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post #127 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfreuter415 View Post

While he is not my least favorite player, Tiger Woods demeanor on the course is, at times, objectionable. 

 

I coached high school golf for a number of years over the last three decades, and current players on the PGA tour have a huge influence on the young golfer. When Tiger lets go an  f-bomb or tosses a club, he is sending a message that it is okay to act like this when you miss hit a shot. My goal, as a coach, is to let these young men know that I will accept nothing less than gentlemanly behavior on the golf course at all times.

 

So, then my high school golfers will take the mixed messages and ask themselves, "Who is more successful, our high school golf coach, or Tiger Woods?"

 

It is therefore reasonable to conclude that their conduct will occasionally bring a reprimand from me, but the guys, to their credit, after a heart to heart talk, will understand that their actions, whether it be tossing a club or salty language, has no place on the golf course.

 

I will say that I do admire the discipline and professionalism that Mr. Woods exhibits, but I have a difficult time rooting for him to win, because of the objectionable traits that he occasionally displays on the course.

 

 

I don't understand all the backlash to this comment.  The guy is just saying that he's trying to teach his players to behave like gentlemen and that Tiger's tantrums make that harder.  Fourputt takes him to task for demanding perfection, but then says he disapproves of the tantrums.  Deryck Griffith complains that its dfreuter's job to teach them how to act? That was the point of his post.  He said he teaches them and "to their credit" they usually understand.  

 

I also don't think its apples to apples with other sports.  Those other sports are max effort events, with yelling crowds.   You win a golf tournament by staring at a putt for 5 minutes, walking up to it in complete silence, moving your putter about 2 feet and watching the ball slowly curl into the hole.  Its completely different than lowering your shoulder (but not the crown of your helmet!) into a defender to run him over and get into the endzone as the crowd is screaming and yelling.  Its just different.  If you try to take a picture of Tiger as he walks by his goons will confiscate your camera. 

 

I said Tiger is my favorite player, and that's because nobody is more fun to watch than him.  But I do wish he could change his on-course behavior (I could care less who he sleeps with).  When Tom Watson almost won the British Open a few years back the difference in class between the two was striking.  

post #128 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

I don't understand all the backlash to this comment.  The guy is just saying that he's trying to teach his players to behave like gentlemen and that Tiger's tantrums make that harder.  Fourputt takes him to task for demanding perfection, but then says he disapproves of the tantrums.  Deryck Griffith complains that its dfreuter's job to teach them how to act? That was the point of his post.  He said he teaches them and "to their credit" they usually understand.  

 

I also don't think its apples to apples with other sports.  Those other sports are max effort events, with yelling crowds.   You win a golf tournament by staring at a putt for 5 minutes, walking up to it in complete silence, moving your putter about 2 feet and watching the ball slowly curl into the hole.  Its completely different than lowering your shoulder (but not the crown of your helmet!) into a defender to run him over and get into the endzone as the crowd is screaming and yelling.  Its just different.  If you try to take a picture of Tiger as he walks by his goons will confiscate your camera. 

 

I said Tiger is my favorite player, and that's because nobody is more fun to watch than him.  But I do wish he could change his on-course behavior (I could care less who he sleeps with).  When Tom Watson almost won the British Open a few years back the difference in class between the two was striking.  

Well said sir.  I totally agree.  The man (dfreuter) was only pointing out that high school kids are influenced by a lot of things, including athletes that they look up to, and then goes on to say its his job to get them to behave gentlemanly.  How could you disagree with that?

post #129 of 243

Sorry but I have to disagree with everyone on Tiger.  What makes Tiger so compelling to so many people is his on course demeanor.  The guy is simply much more fun to watch than almost any other golfer.  If Tiger wasn't doing his signature fist pump after draining big putts and showing emotion (which includes cussing) on his mad shots then he wouldn't be fun to watch.  

post #130 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmf9 View Post

Sorry but I have to disagree with everyone on Tiger.  What makes Tiger so compelling to so many people is his own course demeanor.  The guy is simply much more fun to watch than almost any other golfer.  If Tiger wasn't doing his signature fist pump after draining big putts and showing emotion (which includes cussing) on his mad shots then he wouldn't be fun to watch.  

