Solving Slow Play: A New Pace of Play Program You can Support in 2013 - Page 2

I filled out the survey. 

 

I work at a course, and i get stuck doing marshal duties from time to time. I find most golfers are good about their pace (even bad golfers).The course is public and the only time pace of play gets pretty slow is after 3pm. That's when all the duffers show up that would rather drink then golf, and they don't care about pace, or rules, or anything for that matter, their there to drink on the course, but they payed, so i cant do much about it.Most of the membership base plays earlier in the day, and the staff doesn't care about slow play when no members are present, and if the drunks aren't damaging the course, all is well.  

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that......ignorance is why slow play exists. The same people who play slow, drive slow, and usually cant tell the difference between their ass and a hole in the ground. 

That sound like a great idea, but for me a hacker at the best of times, it takes a little longer to play a round. It's the sort of thing that can put a new player off, constantly being told come on hurry up we don't want to be the last group in the club house. I know about this because it happened to me on my 4 game at my home club. After a few holes of me being told to hurry up by a certain member, another fellow in the group promptly told him, if he didn't spend 10 minutes looking for his ball after each wayward shot, we should be fine and to stop nagging the newbie. Now he didn't take to kindly to being put in his place, but the nasty comments stopped and I enjoyed my game a little more after it, probably because he got told to shut up and golf instead of winge. In saying that I have seen some slow groups playing and yes it's a bit annoying,but we just put up with it and played our game. The course was packed that day too. Just my 2c worth

"Do not commence your round until the group in front reaches the first green."....


Maybe at a private club, but a muni or local course with a par 5 as a start will put 3 groups on the hole. Green, fairway, tee. that's a money factory. IF they could, there would be 4 groups- putting, waiting to make approach, fairway hitting seconds, and on the tee. Even on a long par 4 they want you right up their patooties to put as many paying customers on the course as possible.

One of the worst combinations I've ever come across for a #1, #2, #3 combo was a relatively short par 5 followed by a tricky par 3 followed by a short par 4 (driveable for some- thought to be driveable by far too many). First hole you would have to wait for "that guy" who thought he could reach....with a perfect 210 high fade over the surrounding traps- into a stiff bay breeze of about 15-20 mph. Of course this is after the 2 previous topped worm burner fades as his drive and second. The second hole would have 2 groups waiting with a group on the tee. The 3rd hole would have 3 or 4 groups waiting because of the perceived drive-ability by the least talented. The damage is already done with almost an hour to play 3 holes. On a busy Sunday there is a high probability for a 7 hour round.

Just giving a little perspective here - I can play a 3 hr round with an effecient 4some walking, and I prefer quick play, but my girl is one of those who just moves kind of slow on the course. She steps up to the tee, looks around for a place to tee her ball, adjusts her hair, takes a stance, takes 2 or 3 practiced swings, resets, waggles, then swings. She has only been playing 1.5 yrs, and I have been schooling her, and she knows she is slow and trying to improve (she sometimes even yells at our daughter who is even slower), but let's face it: IT IS HARD TO MASTER THIS GAME AND ALSO TRY TO PLAY FAST. A lot of duffers just need to get their mind in order just to keep their head above water. Sometimes when I get on her too hard her game just falls apart (which of course leads to even slower play looking for her ball). Someone above posted about 20 hints on how to play fast - all totally legit, but look at it from the perspective of a newb - you have about 48 swing thoughts, and then you also have 20 things to remember about how to play fast...

 

So, should we just not allow newbs to play?  They do this kind of thing in (I believe) Japan and Sweden, where you have to prove your proficiency to play courses - is this the solution?

Rather than fining a group for a long round, fine/draw out the person responsible via CCTV and artificial intelligence (a la face recognition) to track the player who dawdles, takes too much time to find ball, not thinking in advance of what club to take, green reading, etc... Aggregate offending movements with clock on bottom and show total time excessive on bottom. Yes, there are 1st amendment and privacy issues, maybe there's a way to fuzzy out the faces.

So, should we just not allow newbs to play?  They do this kind of thing in (I believe) Japan and Sweden, where you have to prove your proficiency to play courses - is this the solution?
[/quote]

Blasted iPhone. Was responding to the idea that newbies aren't allowed to play here in Japan. I've played more courses here than in the US and never seen that. Lots of people who say they play golf though actually mean the go to a range. Just my idea but I expect they stick to the range until they are capable of at least doing as well as 140 or so. Loss of face, shame, all that.

