Originally Posted by Golfingdad
Sorry, didn't mean to sound arrogant, just think that you're underestimating the potential of the average golfer (including yourself).
sorry you weren't totally arrogant (maybe a strong word), but some people are obviously more talented at the game than others, which has to be a consideration.
Originally Posted by Dave2512
Considering just about every pro works with an instructor it's safe to say good ball strikers benefit from instruction.
I golf with the mid 90's folks all the time. Everyone is a little different but the biggest difference between their game and mine is course management. Quite a few are capable of lower scores but they take unnecessary risks. Which often leads to more risky shots in an attempt to make up lost ground. Always starts with the driver. A bad tee shot leads to a succession of bad shots because they get into trouble, and it's never because they hit it too long.
definitely not going to disagree with you guys entirely. course management and instructions are certainly helpful, but i still think there are elements of golf that are just going to trump anything you learn or choose to do. here is a great example, i'd like to hear thoughts...
so i was playing yesterday, 375y par 4 with the wind strongly in my face and a little to the right, probably around 25mph. i hit a 3w (which i usually hit very low) towards the left side of the fairway, about halfway of it's traveled distance the ball shot up in the air and far right, all the way out of bounds (i never found it). the wind was obviously much stronger above the tree line i couldn't see. well i hit a provisional and played it. i was then in the middle of the fairway and the path to the green was 130y but a thin opening. i hit an 8i into the wind and started it as far left as i could without hitting into the forest, and the ball still ballooned up and pushed right into the forest on the other side of the fairway. now i'm on my 6th shot at the edge of the forest, but behind trees. tried to hit a low punch 7i and it rolled into the bunker at the lip. tried to hit it out, hit the lip and went back in the bunker. next shot got it out, then 2 putted for a 10.
now, i don't think lessons could have helped me here at all. course management MAYBE, but not the first tee shot since carry over the water was 210y, so i had to hit a 3w (although water would have been better than forest, which maybe would have been the wiser choice?). the only course management help may have been on my fairway shot, instead of a high 8i, hit a low half 4i to avoid the effects of the wind above the tree line. other than that, the other things that could have maybe helped me score better would have been a 1 putt instead of 2 and maybe if my 7i punch out hadn't rolled into the bunker. and i know what you guys might say, "should have hit the 7i punch away from the bunker," but i looked at that angle and it would have been down a hill, perhaps saving me 1 stroke in the grand scheme of things had i not had enough clearance in the trap after the shot to get it out of the trap (but how would i know that before i hit the ball?). still a tough pitch as your 6th is only going to get you a 7 if you somehow get really, really lucky. an 8 or 9 is more reasonable.
last thing i will mention is that "can't get out of the 90s" is sometimes not as bad as it seems. if you're playing a tough course a 90 could be a 15 handicap, so it's not entirely bogey golf after all. course i played earlier this week i shot a 92 and it was a 13 handicap (i did have a couple of strokes over 7 that came out for my calculation, but total score was 92).