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What Did You Learn From Last Week's Winner on the PGA Tour? - Page 2

post #19 of 63
Thread Starter 
Very nice, concise analyses. Thanks for sharing those.

From looking at Brian Gay's swing, his set-up and posture are what stand out to me. Its an often overlooked facet of the swing. If anyone is trying to keep their back straight and their chin up, read this thread (http://thesandtrap.com/t/56069/good-golf-posture), watch the best players in the world and think about what you are trying to accomplish.
post #20 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhwarren View Post

A really exciting tournament. Congrats to Brian Gay. What a great final round!

 

Here are a couple of his swings:

 

 

 

 

What did you guys think?

 

In the second vidéo he was still doing TGM Hitting (worked with Lynn Blake) and in the first he's more S&T like (I'd be interested to know if he's still mostly hitting, since he does not have that much of a wrist cock).  While he was working with Lynn Blake he was setting up on the Turned Shoulder Plane ("high hands at address") and had minimal plane shift during the swing, He apparently setup on the Hands-Only Plane and return to the Elbow Plane, so large plane shift and flater swing plane at impact.

post #21 of 63

I think we can learn more from the guy who lost (Scott Stallings). The guy had a 6 iron in his hand for the second shot on a par 5 on the 72nd hole, and if he makes birdie he wins. He ended up pulling/hooking the ball to the one place he couldn't, into a lateral water hazard, and ended up making a bogie.

Does anybody think that he didn't have the water hazard primarily in his mind over that shot? Of course he did. He needed better target focus and to keep that hazard completely out of his mind. Hell, I would have been aiming at the stands. The worst he makes is a par.

post #22 of 63
Thread Starter 

Good point. That was definitely a brutal way to lose a tournament.

 

I am not sure what he could have done differently, though. He was in the middle of the fairway with something like 220 in. He's not going to lay up from that position. He could have clubbed up one to a 5 iron. Stallings strikes me as a guy, however, who likes to hit the ball hard. When he won at Greenbrier a couple of years ago, I remember he kept hitting a 9 iron on 18. Most of the field was hitting little 8 irons. He stuffed two in there and won in a playoff. I'm not sure if clubbing up would have been the right answer (I guess it couldn't have worked out any worse for him). Sometimes you just have to bear down and hit a golf shot. And he didn't at that moment.

 

Good thought. What would your strategy have been?
 

post #23 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhwarren View Post

Good point. That was definitely a brutal way to lose a tournament.

 

I am not sure what he could have done differently, though. He was in the middle of the fairway with something like 220 in. He's not going to lay up from that position. He could have clubbed up one to a 5 iron. Stallings strikes me as a guy, however, who likes to hit the ball hard. When he won at Greenbrier a couple of years ago, I remember he kept hitting a 9 iron on 18. Most of the field was hitting little 8 irons. He stuffed two in there and won in a playoff. I'm not sure if clubbing up would have been the right answer (I guess it couldn't have worked out any worse for him). Sometimes you just have to bear down and hit a golf shot. And he didn't at that moment.

 

Good thought. What would your strategy have been?
 

As you suggest, I would have clubbd up. The pin was way back and there was plenty of room to the right and in back of the green. Take the water completely out of play and out of mind. I read a quote somewhere..."Focus on what you want instead of what you don't want. What you have foremost in your mind becomes reality."

He was definitely thinking about the water.

post #24 of 63

After watching some of the great , and not so great shots, that were made in last week's PGA tournament, I learned that if I could hit a ball and have the same course management that they do, I would be playing with them next week.

post #25 of 63

post #26 of 63

Is this question part of some sort of 12-step program?  It sure sounds like someone's got an awful lot of spare time on his hands.

post #27 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisguy View Post

Is this question part of some sort of 12-step program?  It sure sounds like someone's got an awful lot of spare time on his hands.

 

What makes you say that?

 

Why do you hate your golf instructor?

 

Is your slice caused by your setup, or a deeper cry for help?

 

Tea or coffee?

post #28 of 63
Thread Starter 
Stretch , you got one on Tiger yet?
post #29 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhwarren View Post

Stretch , you got one on Tiger yet?

post #30 of 63

I said this yesterday... Tiger's swing is very - very steep.  And James does a solid job of highlighting it.  

post #31 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by WWBDD View Post

 

What makes you say that?

 

Why do you hate your golf instructor?

 

Is your slice caused by your setup, or a deeper cry for help?

 

Tea or coffee?

