Jump to content
IGNORED

Open setup w/ Irons; Closed setup w/ Driver


Note: This thread is 4120 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

I just started playing golf last spring, and my swing has gone through some major changes.  I started off duck hooking everything, then got to where I was hitting pretty well, and then got to the point where most of my iron shots were straight pushes - especially shorter irons - and my driver consistently had a wicked slice that started straight.  My 4W goes straight as an arrow provided I hit it clean.  I still average 3++ putts/hole, so that accounts for a lot of the (made-up) handicap!

So I was thinking and started looking into "D-Plane", and I might have found some solutions to my issues... if the swing is an inclined arc, and if the clubface stays square to the arc, then at the bottom of the arc the clubface is square to the target line, assuming you set up square.  The bottom of the arc ought to fall somewhere just forward of center of your stance I reckon because of the lateral movement forward during the swing.

So assuming you set up completely square to the target (where the target line would be tangent to the bottom of the arc)...

You're supposed to hit the ball first with your irons (ball in middle of stance), so the club is on the way down, and should be traveling in to out along the arc, with the clubface slightly open at impact (but square to path).  ...and so I hit a push.  And with shorter clubs like wedges the arc is shorter and the push is more pronounced.  Makes sense.

You sweep with the fairway woods, which to me means you put the ball at the bottom of the arc.  Path and face are square; ball flies straight.

Driver was the toughest thing to figure out; you put the ball way forward in your stance, in front of the bottom of the arc and hit the ball on the way up, which means the club must be coming out to in.  If you manage to hold the face square to the line, you still hit a slice.  I don't know how you shift the arc so far forward that it's traveling square AND up into the ball without changing your stance.

So now I'm experimenting with different address positions and I'm having some success (two days in a row, so we'll see...).  When driving, I'm setting up several degrees closed (not just moving my rear foot back, but rotating my stance as if I'm hitting an imaginary ball in the middle of my stance that's behind and inside the actual ball), so the target line is tangent to the impact point on the arc, as opposed to being tangent to the bottom of the arc.  The drives immediately started going straight and far, one after the other.  That's right... aiming right cured my slice (for now).  Counterintuitive.  Makes the finish position slightly awkward - got to work through that.

My iron shots were going straight, but were just pushed right.  So I set up slightly open and they go where I want.

I post all this because it feels like a breakthrough, but I was curious to get others' input here.  I don't want to mask swing faults, but I do want to find a swing that makes sense mechanically.

.........

As an aside, this site has lots of info on it.  I'm not sure if they ripped off a book(s) or what with the graphics, but I found it helpful.  Still reading through it...

http://www.craftsmithgolf.com/Free%20Lessons.htm

I would like to thank my many sponsors:

 

Cobra Amp 9.5* Driver; Aldila RIP Stiff 55g shaft

Titleist 904f 17* 4W; S300 shaft

Callaway X-22 3-P, reg flex, 1/2" long, 2* up

Titleist Vokey 252.08 & 256.14 wedges; standard

Ping Anser Putter (because it gives me the confidence I need to 4 putt)

Winn Dri-Tac Jumbo grips all around

Top-flite Gamer V2 ball

I'm 6'4", 210lbs, 34yo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Here is an image from Ben Hogan's book, "Five Lessons."

Seems to agree with your above assessment.

Driver - Titleist 913D2 10.5* 3 Wood - Tour Edge Exotics XCG 3 15* Hybrid - Ping G20 20* Hybrid - Ping G20 23* Irons - Ping i20 5-PW KBS Tour Wedges - Titleist Vokey SM4 50* 54* 58* Putter - Tom Slighter Snubnose

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Moderator

Yep Hogan was ahead of his time with that pic

Mike McLoughlin

Check out my friends on Evolvr!
Follow The Sand Trap on Twitter!  and on Facebook
Golf Terminology -  Analyzr  -  My FacebookTwitter and Instagram 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Mvmac,

Is there a reason that Hogan prescribes a square right foot position? Is this an example of "feel is not real" or was there something specific to his swing that made him come to that conclusion?

Driver - Titleist 913D2 10.5* 3 Wood - Tour Edge Exotics XCG 3 15* Hybrid - Ping G20 20* Hybrid - Ping G20 23* Irons - Ping i20 5-PW KBS Tour Wedges - Titleist Vokey SM4 50* 54* 58* Putter - Tom Slighter Snubnose

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Moderator

Good question, tough to say for sure, lots of different camera angles.  Looking at some pics and video it seems like he had some right foot flare with the driver, not sure about the irons.  Regardless he definitely turned his hips enough and definitely on a slant.  Most people need that foot flared to help them turn and keep the hips relatively centered.  Most golfers that I see that don't flare the foot our, shift the hips to the right on the back swing.