I'm not sure who you are disagreeing with?  I love watching Tiger Woods, and dsc123 said Tiger is his favorite player.  We just took exception to people giving dfreuter a hard time over his post.  (Even he said he admires Tiger, and that he is not his least favorite player)

post #131 of 243

I'm disagreeing that Tiger should change his own course behavior.  I think his own course emotion (the cussing, the club dropping, the visable frustration with himself) is all fine.  It's part of what makes Tiger who he is, many people love Tiger, even those that don't golf because they see how much he truly cares.

post #132 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmf9 View Post

I'm disagreeing that Tiger should change his own course behavior.  I think his own course emotion (the cussing, the club dropping, the visable frustration with himself) is all fine.  It's part of what makes Tiger who he is, many people love Tiger, even those that don't golf because they see how much he truly cares.

Well he certainly can't change anybody else's behavior. b2_tongue.gif

 

I agree that the emotion is part of who he is, but that is not what makes people like Tiger, otherwise, they'd all love Sergio too.  They like Tiger because he's the best.

 

Also, you can, very easily, show how much you care without cursing and throwing clubs.  If he hits a poor shot and the cameras are on him while he's watching it and starting to get upset, nobody would like him less if he said "Stupid Tiger!" or "You idiot!" instead of an f-bomb or a GD.

post #133 of 243

I hate sergio Garcia, never seen more of a spoiled brat attitude !
 

post #134 of 243

Sergio's spanish cussing spills are hilarious.  I would be pissed too if i should be one of the top players in the game, but turned out to be a big bust...

post #135 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubble View Post

I hate sergio Garcia, never seen more of a spoiled brat attitude !

See what I mean, tmf9?  This is a pretty common view of Sergio, I think we can safely say.  People "love" Tiger's on course attitude, but not Sergio's.  Why?  Is it because he's Spanish?  Maybe, I don't know.  But I bet it has mostly to do with the fact that he's not a winner.

 

I'll say it again.  People don't love Tiger because of his behavior.  They put up with it (or don't mind it) because he wins.

post #136 of 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

Also, you can, very easily, show how much you care without cursing and throwing clubs.  

 

Exactly.  Tiger's emotion shines through when he fist pumps and all that.  He doesn't have to kick his club.  Emotion and sportsmanship are not mutually exclusive, and finding the right balance is the sign of class.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

If he hits a poor shot and the cameras are on him while he's watching it and starting to get upset, nobody would like him less if he said "Stupid Tiger!" or "You idiot!" instead of an f-bomb or a GD.

 

That's exactly what I try to do.  Comments like that don't make you look like a jerk and I actually find they help me to get over the frustration quicker than flying off the handle.

post #137 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

See what I mean, tmf9?  This is a pretty common view of Sergio, I think we can safely say.  People "love" Tiger's on course attitude, but not Sergio's.  Why?  Is it because he's Spanish?  Maybe, I don't know.  But I bet it has mostly to do with the fact that he's not a winner.

 

I'll say it again.  People don't love Tiger because of his behavior.  They put up with it (or don't mind it) because he wins.

 

I agree with the premise that people mostly like Tiger because he's one of the best to ever play the game.  I think Sergio's on course attitude is more, "woe is me".  Also Tiger will get mad and then it's over, Sergio tends to carry it with him.

post #138 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post

I think Sergio's on course attitude is more, "woe is me".  Also Tiger will get mad and then it's over, Sergio tends to carry it with him.

That is a fair point.  Sergio's attitude is not the same as Tiger's.