But the slow play problem os rampant. Made so not just b/c everything listed here, and in spite of an OB off the tee being dropped in a marked zone on the fairway and playing 4, but b/c of the carts. No key, no reverse, no accelerator. Just push a button and it follows the buried cable very slowly. Always on the path. Which now creates more slow play if a player has a 6 iron but decides a 7 would be better. Or they duff one 25 yards and the person with the remote has moved the cart forward 75+ yards up the path. So now you have golfers with clubs in a cart walking/trotting from spot to spot carrying a half dozen clubs. Because the same gene that makes slow players slow also prevents them from considering the ramifications of moving the cart ahead of the back player when perhaps he should hike forward to his ball and survey his shot while keeping an eye out for an appropriate time to press the remote.

And just pray the gut with the remote gets it right at the pre-set stopping points on par 4 and 5 holes. Accidentally send the cart forward and it promptly heads for the green and stops there with all players clubs. This also means It is impossible to play through as you have no key. (Well, at the course I play weekly I followed the lead of this one pilfer player and pilfered a key, though the cameras can catch you. In areas covered bu cameras drive slower and reduce arm steering movements.

The solution? Actually USE the walkie talkies found in Japanese 4-person carts. Players report slow play, marshals contact them by radio snd warn them. Maybe give them instructions on both what they are doing wrong to make the play go slowly and demand that they rectify s potion of the problem by signaling the group behind them to play through.

They've got clocks at the rest areas set to the tome it should be if your group is on schedule. One member of the group often becomes the Fast Play/Manners Up Marshal. Or many courses have caddies available fir about $120/foursome that is dead on with yardage, knows where you should be aiming, very quickly learns your own capabilities to the point you're thinking 5or 6 and turn around to see those clubs offered, is cart smart keeping it as accessible to all players ad possible, hands you your putter at the green and takes away your approach club, marks your ball, cleans it and gives it back to you and hands out the drivers and takes care of the covers and replacing them in the bag. And of course not only watches where that wayward ball goes, but makes the attempt to locate it. This can slightly speed up play to the point that you are now right behind the forward group with nowhere to go. But you are infinitely more relaxed about the delay.

Bit none of this changes the fact that 5 hours is a very good tempo, you must stop about an hour for linch (or a shower and change of clothes in the summer) of course you are going to rest in the bath afterwards, so golf is basically a 12 hour experience from leaving in the AM and returning in the PM.

 

Not really, because i think majority of the time half the duffers are thinking to damn much :p 

 

Is course design a problem, yea, but you can't help that, that's not something you can change

 

 

 

 

I don't want to say yes to this, but i think i might. Just because i have sat behind a group were i saw a guy who could get the ball in the air. I would seriously take into consideration if a person can play or not. But i think ranger's need to do a better job, i only been on a handful of courses that had rangers who were active in watching for slow play. 

 

 

 

 

Seriously, not once have i ever seen anyone stop for an hour for lunch, that is absurd, and a way to throw off the whole pace of the golf course. The most time i have spent inbetween the 9th and 10th hole is probably 10 minutes. Go grab a few snacks, use the restroom, that's about it. 

 

 

 

the problem with this in the United States, it would be abused because some idiot thinks no matter how fast the group in front of them is playing, there playing slow. 

---

 

Completely disagree.

 

I think players would end up playing better if they had one swing thought, stepped up, and whacked the ball.

 

The thought that "if I take more time I'll play better" is not only wrong, it's detrimental to the sport itself and to its participants.

The obvious problem with this is when you're in the foursome following the foursome doing a 5 hour round.  How would you fix that?  I would never return to a course that "fined" me for have to wait on the foursome in front of me all day and no ranger in sight to speed them up.

I agree 100% with your opinion but am also new enough to playing golf seriously to know that new players aren't likely going to step up and whack the ball. 

 

Most new players learn golf by watching pro's on television.  They watch them take extraordinary time to determine which club to use and then line up their shot.  The lesson learned is that's how the game is played.  If you want to see new golfers speed up, you need to get the pro's to speed up and set the right example. 

