how many people do you know that lie about their score? - Page 4

Come on guys.  Let's put this one to bed and get back on topic.  Tuff and I have shaken hands and made up on PM, so let's get this back on track.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoganwoods 

It all depends I guess.  I've played with alot of strangers who had no clue how to keep a proper score.  If I had to guess, most of them do it so that they dont get too frustrated by putting a big number on the scorecard. When you put a 10 on the card early it can ruin your mood. These people will usually always give themselves gimmes, free drops, ignore Out of Bounds..etc.. It used to bother me but not anymore.  Unless we play for money, then I will open my mouth and let you know.  Last year some guy was brought along for our saturday money game and was giving himself 4 foot putts!  He would have a bad hole then give himself huge gimmes or free drops.  The guy was very angry.  But of course, he wasn't as angry as when I told him to go back and putt out his 4 footer or concede the hole. lol

 

Personally I do not understand this psychology.  Putting a 10 on the card can ruin someone's mood?  To me GETTING a 10 will ruin my mood.  Making believe it didn't happen doesn't make me feel better.

Sorry for the newbie question, but are "gimmes" ok in match play?  I'm reading John Feinstein's book "A Good Walk Spoiled" and in describing a Ryder Cup match he talks about Seve Ballesteros telling Davis Love "that's good" on a put and, in another match, talks about Faldo conceding the hole because the American player only needed to two putt from 8 feet to win the hole.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1484 

Sorry for the newbie question, but are "gimmes" ok in match play?  I'm reading John Feinstein's book "A Good Walk Spoiled" and in describing a Ryder Cup match he talks about Seve Ballesteros telling Davis Love "that's good" on a put and, in another match, talks about Faldo conceding the hole because the American player only needed to two putt from 8 feet to win the hole.

Yes, in match play you may concede your opponents next shot, or concede the hole. 

You can't do it in stroke play because anyone you're playing with is not your opponent, and is instead a fellow competitor. It's not fair to the rest of the field to be conceding strokes, especially if you consider two good mates playing together.

What Mordan said basically. In match play "gimmes" are absolutely fine.

Just keep in mind that your opponent has no obligation to give you a gimme so a nice opponent might give you a gimme from 5 feet or more if he knows you're a good putter whereas a stricter opponent might insist you put in everything over half a foot.

If you haven't heard your opponent call gimme as you're approaching your 3 foot putt have a look up at them to see if they'll offer it to you. Don't get annoyed if they insist you take it. Best way is to try and gauge with your opponent what you think is fair early in the match, or preferably before you start. Depends if you know each other and have a good idea of how good you each are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfly777 

What Mordan said basically. In match play "gimmes" are absolutely fine.

 

Just keep in mind that your opponent has no obligation to give you a gimme so a nice opponent might give you a gimme from 5 feet or more if he knows you're a good putter whereas a stricter opponent might insist you put in everything over half a foot.

 

If you haven't heard your opponent call gimme as you're approaching your 3 foot putt have a look up at them to see if they'll offer it to you. Don't get annoyed if they insist you take it. Best way is to try and gauge with your opponent what you think is fair early in the match, or preferably before you start. Depends if you know each other and have a good idea of how good you each are.

And the way for them to know that you're a good putter is to make putts. 

If your match play opponent sees you virtually begging for any putt outside of a foot, he's going to know that you're uncomfortable with those nasty little 2 foot sliders and trust me, you'll be putting every one of them.  If you walk up to the first couple without even checking to see if he's going to give it to you, and knock it into the back of the hole like it's no big deal, he's a lot more likely to give it to you later on.

BTW.....the best way to get confident over those nasty little 2 foot sliders in competitive match play, is to putt them all out in your more casual rounds with your buddies! 

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1484 

Sorry for the newbie question, but are "gimmes" ok in match play?  I'm reading John Feinstein's book "A Good Walk Spoiled" and in describing a Ryder Cup match he talks about Seve Ballesteros telling Davis Love "that's good" on a put and, in another match, talks about Faldo conceding the hole because the American player only needed to two putt from 8 feet to win the hole.

In match play, it's just you against your opponent (or you and your partner against an opponent and his partner).  Everyone in the immediate competition is in the group, so any decisions made can only effect the outcome of that one match.  Concessions are the most obvious difference between match play and stroke play, but there are others.  If you see your opponent breach a rule, you can call him on it, or if it doesn't seem to impact the play of the hole, you can just ignore it.  The two of you cannot conspire to ignore or waive a rule, but if he is in breach and isn't aware of it (or even worse, he is trying to get away with it), you can choose to call it or not.  No one is affected by his act or by your decision except the two of you.

In a stroke play competition you have a large field of players and anything you do in your group can potentially affect someone else in the field.  For that reason, the rules are more rigidly enforced in stroke play.  If you witness a player making an infraction, you are honor bound to call it on him to protect the field, even if it doesn't seem to directly affect you.  Someone else in another group may be adversely affected if a player gains an advantage because the rules aren't enforced evenly across the board.

