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Golf Handicap System Explained for Newbie - Page 2

post #19 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

 

They may spend the same, but don't get in my face if you just won with a gross 90 to my 85. On that I agree with the OP.

 

I play with people that are a bit more mature than that - I could argue that it is BS that half my tourney money goes into a gross pool that I have no chance in while a low HC could still possibly win in net (it happens more often that not that somebody in the top 2 or 3 gross also finishes in the top 3 net)

post #20 of 62
Thread Starter 

A what? Sorry, my English isn't that great anymore, as I've lived in France for nearly 15 years, so I apologise for any upset, it's all inferred and not implied, I assure you.

 

Sacm3bill's advice seems the most pragmatic and helpful, as it I think it seems that I don't have to have a handicap score in order to play golf.  Unless, it's on a country by country basis?

 

If I can just play 'normally' ie I can tell if I'm getting better if I score less over a round, which seems like a simpler methodology, I'll give it a go!

post #21 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunkerman125 View Post


So, when someone with a higher handicap 'beats' someone else, even though they didn't actually beat them, it's not a serious win.

I promise you, when I get beat by someone, even if I had to give them a bunch of strokes, I consider it to be serious!

That's the great thing about this game. If, and it's a big IF, the handicaps are correct and honestly derived, any player can compete on a relatively level playing field with any other player. Does that mean that the player with the higher handicap is a better player if he wins? No. It does mean that he played better relative to his skill level than the other guy did though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunkerman125 View Post


If I continue to play golf to a level that I'd actually like to win, rather than pretend I've won, what are my options? Can I play without a handicap system until I'm good enough to not have one?

You can ABSOLUTELY play against anyone you like without a handicap. Just don't forget to bring your checkbook! a3_biggrin.gif
post #22 of 62

Hmmm...I don't think the OP is serious.

 

I knew how handicaps worked long before I ever thought about bowling or playing golf. Hard for me to believe that someone else doesn't.

post #23 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunkerman125 View Post

Sacm3bill's advice seems the most pragmatic and helpful, as it I think it seems that I don't have to have a handicap score in order to play golf.  Unless, it's on a country by country basis?

 

There are a few high-end or prestigious courses that require you to show a handicap card before playing, but they are rare.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunkerman125 View Post

If I can just play 'normally' ie I can tell if I'm getting better if I score less over a round, which seems like a simpler methodology, I'll give it a go!

 

Here's something to seriously consider Bunkerman: If you really want to accurately track whether you're getting better or not, keeping a handicap is the best way to do it. You can either sign up with an organization that you can post your scores to and will do it for you, or you can keep track of it on your own if you're reasonably good at arithmetic. Either way, it's often much easier to look at that single handicap number and see whether it's going up or down, than to look at a bunch of scores over a period of time, which will vary widely especially if you're just starting out, and which may be from different courses (some being more difficult than others), and try to figure out if you're getting better or not.

 

Point is, you can track your handicap simply to track your progress - you don't have to use it to compete against others.

post #24 of 62

I completely get at what the OP is getting at.  I understand the handicapping system, but I believe his point is that either you are good or not.  If you want to play for money you should be betting that you can beat the person you are betting against.  If you don't think you can win don't bet. 

 

I don't play tournaments and my handicap is only calculated by my score keeping device.  It is not official.

 

I think the OP's philosophy is that it doesn't make sense for a golfer with a higher score to beat a golfer with a lower score.  If you are not good enough to compete then don't, like many other sports. 

 

It doesn't really effect me and I don't know what the answer is, but I understand his thought process.

post #25 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndb8fxe View Post

I completely get at what the OP is getting at.  I understand the handicapping system, but I believe his point is that either you are good or not.  If you want to play for money you should be betting that you can beat the person you are betting against.  If you don't think you can win don't bet. 

 

I don't play tournaments and my handicap is only calculated by my score keeping device.  It is not official.

 

I think the OP's philosophy is that it doesn't make sense for a golfer with a higher score to beat a golfer with a lower score.  If you are not good enough to compete then don't, like many other sports. 

 

It doesn't really effect me and I don't know what the answer is, but I understand his thought process.

 

But what you miss, is that the handicap system is what makes golf such a beautiful game.  Sure, nobody is going to contend that a higher handicap player is actually better than a higher handicap player, but the handicap system allows them to compete on a "level" playing field and determine which player plays better, relative to their individual skill level.  I can bet against friends that are scratch golfers and I can bet against guys who are 15 shots higher than me.

