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How good can you get at golf with a fundamentally bad swing? - Page 2

post #19 of 63

My swing was very bad think Charles Barkly.  My divots have sometimes been perpendicular to the target line. I have been able to score in the mid 80s but not on a consist basis.  Mostly by putting and chipping well

post #20 of 63

Here's the thing, an ugly swing is not a fundamentally bad swing. 

 

Its nearly impossible to play golf with a fundamentally bad swing. You might get a good day, compensate with hand eye coordination, but mostly you'll be bad at golf. Even if your the best putter in the world, you will still be mediocre at golf at best. 

post #21 of 63
Quote:
How good can you get at golf with a fundamentally bad swing?

 

In my experience you plateau (in my case shooting in the 80s - low 80s at best - and I can't break 80).

 

Rather than spending the money, time, and effort in getting lessons from a Pro, I "just worked something out" on the range when I returned to golf a few years ago. I started closing the face to cut off the slice and get the ball moving in a straight line off the club-face. That was 5 years ago.

 

The repercussions of this poor decision?

 

I've had to develop a way of knowing how far to close the face depending on the club: severely closed for fairway woods and 3,4 irons; quite closed for the 5 iron; less so for the 6,7,8; setting up square for the 9iron and PW. This is also a highly individualized "rule of thumb" in terms of my own clubs. I played with rented clubs on vacation once, and the results weren't pretty.

 

Closing the face severely and the resultant de-lofting causes other problems (the need to tee a fairway wood higher than necessary - hence miss-hits can produce ugly sky-balls).

 

I can't hit a draw to save my life. Shot shape is limited to straight balls and fades (chocked slices would be a better description). A dog-leg left requires a laid up tee-shot, and then one or more strokes to the green depending on the length of the hole. Unless it's a short par 4 there's no chance of me making the green in regulation.

 

Worst of all: when I'm playing well and swinging on a decent plane, I still correct for the slice. Hence, my very best shots become ugly hooks. If I take off the correction and happen to lose the swing plane, a slice will result - and therefore I go back to the closed club-face correction.

 

I think when I do find the time/money to get lessons, I've probably made the teaching pro's task much harder, and set my golf back a long way.

 

There's a line somewhere in Nicklaus's Golf My Way about the dangers of "band-aid" type solutions to golf. Truer words were never written.

 

So, to answer your question: "How good can you get at golf with a fundamentally bad swing?" My answer would be: you can get around the course; you can maybe reach a level where you can play competently as a high-handicapper; you will become reliant on quick fixes to your swing that aren't real fixes, and also the comfort of playing one or more familiar courses; anything that places you outside these comfort zones will cause your game to fall apart; and ultimately you will get frustrated with your golf, because you reach a plateau and can never improve beyond that point.

 

Probably time to go get lessons if you have a bad swing.


Edited by ScouseJohnny - 3/4/13 at 1:05pm
post #22 of 63
I read an old interview once with Kathy Whitworth and she said "you can't hit the ball in the air with a bad swing." So if a swing is unorthodox, but is repeatable and hits the ball in the air with reasonable and consistent distance and direction, it can't be "bad" and you can probably get pretty good results if you have a good short game- and play the same course often enough to adapt to it.
post #23 of 63

My swing is super-flawed: way too much arms, not enough body turn, etc. But, when I play consistently enough, I know what I need to do to make solid contact with the ball and get it going in the right direction with solid distance, and my scores lower.

 

I mean, I'm usually not breaking 90 or anything, but that's because I only get to play 2-3 times per month. With that kind of schedule I see no reason to invest in trying to make my swing "right."

 

The way I figure it, if you find something that works for you and is comfortable for you, then you can make the most of it if you want.

post #24 of 63

Fundamentally wrong swing will never break 100.

 

Flawed swing will break 90 if moderately consistent.

 

Flawed super consistent swing can should a couple over par.

 

You will never play scratch without minimal flaws and super consistency.

 

----

 

I believe it is easier to get to minimal flaws than super consistency. 

post #25 of 63

I think you have to define fundamentally bad swing.  There are lots of guys on tour that have "ugly" or "unorthodox" swings.  Some have even won majors.