A)  It's an odd, presumptuous, full-of-oneself title, assuming that if one watched the PGA event, one must have done so for the purpose of education rather than entertainment.  There is somewhat of an implication of contempt for those who, gasp! sat down, turned on the Farmers, and did nothing more than relax while watching Tiger win his 8th tournament at Torrey Pines.  A far better title would have been an open-ended question "Did you learn anything from watching last week's winner on the PGA tour?"  Is there a clear connection with being presumptuous and being in a 12-step program? Certainly not, but some that are completing such programs adopt a holier-than-thou attitude about it.  I think there must have been a group therapy session scene in a movie or TV show I once saw that inspired this comment last night, but I can't think of it right now. 

 

B)  I have no golf instructor, nor do I share the puzzling passion or contempt that some of the members of this site seem to have for certain well-known golf instructors.  What I do know about the various and sundry golf instructors whose pearls of golf wisdom grace the monthly issues of Golf Digest, etc...  is that most of them do not seem capable of regularly describing clearly what the cause of a golf problem is and what the solution should be in any sense that most people can read the several paragraphs of instruction, think for a moment, conclude that the pointers are simple and logical, keep those pointers in their heads the next time they hit the course or range, and put the tip(s) to good use.  There also seems to be a minimum of 23 markedly different "cures" for any one given problem, which adds to the confusion.   At least that's always been the case for me and for every friend of mine who golfs with whom I've discussed golf magazine instructional articles.  Of course, we may all be dense hacks, though.

 

C)  If I could list for you each of the numerous and variable reasons why I slice as much as I do, odds are good that I'd do it a lot less.  I do intend to get some help.  I figure a lesson this spring may pay for itself in reduction of balls hit into hazards.

 

D)  I'm not someone with a high tolerance for arrogant, silly and/or foolish people.  If that bothers you, kindly refrain from self-absorbed or foolish behavior and we'll get along just fine.

post #32 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisguy View Post

A)  It's an odd, presumptuous, full-of-oneself title, assuming that if one watched the PGA event, one must have done so for the purpose of education rather than entertainment.  There is somewhat of an implication of contempt for those who, gasp! sat down, turned on the Farmers, and did nothing more than relax while watching Tiger win his 8th tournament at Torrey Pines.  A far better title would have been an open-ended question "Did you learn anything from watching last week's winner on the PGA tour?"  Is there a clear connection with being presumptuous and being in a 12-step program? Certainly not, but some that are completing such programs adopt a holier-than-thou attitude about it.  I think there must have been a group therapy session scene in a movie or TV show I once saw that inspired this comment last night, but I can't think of it right now. 

 

B)  I have no golf instructor, nor do I share the puzzling passion or contempt that some of the members of this site seem to have for certain well-known golf instructors.  What I do know about the various and sundry golf instructors whose pearls of golf wisdom grace the monthly issues of Golf Digest, etc...  is that most of them do not seem capable of regularly describing clearly what the cause of a golf problem is and what the solution should be in any sense that most people can read the several paragraphs of instruction, think for a moment, conclude that the pointers are simple and logical, keep those pointers in their heads the next time they hit the course or range, and put the tip(s) to good use.  There also seems to be a minimum of 23 markedly different "cures" for any one given problem, which adds to the confusion.   At least that's always been the case for me and for every friend of mine who golfs with whom I've discussed golf magazine instructional articles.  Of course, we may all be dense hacks, though.

 

C)  If I could list for you each of the numerous and variable reasons why I slice as much as I do, odds are good that I'd do it a lot less.  I do intend to get some help.  I figure a lesson this spring may pay for itself in reduction of balls hit into hazards.

 

D)  I'm not someone with a high tolerance for arrogant, silly and/or foolish people.  If that bothers you, kindly refrain from self-absorbed or foolish behavior and we'll get along just fine.

Do you have any mirrors in your home? I suggest you use them because, if you have that much of a problem with the title of the thread, you had the choice to  ignore it and move on instead of being arrogant, silly and/or foolish about it.

...time on his hands, indeed...

post #33 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by phan52 View Post

Do you have any mirrors in your home? I suggest you use them because, if you have that much of a problem with the title of the thread, you had the choice to  ignore it and move on instead of being arrogant, silly and/or foolish about it.

...time on his hands, indeed...

Yes, and you (wisguy) will find that most of the people in this particular thread agree with Phan here.  We come here because we like it and want to contribute, not to piss on the OP for no apparent reason.

 

Back to the topic ...

 

The thing that impressed me the most was Tiger's scrambling.  He drove the ball like a 15 handicapper for about 7 or 8 of the holes, putting himself in some absurd positions, yet somehow managed to dink it around that place for an even par 72.  (Of course, being in a PGA tour event helps because he would have had to play it from god knows where on #9 if it weren't for all the tents. ;))

post #34 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

Yes, and you (wisguy) will find that most of the people in this particular thread agree with Phan here.  We come here because we like it and want to contribute, not to piss on the OP for no apparent reason.