Gimme's can be part of your strategy in match play.  If you know your opponent isn't very comfortable with shorter putts, you can give him the shorter putts when they don't matter to prevent him from practicing and building confidence with them. 

When the time comes where you need him to miss one, then you can make him putt it.  The goal being that the lack of practice and additional pressure will result in a miss. 

Yeah when I played my first 18 holes in years a couple of months ago I scored it as an 86 but knew well that on a few of the holes I wasn't sure of the rules and so might need to add penalty strokes. So when people asked me what I shot I said that I scored it as an 86 but with rules infractions it should be 88-91.

I didn't see the benefit of giving myself a better score because if I'd played with the same people and shot a 92 they'd have known my 86 was dodgy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfly777 

Yeah when I played my first 18 holes in years a couple of months ago I scored it as an 86 but knew well that on a few of the holes I wasn't sure of the rules and so might need to add penalty strokes. So when people asked me what I shot I said that I scored it as an 86 but with rules infractions it should be 88-91.

 

I didn't see the benefit of giving myself a better score because if I'd played with the same people and shot a 92 they'd have known my 86 was dodgy.

I don't get this - your score should not depend on a whim or upon how you or someone else feels like scoring it.  You count all strokes, both those off the clubface and those that are penalty strokes.  It should be pretty straightforward. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wisguy 

I don't get this - your score should not depend on a whim or upon how you or someone else feels like scoring it.  You count all strokes, both those off the clubface and those that are penalty strokes.  It should be pretty straightforward. 

Well it's clearly not straightforward otherwise you wouldn't see the pros asking scoring officials what to do, or even further, making mistakes and getting extra penalty strokes or even disqualified for getting it wrong.

Spend about 5 minutes searching the web and you'll find thousands of people asking experts about how they should have scored a point in their round from the previous day.

Seeing as you're a 26 handicap I'm assuming you haven't memorised all 220 pages of the "Rules of Golf 2012-2015" either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfly777 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wisguy 

I don't get this - your score should not depend on a whim or upon how you or someone else feels like scoring it.  You count all strokes, both those off the clubface and those that are penalty strokes.  It should be pretty straightforward. 

 

Well it's clearly not straightforward otherwise you wouldn't see the pros asking scoring officials what to do, or even further, making mistakes and getting extra penalty strokes or even disqualified for getting it wrong.

 

Spend about 5 minutes searching the web and you'll find thousands of people asking experts about how they should have scored a point in their round from the previous day.

 

Seeing as you're a 26 handicap I'm assuming you haven't memorised all 220 pages of the "Rules of Golf 2012-2015" either.

Just FYI, almost nobody memorizes the Rules of Golf (and there's really just 106 pages that count for general play - you don't need to memorize the club measurements and local rules, etc.).  What we do is study them enough to handle most normal situations and to know where to look when we don't have the answer right at hand.  We have several members here, myself included, who have worked as on course rules officials, and we carry the rule book and the decisions book with us when we work a tournament.  95% of the time I don't need the book to make a ruling, not because I have the book memorized, but because I understand the rules and procedures and how they are applied.  

Most of those pros know the rules quite well too, but the money they play for makes it a good idea to cover their bets by getting an official involved when there is any doubt at all.  They take drops and follow basic procedures all the time without such assistance, but it's rarely seen on TV.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt 

 

Just FYI, almost nobody memorizes the Rules of Golf (and there's really just 106 pages that count for general play - you don't need to memorize the club measurements and local rules, etc.).  What we do is study them enough to handle most normal situations and to know where to look when we don't have the answer right at hand.  We have several members here, myself included, who have worked as on course rules officials, and we carry the rule book and the decisions book with us when we work a tournament.  95% of the time I don't need the book to make a ruling, not because I have the book memorized, but because I understand the rules and procedures and how they are applied.  

 

Most of those pros know the rules quite well too, but the money they play for makes it a good idea to cover their bets by getting an official involved when there is any doubt at all.  They take drops and follow basic procedures all the time without such assistance, but it's rarely seen on TV.

Obviously I wouldn't expect any typical golfer to memorise the entire thing and that only proves my point that not everyone knows the rules all the time. If you're with a playing partner I'd always suggest asking them if they know the rule/penalty but in a friendly game you can't always ask the group behind you to wait 5 minutes while you finger through the rule book for something you could just as easily resolve after your round retrospectively. I don't see any issue with that as long as it's agreed thats what you're doing.

Of course if you're in a tournament or you're using the round for handicap scoring then that's a different matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL 


It's worth reminding our friends across the pond, that unlike in the U.K., IN the U.S. all rounds must be posted for handicap purposes.

I didn't know that. Thanks for saying.

Is that even if you're playing on your own?

In the UK you need to have someone of standing (ie. fellow club member) at least walking around with you to verify your score for handicapping.