 

But I still contend that if Sergio won like Tiger did, we'd find a way to either like that attitude and spin it as a positive, or just not be bothered by it.

post #139 of 243
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmf9 View Post

I'm disagreeing that Tiger should change his own course behavior.  I think his own course emotion (the cussing, the club dropping, the visable frustration with himself) is all fine.  It's part of what makes Tiger who he is, many people love Tiger, even those that don't golf because they see how much he truly cares.

Agreed, in addition, you win 77 times and 14 majors and you can drop clubs and swear all you want, Tiget earned his stripes.
post #140 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post

Sergio tends to carry it with him.

 

Sergio also tries to put blame on everyone and everything but himself. Also, Tiger may toss some clubs, but none of them amount to Sergio's club toss into the lake. 

 

Also, I don't know how he is off the course, but Henrik Stenson has a pretty short temper as well. 

post #141 of 243

I dislike any player who loses control of their temper, (Sergio kicking his shoe, Tiger tossing his driver into the ground and it rebounds into the gallery). Cussing under your breath is to be expected, but no club should ever leave your hands in more than a light toss onto your bag. Back in college, there was a rule against unsportsmanship/club abuse, two strokes, but my coach always gave a player a one time warning before enforcing the rule, the warning was given to the entire foursome. When a Monterrey Peninsula player threw his three iron fifty yards, I could not get either coach to enforce the rules. Next time I was paired with this player, it was a six team tourney, I asked about the sportsmanship rule, when I got the one warning decree, MY three iron went about twenty yards, BOOM, whole foursome warned, made my coach angry as hell. But no one misbehaved the whole round. And we won the League Championship that year, advancing to State qualifier.

post #142 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

See what I mean, tmf9?  This is a pretty common view of Sergio, I think we can safely say.  People "love" Tiger's on course attitude, but not Sergio's.  Why?  Is it because he's Spanish?  Maybe, I don't know.  But I bet it has mostly to do with the fact that he's not a winner.

 

I'll say it again.  People don't love Tiger because of his behavior.  They put up with it (or don't mind it) because he wins.

To me Sergio's emotion is nothing like Tiger at all.  Like another poster said Sergio is more of a "woe is me type" he pretty much blamed a higher being when he lost the British Open to Paddy.  Tiger's anger tends to be an immediate reaction to a bad shot, Sergio tends to hold onto it throughout a round.  Tiger's on course demeanor makes him a better player, and Sergio's makes him worse.  Sergio has all Tiger's negative attributes on the course, but none of the positives.  I'm not saying I like it when Tiger kicks his clubs or slams his driver down but if that's what he has to do to release his anger then so be it.  Much better than letting that anger carry on (like Sergio)  

post #143 of 243

You want bad acting, here's one for you.  No video but I witnessed one of the two acts.  Aaron Baddely at the International at Castle Pines.  I was working as a hole marshal on the 17th hole, and a friend was working at the 14th.  Baddely didn't like his drive on 14 and went ballistic, hacking up the tee box with his driver, taking big hunks of turf out of the ground.  I didn't witness that, but we got the information over our radios from back down the course.  Then a little later on the short, uphill par 5 17th, which was considered a birdie/eagle hole, he hit hit 4I second shot into the greenside bunker and promptly snapped the shaft across his thigh.  That second act was right in front of me.  The air was a bit blue around him too, as he wasn't exactly praising the Lord for giving him the talent to play on the PGA Tour.  

 

It was a worse display than I've ever heard of Tiger making.

post #144 of 243

Tiger's on course demeanor is probably one of his biggest assets - when he hits a bad shot, he uses those little tirades as a release, instead of bottling up the emotion - and aside from kicking the club, I don't think a little under your breath swearing hurts anyone.

 

As for my least favorite player, and it's probably because I think he's a big phony, it's Phil.  His constant grin and his clapping for Rose making those putts in the Ryder Cup just put it over the top for me.  I have tremendous respect for his game, but don't like that attitude.  A guys like Tiger or Ian Poulter, after their opponent made those putts, would have turned their back and walked to the next tee.  

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