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Johnny Miller: Ben Hogan's Real Secret

cipher

By cipher,
in Instruction and Playing Tips

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cipher Super Member

cipher

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I should clarify, please do not post what you think Ben Hogan's secret was.  There are plenty of dead end posts for that.  The what do you think, is in regards to the tip.

Nate

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shortstop20 Great Member

shortstop20

I think that was just an idiosyncrasy Hogan had that other people have followed. Getting to that finish position might help someone who fights the hooks straighten out their ball flight though.

 - Joel

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onephenom Dedicated Member

onephenom

I think he doesn't know why that helped (if it helps at all, or really is just an idiosyncrasy). Well... clearly he didn't, because he doesn't know ball flight laws. Maybe trying to get to that follow through promotes a slight out to in, which leads to a fade... but not because it opens the face. Either way, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

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2013: play in the US amateur qualifier

 

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cipher Super Member

cipher

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Originally Posted by onephenom

I think he doesn't know why that helped (if it helps at all, or really is just an idiosyncrasy). Well... clearly he didn't, because he doesn't know ball flight laws. Maybe trying to get to that follow through promotes a slight out to in, which leads to a fade... but not because it opens the face. Either way, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Yeah what is funny about it is that he describes it as if the follow through motion and how you hold your club at the end is what promotes the shot shape.

Nate

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apex53 Dedicated Member

apex53

The picture they used on the Golf Magazine iPad app version isn't even Hogan. It's a picture of Jack Fleck.

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boogielicious Incredible Member

boogielicious

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I wonder how much he got paid for that?

Scott

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onephenom Dedicated Member

onephenom

Originally Posted by boogielicious

I wonder how much he got paid for that?

If he gets paid to give bad advice, why can't I get paid for giving good advice?

Driver: 10.5* callaway Razr Hawk Tour - 350 yards(usually into the wind, it can be windy here. at least 400 with a little wind behind me)

Hybrids: 2 and 3 callaway Hybrid razr tour (312 and 287 respectively)

Irons: 3i-10i callaway forged standard length(278, 263, 250, 235, 221, 213, 201, 190)

Wedges: callaway jaws cc 52* 12 approach, 56* 16 sand, 60* 13 lob (0-185)

Odyssey Black tour #9 putter(5 ft, i'm always at least within 5 feet on my approach shot)

I wonder who on this forum is a PGA tour pro, disguised as a normal player.. 

2013: play in the US amateur qualifier

 

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logman Dedicated Member

logman

Originally Posted by onephenom

I think he doesn't know why that helped (if it helps at all, or really is just an idiosyncrasy). Well... clearly he didn't, because he doesn't know ball flight laws. Maybe trying to get to that follow through promotes a slight out to in, which leads to a fade... but not because it opens the face. Either way, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

I don't understand. Isn't he saying that finishing with the palm facing the target likely to open the face and therefor create a cut. I would agree with that. And why do you say he doesn't understand the ball flight laws?

Taking the above advice may lead to destruction of your golf game. Laughing at it may reduce stress.

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onephenom Dedicated Member

onephenom

Originally Posted by logman

I don't understand. Isn't he saying that finishing with the palm facing the target likely to open the face and therefor create a cut. I would agree with that. And why do you say he doesn't understand the ball flight laws?

Having the clubface open doesn't create a cut. Having an out to in path does. So he doesn't understand the http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

Driver: 10.5* callaway Razr Hawk Tour - 350 yards(usually into the wind, it can be windy here. at least 400 with a little wind behind me)

Hybrids: 2 and 3 callaway Hybrid razr tour (312 and 287 respectively)

Irons: 3i-10i callaway forged standard length(278, 263, 250, 235, 221, 213, 201, 190)

Wedges: callaway jaws cc 52* 12 approach, 56* 16 sand, 60* 13 lob (0-185)

Odyssey Black tour #9 putter(5 ft, i'm always at least within 5 feet on my approach shot)

I wonder who on this forum is a PGA tour pro, disguised as a normal player.. 