 

No other sport really allows you to do this. 

post #26 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndb8fxe View Post

I think the OP's philosophy is that it doesn't make sense for a golfer with a higher score to beat a golfer with a lower score.  If you are not good enough to compete then don't, like many other sports. 

 

 

Anybody heard about a head start? Used to level racing/gaming between unequal competitors. This is no different to that. Everybody knows the lower HC is better as a player, but if higher HC happens to win with lower net score, then both knows that he/she played better than expected. And both can be happy for that achievement. (unless there had been some sandbagging)

post #27 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriskzoo View Post

 

But what you miss, is that the handicap system is what makes golf such a beautiful game.  Sure, nobody is going to contend that a higher handicap player is actually better than a higher handicap player, but the handicap system allows them to compete on a "level" playing field and determine which player plays better, relative to their individual skill level.  I can bet against friends that are scratch golfers and I can bet against guys who are 15 shots higher than me.

 

No other sport really allows you to do this. 

Like I said, I understand the handicap system and understand the benefits..  I'm just mentioning that I understand the OP's thoughts on it.  I do agree with the op that it seems strange from an outsiders standpoint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luu5 View Post

 

Anybody heard about a head start? Used to level racing/gaming between unequal competitors. This is no different to that. Everybody knows the lower HC is better as a player, but if higher HC happens to win with lower net score, then both knows that he/she played better than expected. And both can be happy for that achievement. (unless there had been some sandbagging)

See above, however I haven't seen many other competitions that allow head starts or allow the mediocre to claim a victory.  Again, I get it, but also understand the OP's point.

post #28 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndb8fxe View Post

See above, however I haven't seen many other competitions that allow head starts or allow the mediocre to claim a victory.  Again, I get it, but also understand the OP's point.
That's probably because virtually every other sport is a team sport or an individual sport where you are in direct competition with your opponent. In golf you are playing against the course, which doesn't change and can sort of measure it's difficulty. Thus allowing a system of handicapping to work.
post #29 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCfanatic35 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndb8fxe View Post

See above, however I haven't seen many other competitions that allow head starts or allow the mediocre to claim a victory.  Again, I get it, but also understand the OP's point.
That's probably because virtually every other sport is a team sport or an individual sport where you are in direct competition with your opponent. In golf you are playing against the course, which doesn't change and can sort of measure it's difficulty. Thus allowing a system of handicapping to work.

 

Certainly you *can* play against the course (or par) on your own, but then handicaps wouldn't be necessary. What we're talking about here is indeed competing against your opponent - that's why both your and your opponent's handicaps are relevant.

post #30 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

Certainly you *can* play against the course (or par) on your own, but then handicaps wouldn't be necessary. What we're talking about here is indeed competing against your opponent - that's why both your and your opponent's handicaps are relevant.
I understand exactly what your talking about. My reply was to why in other games no one is spotted points or given an advantage to make bad players equal to good players. In most other sports, individual or team, you are directly competing against your opponent. Not every team competes against the same quality of opponent. It makes it next to impossible to determine what the handicap, if you will, would be when competing like that. How would go about calculating handicaps in other sports? IMO you couldn't in most, which is why they don't do it in other games/sports.
post #31 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCfanatic35 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

Certainly you *can* play against the course (or par) on your own, but then handicaps wouldn't be necessary. What we're talking about here is indeed competing against your opponent - that's why both your and your opponent's handicaps are relevant.
I understand exactly what your talking about. My reply was to why in other games no one is spotted points or given an advantage to make bad players equal to good players. In most other sports, individual or team, you are directly competing against your opponent. Not every team competes against the same quality of opponent. It makes it next to impossible to determine what the handicap, if you will, would be when competing like that. How would go about calculating handicaps in other sports? IMO you couldn't in most, which is why they don't do it in other games/sports.

 

Ok, I see what you're saying but I would describe it differently. I would say that handicaps are possible in any sport where measurement of individual performance is possible.  In golf or bowling for example, you can play on your own and get a score, and the history of those scores can be used to establish a handicap. But while those two sports are the only ones I know of where that method is used, it could also theoretically be applied to sports like swimming, rowing, running, cycling, auto racing, etc - basically any sport where you're measured by how long it takes you to travel a certain distance. You could use that time measurement, just as you use the scoring measurements in golf and bowling, to establish a handicap.  For those time-based sports, when you compete against someone you'd get a head start (or, an adjustment to your time if you weren't racing head to head) equal to the difference in your handicaps. 