 

I've been saying this for several years on this forum every time this subject comes up, and some of the members here still don't get this simple fact.  I worked as a starter at a very busy public course for 5 years.  Part of my job was to record times when groups made the turn and finished.  In all of that time I never saw a relationship between pace of play and the group demographic.  New or experienced, young or old, male of female, high or low handicap - all of those groups contain both fast and slow players.  I'd say that the most likely to be a little bit slow are new players, simply because they have never been exposed to the techniques for efficient play, but that difference was slight.  Some of the worst individually were very experienced players - why I don't know - but they were simply slow.  

 

One thing I do know, you can't simply tell someone to play faster and expect to accomplish anything.  All you will do is get them either flustered or angry.  Teach them how to play faster without feeling rushed and then you have accomplished something.  

 

However, some people, like some animals, are untrainable - usually because they refuse to believe that they have a problem.  There were one or two guys in my Men's Club who I hated to get paired with in a tournament, because I knew that by the time we made the turn I'd have to be pushing them to catch up or the group would face a penalty for slow play.  Trying to push an inherently slow player is like trying to push an elephant - it doesn't work.

 

 

Pass out something like that at a public course and all you get is more litter, or fuller trash cans.  I can't tell you how many times I was asked questions while working in the starter booth, the answers to which were clearly printed on the scorecard.  Most don't even bother to read that, much less any other paperwork handed out.  I worked rules for CGA tournaments and some of those players didn't even bother to look at the conditions of the competition sheet handed out at the start of the tournament.  I know of at least one player who would have finished second but for being DQ'ed for an avoidable mistake if he had just read the sheet.

 

One other comment on this:  The average public course can't afford the luxury of such long intervals between groups.  It's a wonderful ideal, and when I play an upscale course which limits interval to a 10 minute minimum, the flow is smoother and play is just faster.  However, it is inevitable that the more you reduce that interval, the more likely it is that a problem will develop.  8 minute intervals between groups doesn't allow for anything except perfect golf.  Even minor issues such as a 2 minute search for a ball in the rough will start a cascade effect.  I don't know of any possible policy which can help when a course tries to cram more players on the course than it's designed to carry.

 

 

A proficiency test might help, but on a public municipal course which is partly supported by tax dollars, you just can't do it.  Newbies pay taxes just like anyone else, and have the right to access.  All you can do is try to make certain that they are informed as to what the course pace of play policy is before they leave the first tee, and given tips to help them maintain it.  

 

Picking up after "X" strokes is certainly one way.  Another way is to encourage novice players to move up to the forward tees, or even up to the 200 yard marker for the hole and use that as their tee.  A friend of mine started bringing his son out with him when the boy was 6 years old.  He started by playing from the 100 yard markers, moving back gradually as he figured the game out.  It was a great solution for everyone - the boy had fun playing a course which suited him, we had fun encouraging him, and he got that neat feeling that a kid gets when he feels accepted by his Dad's crowd.  He also learned how to play the game correctly, right from the start.

 

My home complex is fortunate in having two nice short courses, a 9 hole par 3 and a 9 hole executive course, along with the 18 hole championship course, so we can encourage new players to start slow with one of the smaller layouts.  We even hold a junior golf camp for two weeks each summer on the par 3 course.  The downside is that it makes those courses less attractive to better players because they know that there is a fair chance that they will be stuck behind some rather bad players. 

 

 

 

This is the word.  Do your thinking on the practice tee.  On the course step up and hit the ball.  If you spend more than 5 seconds over the ball after address you're dawdling.  Pre-shot routine shouldn't take more than 15 seconds.  Do your planning while waiting for others to hit, then step up and whack it.  Note that most pros my seem to take a long time, but most of that is yakking with the caddie.  Once they start their routine, there is little time wasted.  Since most of us don't have caddies, we should be ever so much faster than the pros.

Edited by Fourputt - 1/3/13 at 10:07am

i think that a more firm approach to marshaling would help.  if a marshal comes up to a slow group holding up the course and tells them "pick up your balls and move 2 holes ahead" then the point would sink in.  once a course get a reputation of not tolerating slow play and ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT, then you may see improvement.  i would make players sign a paper in the clubhouse when paying that tells them that having this happen to them is a possibility if they play slow.

