not dug in way behind it are to keep spinning them and stand up the upper body, losing spine angle and either pulling way across it or sort of knifing the hands and leaving the club face way open, or to straighten the front leg and drive power more down the line, and that move seems like just physically will stop/slow the hip turn naturally if done right?

post #10 of 27

Don't get what your saying, please make it more understandable? 

 

As for Rory, he has one of the most inside out swings on tour, this is why he had trouble at the mater's, he got stuck and hooked it. The commentator said he came over the top, that's BS, he was taking the club to far inside and got stuck. That slump were he struggled, he was working on his swing, and getting the clubhead outside his hands in the backswing. 

post #11 of 27

I believe that the stopping or slowing down of the hips is simply proper kinematic sequencing, and it comes because the upper body (torso) speeds up, and the only thing it can "act against" or its "platform" is the hips, so they slow down.

 

I don't think good players try to stop the hips, I think it happens naturally.

 

P.S. Just watched the video. That's what his chair example is about.

post #12 of 27
I think if I tried to consciously "stall my hips" I'd end up in the emergency room.....and the rat bastards that I play with would laugh themselves sick!
post #13 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

I believe that the stopping or slowing down of the hips is simply proper kinematic sequencing, and it comes because the upper body (torso) speeds up, and the only thing it can "act against" or its "platform" is the hips, so they slow down.

 

I don't think good players try to stop the hips, I think it happens naturally.

 

P.S. Just watched the video. That's what his chair example is about.

 

Should've just waited til Erik chimed in.  This is basically what I was trying to say.  I was trying to draw a contrast between the good way to utilize your hips as a platform and a bad way.  See Rory for the good way.

 

And I'm not sure if your hips wouldn't slow or stall the bad way I was talking about (pushing them towards the ball and losing your spine angle) as well.

post #14 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post

Should've just waited til Erik chimed in.  This is basically what I was trying to say.  I was trying to draw a contrast between the good way to utilize your hips as a platform and a bad way.  See Rory for the good way.

 

Mentioning Rory (I feel dumb for not thinking of this earlier) reminds me of this: his hips stall partly because they're reaching the end of their range of motion AND his upper body is acting against them. The way and rates at which his legs straighten and whatnot plays a (small) role as well.

post #15 of 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

Hey, I know that place!

 

Mvmac ... who is that?

 

That's Bob's partner at SDGI, Devin Fitzmaurice, great guy, really knowledgeable about the TPI kinematic linkage and sequence stuff.  He's developed an app for the iPhone to called Golf MTRx, measures the hips are doing in the golf swing

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas View Post

I believe that the stopping or slowing down of the hips is simply proper kinematic sequencing, and it comes because the upper body (torso) speeds up, and the only thing it can "act against" or its "platform" is the hips, so they slow down.

 

I don't think good players try to stop the hips, I think it happens naturally.

 

P.S. Just watched the video. That's what his chair example is about.

 

Yeah exactly what Erik said, the hips are stabilizing on the downswing so the upper body and arms can catch up.  Here are a few pics of my numbers on the Golf MTRx app, good swing for myself .  I'm going to contact Devin and let him know about this thread.

 

 

1000

 

My numbers are green, tour average is blue

 

 

1000

 

1000

 

1000

post #16 of 27

Hi guys,

This is a cool thread and Im sure happy to see Golf MTRx in it.  

This is an interesting discussion and there seems to be a long list of variables that can affect the hips and pelvis in the golf swing.  I can tell you from my experience that trying consciously slow or decelerate the pelvis before impact has disaster written all over it.  But I'm sure there are coaches and players out there trying to implement this because that is the way it looks on video and in graphs like in the app. I have heard of golfers trying to swing like Iron Byron which I doubt has any slowing parts or decelerates at all before impact (also not suggested). There is no need to decelerate, it just happens because the next segment above begins to fire and applies pressure to the segment below. What Erik said...   

 

Looking at a golf swing or sports or movements that require sequencing, we see this acceleration and deceleration motion and through sensor measurement we are now in this new era of kinematic sequencing.  Science and technology have put us as golfers in a new space with new ball flight laws and biomechanics which will begin to separate old school swing thoughts that only work for the players that developed them. I believe that this is just the beginning to what we can learn from a better understanding of how we can perform better and faster without the impediments of aimlessly guessing.  I also believe a key ingredient is how we learn it.  We only can move as fast and naturally as our body and technique allows.  I have students that are not physically capable of stabilizing the pelvis hence zero deceleration and their upper body just drags the lower body through impact.  I also see golfers with misconceptions and poor technique that don't decelerate and have no intentions of changing.  If you think you don't decelerate, then measure it, you might be very surprised in how you do and how it looks and feels. If you have issues and can sort them out, divide them into the time you are willing to spend and if it dosent sound reasonable at least you know what to work around.     

 

The fact is that I have seen great players that don't have great deceleration....those players luckily have an unbelievable short game.

 

 I have learned a ton from TPI and others.  Im a golf pro not a biomechanics expert and I know we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg on how avid golfer will benefit from this type of research and technology.  If anyone has questions on how Golf MTRx was designed or how to use it feel free to ask and I will do my best to explain it.

 

Devin 

post #17 of 27

I got this app (Golf MTRx) to see how it would help me, the average golfer and single digit handicapper...I'm impressed.  I'm not the analytical type, just the opposite as I rely on feel for almost everything in golf.  But, what this app is helping me with, and several of you mentioned this 'stall' of the hips during impact, is syncing my swing during impact.  I have more clubhead speed without trying to kill the ball. 

 

Over the last year and more I've worked steadily on creating more range of motion, mainly focusing on stretching my calves, lower back, hips and shoulders.  Before I started this, I was a bit tight to say the least, but now I have a better squat angle in my ankles, more range of motion on my take-away and more limberness in my hips than I've ever had.  What this app proved and continues to prove to me and my swing is that I sometimes 'spin out' with this new and improved range of motion.  Further, after analyzing my swing on each club, the app illustrates several drills to work on correction.   

 

I also like that this app allows you to input every club in it so you can work on each.  You will obtain different readings between your wedges, irons and woods and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what the chart is showing you--instant feedback. 

 

The app works for me and I'm sure it will work for anyone interested in improving their swing and their overall game.

post #18 of 27

I just got the MTRx app as well and have tinkered with it a couple of times.  I'm still in the info gathering stage here, as I can see what it's showing me, I'm just not sure what to do next.  Here are numbers from my best swing today (result wise at least).  A high drawing 6 iron to about 180:

 

 

 

SO now I understand that my peak time, and especially my acceleration are low (since it's yellow instead of green) ... but now I have to figure out how to fix that.

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