 

Back to the topic ...

 

The thing that impressed me the most was Tiger's scrambling.  He drove the ball like a 15 handicapper for about 7 or 8 of the holes, putting himself in some absurd positions, yet somehow managed to dink it around that place for an even par 72.  (Of course, being in a PGA tour event helps because he would have had to play it from god knows where on #9 if it weren't for all the tents. ;))

Tiger knows that course very welll and he knows where he can miss it. The thing that stuck with me was how he has dialed in his wedges. It was a problem for him at times last season but, this weekend, there were numerous shots that could have easily gone in the hole. Maybe I'm wrong, but it appears that he has taken his swing with the wedges down a gear and doesn't go at it quite as hard.

post #35 of 63
Thread Starter 

I guess as the author of the question and thread I have some sort of obligation to defend myself and my position. Although, really all I did was pose a golf-related question onto a golf forum.

Oh well, here we go...

 

First of all, I must say that when I read WWBD's post, the one that Wisguy quoted, answered the questions from and started this whole tangent, I thought that WWBD was agreeing with Wisguy. I took his post to be sarcastic. Maybe I misread it. Anyways, your main issue seems to be with me, as the original poster. I am a little confused as to what the issue truly is. It seems to be either a problem with the wording of the question or a problem with the entire intent of the question. So, I will address those separately.

 

On the wording of the question, here is your response...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisguy View Post

 A far better title would have been an open-ended question "Did you learn anything from watching last week's winner on the PGA tour?"  Is there a clear connection with being presumptuous and being in a 12-step program? Certainly not, but some that are completing such programs adopt a holier-than-thou attitude about it.  I think there must have been a group therapy session scene in a movie or TV show I once saw that inspired this comment last night, but I can't think of it right now. 

 

Fair enough. I like your question, as well. It is really getting at the same point. I would have no issue if the moderators felt like changing the title to "Did You Learn..."

I would, however, encourage you to look up the definition of an "open-ended question." It is a question that encourages further discussion, or more commonly, a question that can not be answered with a "yes" or "no" response. Simply by the nature of the phrase any question that begins "Did you..." can be be answered with a "yes" or a "no." So while I have no issue with your question, I don't think that you can disregard my question as not being open-ended. I am not looking to have a battle over semantics, however, so this is not a big deal. It leads to the next reason, which must be at the heart of your complaint.

 

The intent of the thread is not to say that you can not sit down and enjoy watching the golf tournament. It was certainly not to "imply contempt" or come off as "arrogant or full-of-oneself." It was simply meant to be a place that people could share if they did in fact notice something during the tournament that could help them in their own game. For example, let's say we have a golfer who has decided that in order to play better, he must keep his lead arm rigid and straight. He has always heard and read that is important. He struggles with this new move. He comes on to this thread and sees two different people have posted videos of two different professional golfers, competing and winning at the highest level, who do not keep their lead arm rigid and straight. Maybe you or I don't get anything out of watching golf. That's alright. This is just meant to be a thread where people can share if they did.

 

The last thing i will say will address the "arrogant or full-of-oneself" comments. I would argue that one of the least arrogant or full-of-oneself things someone could do is to observe and learn from others. What ever the profession, a teacher can learn a lot from watching and learning from other great teachers. Same thing for a mechanic or an engineer or anything. Realizing that others are great at something and trying to get better by watching that person in action is the opposite of full-of-oneself, in my opinion. I would be happy to discuss this further if needed, but i would much rather get back on topic.

 

Any comments on the Tiger analysis by James Ridyard?

post #36 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachcomber View Post

I said this yesterday... Tiger's swing is very - very steep.  And James does a solid job of highlighting it.  

 

Define "steep" in this context.

 

I wouldn't call his swing "steep." It's steeper than it has been in the past because in the past he was looping it up, out, and under - the under part is a fairly "flat" plane, all else equal.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisguy View Post

A)  It's an odd, presumptuous, full-of-oneself title, assuming that if one watched the PGA event, one must have done so for the purpose of education rather than entertainment.

 

It's a pity you took this tactic. I think it's a great thread, and I don't think it assumes any such thing. Your post was both rude and wildly off topic. I award you no points, sir, and everyone here is now dumber for having read it.

 

Anyway, I wasn't able to catch much, but I suppose what I learned is that sometimes an eight-shot lead has its advantages. :)

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