2013: play in the US amateur qualifier

 

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shortstop20 Great Member

shortstop20

Having the clubface open doesn't create a cut. Having an out to in path does. So he doesn't understand the [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws]http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws[/URL]

A cut can be hit with any path. The face simply needs to be open to that path.

 - Joel

TM M3 10.5 | TM M3 17 | Adams A12 3-4 hybrid | Mizuno JPX 919 Tour 5-PW

Vokey 50/54/60 | Odyssey Stroke Lab 7s | Bridgestone Tour B XS

Home Courses - Willow Run & Bakker Crossing

 

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onephenom Dedicated Member

onephenom

Originally Posted by shortstop20

A cut can be hit with any path. The face simply needs to be open to that path.

Sorry, no that's not true. Read the ball flight laws posted above

Driver: 10.5* callaway Razr Hawk Tour - 350 yards(usually into the wind, it can be windy here. at least 400 with a little wind behind me)

Hybrids: 2 and 3 callaway Hybrid razr tour (312 and 287 respectively)

Irons: 3i-10i callaway forged standard length(278, 263, 250, 235, 221, 213, 201, 190)

Wedges: callaway jaws cc 52* 12 approach, 56* 16 sand, 60* 13 lob (0-185)

Odyssey Black tour #9 putter(5 ft, i'm always at least within 5 feet on my approach shot)

I wonder who on this forum is a PGA tour pro, disguised as a normal player.. 

2013: play in the US amateur qualifier

 

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EverythingGolf Dedicated Member

EverythingGolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by onephenom

Sorry, no that's not true. Read the ball flight laws posted above

Shortstop is correct, the path is all that matters. I can aim off the planet and still hit a fade/cut as long as my face is open to the path.

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"Golf is not a game of great shots. It's a game of the most accurate misses.

The people who win make the smallest mistakes." - Gene Littler

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iacas Hall of Fame Member

iacas

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Originally Posted by shortstop20

A cut can be hit with any path. The face simply needs to be open to that path.

Originally Posted by onephenom

Sorry, no that's not true. Read the ball flight laws posted above

It is true. And given a path of whatever, a face that's "open" to it will produce a cut. It's not a bad article - it's just one I don't think most golfers need (since most golfers hit cuts or slices already).

The path only has to be "out to in" relative to the face. Which is the same as saying face open to path.

Again, for a year or so now, we're trying to use words the way they tend to be heard:

Relative to target we'll say right or left.

Relative to path we'll say open or closed.

So to hit a playable draw (for a RHG), there are two ways to say it:

1) The clubface is right of the target, with the path farther to the right.

2) The clubface is right of the target, but closed to the path.

Reverse for a playable fade.

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cipher Super Member

cipher

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I think the article is actually pretty bad, because it describes the follow through basically as the reason for the fade.  What he is getting at may be accurate but he never says it.  Any weekend duffer trying to make sense of it, I think would be confused.  What the follow through basically promotes is holding the face open longer in relation to the swing path, but he never says that or offers any explanation as to what doing something after you have already hit the ball has an affect on how the ball moves.  I agree that it is kind of a useless tip even if he had presented it correctly, because most people already hit fades.

Nate

:pxg:(10.5) :benhogan:(4W):titleist:U500(3UI) :benhogan: Icon(4-PW) :edel:(52/58)

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saevel25 Incredible Member

saevel25

Well it develops a feel, a Hogan might have felt he had to get to that position to hold off his hook that he battled with. So he wasn't trying to feel impact, but just ending up at a position in the finish that got the shot he wanted.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
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shortstop20 Great Member

shortstop20

Originally Posted by onephenom

Sorry, no that's not true. Read the ball flight laws posted above


LOL. The ball doesn't have a clue what kind of path it has been hit with, whether it be inside-out or outside-in because the ball doesn't know what your stance line is. It reacts based on whether the face is open, square or closed to the path.

 - Joel

TM M3 10.5 | TM M3 17 | Adams A12 3-4 hybrid | Mizuno JPX 919 Tour 5-PW

Vokey 50/54/60 | Odyssey Stroke Lab 7s | Bridgestone Tour B XS

Home Courses - Willow Run & Bakker Crossing

 

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