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Mario's Instructor Quiz - Page 2

post #19 of 32
1/12/13 at 8:32pm

Thanks for all the great entries guys.  Unfortunately no one got 100%  d1_bigcry.gif Check out post #3 for our answers.  Fried Egg you were so close, I think you just got mixed up with the spin loft.  It was a common theme for this quiz and if you don't know what it is, it's the difference between the angle of attack and dynamic loft.

 

If you hit a shot with 25 degrees of dynamic loft and you have an AoA of -3 (the 3 is negative because it's a downward hit) your spin loft would be 28 degrees.

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post #20 of 32
1/12/13 at 9:00pm

Really interesting to see the answers. Thanks for the educational thread, mods! Looks like I've got a bit of additional reading to do.

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post #21 of 32
1/12/13 at 9:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EverythingGolf View Post

1.When the golf club hits the golf ball, what's required for the ball to go up in the air?

Back spin

 

2.In a properly struck golf shot, what does the divot tell you?

The direction the club is traveling through impact.

 

3.What primarily determines the starting direction of the golf ball?

The face.

 

4.Can you actually compress a golf ball?

Yes.

 

5.Why is it easier to curve a 4-iron than a sand wedge?

Less loft.

 

6.What makes a golf ball break?

Speed.

 

7.How do you increase backspin on a shot? What has to actually happen?

Hit the ball first, make contact with the ball then the ground, make sure the grooves are clean!

 

8.If you look at any PGA Tour range, almost everyone has a different style of grip, posture, alignment, etc. How are they fundamentals?

Everyone has different style of each.

 

9.At what point in the swing do the hands reach their lowest point?

Bottom of the swing arc.

 

10.With a driver, why does hitting up actually make the ball go farther?

Less spin. You want a positive AoA.

 

I failed :( I needed to learn more about trackman etc......ERIK.... HELP

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post #22 of 32
1/12/13 at 9:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post

Thanks for all the great entries guys.  Unfortunately no one got 100%  d1_bigcry.gif  Check out post #3 for our answers.  Fried Egg you were so close, I think you just got mixed up with the spin loft.  It was a common theme for this quiz and if you don't know what it is, it's the difference between the angle of attack and dynamic loft.

If you hit a shot with 25 degrees of dynamic loft and you have an AoA of -3 (the 3 is negative because it's a downward hit) your spin loft would be 28 degrees.

Have you seen Andrew Rice's findings with chipping and pitching where more spin is generated by actually narrowing the spin loft? Thanks for posting this quiz. Always good to think about certain information that you might take for granted or assume you know when you might not.
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post #23 of 32
1/12/13 at 10:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fried Egg View Post

Have you seen Andrew Rice's findings with chipping and pitching where more spin is generated by actually narrowing the spin loft?

 

Yes. It only really applies to special cases where you can get the edges of the grooves at about 45°, because the corners of the grooves will dig ever so slightly more to help with the backspin. That's why he recommended using a pitching wedge over a lob wedge. You included no such disclaimer or you'd have won. My answers in the third post were our abbreviated answer key - we'd have accepted your answer if you had given my answer and then said "except in some cases such as hitting a low, spinning wedge (see: Andrew Rice blog)" or something.

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post #24 of 32
1/13/13 at 7:58am

Fried Egg's reference to Andrew Rice's stuff got me reading. I found these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDMxoNJjxl4

 

http://www.andrewricegolf.com/2012/06/the-science-behind-superb-wedges-part-i/

 

http://www.andrewricegolf.com/2012/07/the-science-behind-superb-wedges-part-ii/

 

With some qualification, I didn't understand him to be saying that less spin loft causes more spin. Instead, I thought he seemed to be saying that more friction at impact (resulting from ball, lie and clubface conditions) can yield more spin than higher spin-loft/lower friction conditions. In other words, the difference is the amount of friction not the spin loft. I agree, he does say at some point that his students are having success hitting lower lofted wedges - but I didn't see any explanation as to why? Can anyone elaborate please?

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post #25 of 32
1/13/13 at 9:15am

I think the shorthand answer for #7 should just be: Increase the spin loft, hit it harder or hit it lower on the face. I agree you got them all in there in the footnotes, but only by rolling out ceteris paribus. a2_wink.gif

 

Very worthwhile exercise. Thanks Mario!

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post #26 of 32
1/13/13 at 9:53am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by birlyshirly View Post

With some qualification, I didn't understand him to be saying that less spin loft causes more spin.