I think early in his career Hogan might have gotten too much of a reverse hip slide, hips go too far towards the target on the back swing.  As we know he struggled with hook, common problem for good players who reverse hip slide.  So for him restricting some rotation helped keep things more centered so he didn't rotate the baseline of the plane so far to the right.  That and I think he set his shoulders and hips a little to the left of his stance line for most shots.  Hogan also banked his foot, didn't lift that heel too early on the downswing.  The foot flare allows that too happen as well.  He might have been able to do it with a square right foot, just taking a look at some of these impact pics, that right heel is leading the toes.

I didn't draw the lines, just got this image off google.  Right foot looks at little flared to me with the woods.

Mike McLoughlin

Check out my friends on Evolvr!
Follow The Sand Trap on Twitter!  and on Facebook
Golf Terminology -  Analyzr  -  My FacebookTwitter and Instagram 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 4120 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Posts

    • Day 12: Same as last couple days, but focus was on recentering aspect of flow. When I recenter earlier I make decent contact most swings but if I recenter late or not at all it’s a roll of the dice. 
    • A couple of things.  Some of the clubs in your bag should be dropped immediately.  A 2-iron for example with what obviously seems to be a lower swing speed or possibly not great swing yet is a definite no-no.  To be hitting that 120-140 yards, which I assume includes run, is a sign that you are not getting the ball airborne at the correct angle to maximise distance.  The reason your 3 and 5 hybrid are going the same distance is that your launch angle is better with the 5.  Loft is your friend. Ideally I would suggest going to a golf or sporting store where you can hit golf balls on a simulator without being disturbed to understand your club carry distances and hopefully swing speed.  With that information we can definitely guide you better.
    • Let us be clear, unless you have proof of cheating, you just sound like a case of sour grapes.  In our club we have a guy who won club titles for many years.  Yes, he was a low single digit handicapper, but there have been quite a few others who played at his level.  Yet his mental strength and experience helped him win in many years when he shouldn't have.  Did he sandbag.  DEFINITELY NOT.  Did he just minimize his mistakes and pull out shots as and when needed.  Definitely.
    • Day 111 - Worked on my grip and higher hands in the backswing. Full swings with the PRGR. 
    • First off please forgive me if this is not a proper post or not in the proper location, still learning the ropes around here. Second, it's important that I mention I am very new to the game with only about 10 rounds of golf under my belt, most being 9 holes. Only this year have I started playing 18. That being said, I am hooked, love the game and am very eager to learn and improve. To give you an idea of my skill, the last 2 18 rounds I played were 110 and 105. Not great at all, however I am slowly improving as I learn. Had been having bad slicing issues with the driver and hybrids but after playing some more and hitting the range, I've been able to improve on that quite a bit and have been hitting more straight on average. Irons have always come easier to me as far as hitting straight for some reason. Wedges have needed a lot of improvement, but I practice chipping about 20-30 mins about 3-5 times a week and that's helped a lot. Today I went to the range and started to note down some distance data, mind you I am averaging the distances based off my best guess compared to the distance markers on the range. I do not currently own a range finder or tracker. From reading some similar posts I do understand that filling gaps is ideal, but I am having a some issues figuring out those gaps and understanding which clubs to keep and remove as some gaps are minimal between clubs. Below is an image of the chart I put together showing the clubs and average distances I've been hitting and power applied. For some reason I am hitting my hybrids around the same distances and I am not sure why. Wondering if one of them should be removed. I didn't notice a huge loft difference either. The irons I have are hand me downs from my grandfather and after playing with them a bit, I feel like they're just not giving me what could potentially be there. The feel is a bit hard/harsh and underwhelming if that makes sense and I can't seem to get decent distances from them. Wondering if I should be looking to invest in some more updated irons and if those should be muscle backs or cavity backs? My knowledge here is minimal. I have never played with modern fairway woods, only the classic clubs that are actually wood and much smaller than modern clubs. I recently removed the 4 and 5 woods from my bag as I was never using them and I don't hit them very well or very far. Wondering if I should look into some more modern fairway wood options? I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to give, please forgive my lack of knowledge. I am eager to learn! Thank you.  
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...