Pace of play

 

There are many factors which help the pace of play of golf.

• Management of course.
• Maintenance of course.
• Players at course.

 

Speak to management about your golfing experience. Inform the Head Pro or Manger when you have a poor experience due to slow play. Golf is a business like any business which relies on customer satisfaction. If you handle the situation in an orderly manner, management will probably accommodate you with a pass or rain check to play on another day or possible even a refund.  Tell them thanks when you’ve have a great day. When customers start complaining on a regular basis about similar occurrences, they will likely address the situations.

 

Management needs to address Pace of Play when a course is booked full for everyday of play.

A full tee sheet is good for business, it provides income to the business.

They should have a trained ranger or marshal who is able to identify when a group is creating a backup of groups on the course and handle it accordingly.  

When needed, having a second individual may help out on the busiest of days.

Starters can help by sending groups off the first tee when a group has reached the green of the first hole. 

Communication between marshals and starters sometimes can help prevent jamming a course with players.

An additional few minutes of starting new groups out on the course could help prevent later problems.

On course beverage staff should be trained to serve customers only at tee locations.

 

Maintenance of the golf course contributes in many areas of a golfers experience.

The mowing of ruff and native areas should be discussed by management and course superintendent. Managing the ruff length before weekend play enables players to locate wayward shots in these areas quicker. Native areas should be discussed if needed. Sometimes a buffer area of mowed ruff where tee shots are common on a hole will alleviate time of players searching for a ball.  Have you ever had to wait for a course employee to water a green? Probably yes, but does that employee need to water the greens in rotation in front of this group for 3 or 4 holes? Most course maintenance employees are doing their best to not disrupt play of a course.

 

Golf is generally played in groups of four players. Sometimes, fivesomes are allowed. It is the responsibility of players to recognize if and when, they need to address situations which are creating a problem of the pace of the group.

 

Consider playing at various times or different courses during peak times of the season. Planning ahead to acquire an early tee time or during the week on days when courses are not at their busiest periods.

 

 If your group is stuck in a bad situation due to slow play at a course, then consider it time to pack up and speak to the management.

These are only a few suggestions which may or may not remedy situations when slow play occurs.

 

Above all, speak with the Management of course.

 

Club Rat

Maintenance can be a big part, I will agree. Cherry Creek out in Riverhead, when it was newly opened up until a few years ago had a tall, THICK second cut of rough that was nearly impenetrable to get a club through. Not to mention that it ate balls at a remarkable rate. You could watch your ball land and roll off into the area and never see it again. Spend a few minutes doing the mine detector walk trying to see if you could step on it and find it. Slowed you down and frustrated everyone for a generally a US Open type of penalty for a small error. A few years ago I noticed right away that they cut that grass down to a much more manageable height and it's thinner then it was. Certainly SEEMED to improve the pace, since it didn't require 4 or 5 minutes on all the holes looking that ball just off the fairway.

If a course is demanding 4 hours of play and know there conditions are such were its hard as hell to find a ball in the primary rough, that is absurd. The odds of an amateur hitting the fairway probably less than 50% of the time, that means for a foresome, 28 times during a round they are looking around for a golf ball. There's no way you can expect a round to play in 4 hours. 

 

Besides that, its pretty much on the players to play ready golf. Honestly, you can go comfortably through your routine, and hit the ball with out feeling rushed and play a good pace of golf. I even pace off my yardages, and still keep good pace. The problem is, majority of these players are people who picked up the game later in life, and think they need to act like professional golfers, and have no clue of proper etiquette or pace of play. 

One of the better reasons why I belong to a private club.

 

We have one hole that ties up the course a bit, the 4th, which is a 240 yard par 3 with trouble everywhere. But once players get through that hole the pace picks up pretty well.

Suggestions for pace of play should not be confused with local rules or the rules of golf. We place it in their locker at the beginning of the season, and have it posted on the bulletin board and at the starters desk.

Any player who enjoys the game should be willing to gain some knowledge about the etiquette and proficiencies of the game. The multiple things the player can glean from a list like that would speed up play exponentially. Just "ready golf" alone would cut significant time and I would never pass up an opportunity to make suggestions, trash or no trash. If they play enough they will hopefully get it.