 

Correct (as I understand everything). It's not so much less spin loft, but rather, an increase in friction - when your spin loft is around 45°, it seems somewhat logical to me that the "corners" are capable of creating the most friction.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by birlyshirly View Post

Instead, I thought he seemed to be saying that more friction at impact (resulting from ball, lie and clubface conditions) can yield more spin than higher spin-loft/lower friction conditions.

 

Yes, basically, the more friction from the grooves, the more the path begins to play a role. It's still never the predominant factor (according to several people who have tested it - they never get the ball to start closer to the path than the face on good contact with even the old wedge grooves - they might with a balata ball of old, but only barely and with grooves that would have completely shredded those balls in one swing), but more friction = more spin, yes. We know this from hitting chip shots from juicy lies. The best lie for a low spinner is actually nearly hardpan because it has no grass to get in the way.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by birlyshirly View Post

I agree, he does say at some point that his students are having success hitting lower lofted wedges - but I didn't see any explanation as to why? Can anyone elaborate please?

 

Again my simple theory is that it inclines the groove corners at 45° or so (to the AoA), which creates more friction.

 

If we plotted a graph showing the contributions to launch angle of AoA and face we'd see a small peak at around those higher-friction conditions where the path contributed upwards of 45% or so, then dropping off where the face contributed more and more so.

 

We've done some testing of all of this on our own, too... ;)

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post

I think the shorthand answer for #7 should just be: Increase the spin loft, hit it harder or hit it lower on the face. I agree you got them all in there in the footnotes, but only by rolling out ceteris paribus. a2_wink.gif

 

Yes, "swing faster" is one of the obvious ones I left out. We probably could have said give the best correct answers, but I think that was understood. ;) Still because we didn't say that we'd have given credit for any of the three legitimate reasons.

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post #27 of 32
1/13/13 at 10:14am

Iacas, I agree. I'm not arguing for my wrong answer. Just thought it was an interesting tidbit and, unfortunately, where my mind was at the time.

 

Birly, I've gone over it a few times and agree that it has more to do with friction than the spin loft. All I can figure is there ideal angle of the club face at impact to generate the most friction, as Iacas said around 45*. And, this is easiest to attain for most people by using a less lofted wedge vs a lob wedge.

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post #28 of 32
1/13/13 at 10:16am

Ok. Never mind. I'm  late to the response as usual.

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post #29 of 32
1/13/13 at 10:56am
In the OP you mention that you and Mario would disagree on the answer to one (possibly 2) of these questions. Would you mind sharing which one and why? Thanks.
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post #30 of 32
1/13/13 at 12:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fried Egg View Post

Iacas, I agree. I'm not arguing for my wrong answer. Just thought it was an interesting tidbit and, unfortunately, where my mind was at the time.

 

I didn't take it that way. It is an interesting tidbit. That's why we have video footage and have done testing of and thinking about the topic. :)

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fried Egg View Post

Birly, I've gone over it a few times and agree that it has more to do with friction than the spin loft. All I can figure is there ideal angle of the club face at impact to generate the most friction, as Iacas said around 45*. And, this is easiest to attain for most people by using a less lofted wedge vs a lob wedge.

 

Yeah, I imagine a graph would go from 0/0 (spin loft/RPM spin) to peak at 45° spin loft or so, then trickle downward gently, perhaps even (theoretically) reaching 0 again at 90/0.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhwarren View Post

In the OP you mention that you and Mario would disagree on the answer to one (possibly 2) of these questions. Would you mind sharing which one and why? Thanks.

 

#8. http://www.facebook.com/groups/5simplekeys/permalink/405778662838808/

 

S&T folks (and to be clear, Mario is S&T, 5SK, TGM, MORAD, AimPoint, etc.) still want to abuse the word "fundamental." We prefer to call them "commonalities" as that word is far more accurate. Grip, alignment, posture, stance are not commonalities of the game's greats, but none of them have what you'd call a poor one of any of those things (as much as we pick on Adam Scott's old setup, it's not bad, it's very functional and not at all like the setups you see when you cruise around a typical practice range somewhere...).

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post #31 of 32
1/13/13 at 12:49pm
The answers take Mario's video from good to great. Thanks very much for posting them. I learned stuff!
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post #32 of 32
1/17/13 at 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil McGleno View Post

2.In a properly struck golf shot, what does the divot tell you?
That unlike 98% of women golfers you're capable of hitting the ground.
 

 

i've been curious about the reasons for this one for awhile.  does anyone have any insight?  i am thinking that forearm strength (or lack thereof) can play a large part.

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