 

I'm a neophyte at golf so I could be wrong, but I think the key (no pun intended), is can you consistently reproduce the swing to get the desired result on each shot.  If you can produce the accuracy, shot shape, etc. I think you can probably score very well - IMHO.

post #26 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecollar01 View Post

I think you have to define fundamentally bad swing.  There are lots of guys on tour that have "ugly" or "unorthodox" swings.  Some have even won majors.

 

I'm a neophyte at golf so I could be wrong, but I think the key (no pun intended), is can you consistently reproduce the swing to get the desired result on each shot.  If you can produce the accuracy, shot shape, etc. I think you can probably score very well - IMHO.


A fundamentally bad swing IMO is one that does not allow you to make good contact with the ball consistently. As you say there are players on the PGA Tour with unorthodox swings but they consistently make solid contact and they know where the ball is going. Tommy Gainey was mentioned and of course Jim Furyk is the poster boy for this. Of course they are both better than 99.99% of golfers.

post #27 of 63

I think you can get very good.

 

1. This gentleman I play with has been playing for 35 years. Great short game and consistency. Here is his swing

 

 

 

 

2. This kid I play with has been playing for 12 years. Here is his swing

 

 

 

What do you think are their handicaps ?

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

1)   5.4 Index

2)   6.5 Index

 

post #28 of 63

These swings are both ok in my eyes (as an amateur). First one looks like someone in the region 6-11, second one could be scratch to me.

post #29 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by atanum View Post

I think you can get very good.

1. This gentleman I play with has been playing for 35 years. Great short game and consistency. Here is his swing






2. This kid I play with has been playing for 12 years. Here is his swing





What do you think are their handicaps ?

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
1)   5.4 Index
2)   6.5 Index

That's a really nice practice facility in the second one. Where is it.
post #30 of 63
post #31 of 63
post #32 of 63

Big John looks like someone I played with a couple of years agoa3_biggrin.gif

 

I played for the first time in Florida and when I showed up the next time, he said "up for some digging again Frank?'

 

Difficult to say, but can't be to consistent both. I'd say Big John a 20 and the other guy a 14?

post #33 of 63
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDutch View Post

Big John looks like someone I played with a couple of years agoa3_biggrin.gif

 

I played for the first time in Florida and when I showed up the next time, he said "up for some digging again Frank?'

 

Difficult to say, but can't be to consistent both. I'd say Big John a 20 and the other guy a 14?


I don't understand where "Mike Driver" has a fundamentally bad swing.  It looks pretty solid and repeatable.

post #34 of 63
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecollar01 View Post

I think you have to define fundamentally bad swing.  There are lots of guys on tour that have "ugly" or "unorthodox" swings.  Some have even won majors.

 

I'm a neophyte at golf so I could be wrong, but I think the key (no pun intended), is can you consistently reproduce the swing to get the desired result on each shot.  If you can produce the accuracy, shot shape, etc. I think you can probably score very well - IMHO.


The generally accepted logic (and by general I mean the three people in my head; me, myself, and I) believe that all good golfers have a similar look at impact.  It will vary from player to player before and after, but I have been lead to believe that all good golfers look similar at impact (hands in front of the ball, weight transitioned onto the front half of the body, body rotating towards the target, club making contact with the ball first on a downward path)

post #35 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by clearwaterms View Post


I don't understand where "Mike Driver" has a fundamentally bad swing.  It looks pretty solid and repeatable.

 

Disclaimer I am nowhere near a pro. But I think his head is moving a lot.

post #36 of 63

I got down to a 5 or better with a not so good swing.  I was consistently shooting mid to high 70s.  But I've always had a really good feel with my short game and putting has always been one of my stronger areas, so I got away with a lot of bad shots.  Even with a bad swing, you can get consistent as long as you know what your ball is going to do.  I always had the same misses which meant I could plan my way around the course and still shoot descent even though watching my swing on camera was painful.

 

The biggest problem I found with this is when I started trying to play in State tournaments.  In my opinion, this is when the bad swing will start falling apart....or at least for me.  Once there is a lot of pressure on you, the bad fundamentals will start showing you why they are bad fundamentals.

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