 

As you correctly point out though, that wouldn't be possible for sports like basketball, football, fencing, etc. But I think that you *could* have handicaps in sports other than golf or bowling - there just isn't a lot of interest in doing so. (At least not in an organized/structured way, but people still use the "head start" and "spotting points" methods in informal contests.)

post #32 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

Ok, I see what you're saying but I would describe it differently. I would say that handicaps are possible in any sport where measurement of individual performance is possible.  In golf or bowling for example, you can play on your own and get a score, and the history of those scores can be used to establish a handicap. But while those two sports are the only ones I know of where that method is used, it could also theoretically be applied to sports like swimming, rowing, running, cycling, auto racing, etc - basically any sport where you're measured by how long it takes you to travel a certain distance. You could use that time measurement, just as you use the scoring measurements in golf and bowling, to establish a handicap.  For those time-based sports, when you compete against someone you'd get a head start (or, an adjustment to your time if you weren't racing head to head) equal to the difference in your handicaps. 

As you correctly point out though, that wouldn't be possible for sports like basketball, football, fencing, etc. But I think that you *could* have handicaps in sports other than golf or bowling - there just isn't a lot of interest in doing so. (At least not in an organized/structured way, but people still use the "head start" and "spotting points" methods in informal contests.)
I agree. This has probably already been stated but IMO the reason they use hdcps in golf is because of the possibility of winning is so low or impossible if they didn't use them. My brothers hdcp is around 9, mine is almost 19. In my 37 years on this earth I have never beaten him on straight up. I tied him once, about 2 months ago he played the worst round ever just for the tie to occur. I have beaten him in every other sport because of ability, luck, whatever the reason. But in golf it just doesn't happen that often. That and also so it makes betting possible.
post #33 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

Ok, I see what you're saying but I would describe it differently. I would say that handicaps are possible in any sport where measurement of individual performance is possible.  In golf or bowling for example, you can play on your own and get a score, and the history of those scores can be used to establish a handicap. But while those two sports are the only ones I know of where that method is used, it could also theoretically be applied to sports like swimming, rowing, running, cycling, auto racing, etc - basically any sport where you're measured by how long it takes you to travel a certain distance. You could use that time measurement, just as you use the scoring measurements in golf and bowling, to establish a handicap.  For those time-based sports, when you compete against someone you'd get a head start (or, an adjustment to your time if you weren't racing head to head) equal to the difference in your handicaps. 

As you correctly point out though, that wouldn't be possible for sports like basketball, football, fencing, etc. But I think that you *could* have handicaps in sports other than golf or bowling - there just isn't a lot of interest in doing so. (At least not in an organized/structured way, but people still use the "head start" and "spotting points" methods in informal contests.)
I agree. This has probably already been stated but IMO the reason they use hdcps in golf is because of the possibility of winning is so low or impossible if they didn't use them. My brothers hdcp is around 9, mine is almost 19. In my 37 years on this earth I have never beaten him straight up. I tied him once, about 2 months ago he played the worst round ever just for the tie to occur. I have beaten him in every other sport because of ability, luck, whatever the reason. But in golf it just doesn't happen that often. That, and it also makes betting possible.
post #34 of 62

Bowling uses a handicap system as well

post #35 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

Bowling uses a handicap system as well
How do they calculate/use handicaps in bowling? Is it just finding your average or is it more complicated than that?
post #36 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCfanatic35 View Post


How do they calculate/use handicaps in bowling? Is it just finding your average or is it more complicated than that?

 

  1. Determine your average. In league bowling, a minimum of three games is required to establish an average. To calculate your average, take the total number of pins and divide by the number of games. If you scored a total of 480 through three games, your average is 160 (480 divided by three).
  2. Determine the basis score. Ask your league secretary, as the basis score varies from one league to the next. Ideally, the basis score will be higher than the highest average in the league. A typical basis score might be 210. Many leagues will take a percentage, for example 90%. If you ask your league secretary what the basis score is, you might hear, “90% of 210.”
  3. Subtract your average from the basis score. If your average is 160 and your basis score is 210, subtract 160 from 210. 210 – 160 = 50.
  4. Multiply by the percentage. Take 90% (or whatever percentage your league uses) of the difference between your average and the basis score. 50 x .9 = 45. Your handicap is 45.
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