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Definition of "opposite side of the hazard"

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 

I have a question regarding the "opposite side of the hazard."  Say your ball enters a lateral water hazard at a point where the hazard indents.  My question is:  Can the opposite side of the hazard be either left or right of the point where the ball enters?  As long as those 2 drop points are both equidistant from the pin?

 

Thanks

post #2 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by litfish View Post

I have a question regarding the "opposite side of the hazard."  Say your ball enters a lateral water hazard at a point where the hazard indents.  My question is:  Can the opposite side of the hazard be either left or right of the point where the ball enters?  As long as those 2 drop points are both equidistant from the pin?

 

Thanks

 

Can you include a sketch or something?  I'm having trouble visualizing the scenario.  The only way I can see this coming up is if that portion of the water hazard is mismarked as a lateral water hazard when it should be marked with yellow.

post #3 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by litfish View Post

I have a question regarding the "opposite side of the hazard."  Say your ball enters a lateral water hazard at a point where the hazard indents.  My question is:  Can the opposite side of the hazard be either left or right of the point where the ball enters?  As long as those 2 drop points are both equidistant from the pin?

 

Thanks

This might help

 

 

26-1/14

Clarification of "Opposite Margin" in Rule 26-1c(ii)

oppositemargin.jpg

Q.Please clarify the words "opposite margin" in Rule 26-1c. With regard to the diagram, "X1" indicates where a ball in the hazard last crossed the hazard margin. May the player drop a ball within two club-lengths of "Y1"? And, may a player whose ball last crossed the hazard margin at "X2" drop a ball within two club-lengths of "Y2," and so on?

A.With respect to "X1," "Y1" is "a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole." Accordingly, the player would be entitled to drop a ball within two club-lengths of "Y1."

The same applies in the cases of "X3"-"Y3" and "X4"-"Y4," but not in the case of "X2"-"Y2." A "point on the opposite margin" is a point across the hazard from "the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the hazard." "Y2" is not across the hazard from "X2" because an imaginary straight line from "X2" to "Y2" crosses land outside the hazard.

post #4 of 15
Thread Starter 

Here's a drawing of what I'm talking about.  X1 is where the ball entered the Lateral Water Hazard.  X2 and X3 are the 2 points that I'm asking about.  Are you allowed to drop the ball at either X2 OR X3?  The green and the pin are in the upper left.  The margin of the hazard is defined by the line inside of X1, 2 and 3.

 

post #5 of 15

I'm leaving this one up to Rulesman.  My impression would be that the rules don't contemplate a situation where there could be 2 places equidistant from the hole which could both be considered as opposite the point of entry.  How that would be resolved is uncertain.

post #6 of 15

Are the points x2 and x3 equidistant from the hole compared to x1?  It doesn't appear that x3 is equidistant - and that x3 should up towards the corner of the LWH.

The Rules do contemplate that there could be more than one opposite margin where an equidistant point(s) exist.

 

The key point in the Decision quoted is that an imaginary straight line between the equidistant points must not cross land.  If this imaginary straight line between the two equidstant points does cross land, the second point is not on an opposite margin.  From your diagram, it's not clear if that imaginary straight line between x1 and x2 crosses land?  Certainly appears as though an equidistant x3 would be on an opposite margin, but it must be equidistant - not closer to the hole or farther from the hole.

post #7 of 15

rogolf has put a ? in all the right boxes.

 

But providing the diagram is just a rough approximation then the principle is correct in that x2 & x3 would satisfy the requirement.

post #8 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulesman View Post

rogolf has put a ? in all the right boxes.

 

But providing the diagram is just a rough approximation then the principle is correct in that x2 & x3 would satisfy the requirement.

 

And to expand this further, there is nothing in the Rules saying that there might not be more than one equidistant point. Finding three, however, would require some imagination, though :-)

post #9 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignorant View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulesman View Post

rogolf has put a ? in all the right boxes.

 

But providing the diagram is just a rough approximation then the principle is correct in that x2 & x3 would satisfy the requirement.

 

And to expand this further, there is nothing in the Rules saying that there might not be more than one equidistant point. Finding three, however, would require some imagination, though :-)

 

The ball would have to cross the margin at exactly the point on the peninsula which is closest to the hole.  This would have to be quite precise, as any other point would not satisfy the OP's scenario.

post #10 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

The ball would have to cross the margin at exactly the point on the peninsula which is closest to the hole.  This would have to be quite precise, as any other point would not satisfy the OP's scenario.

 

That is correct. On the other hand, not very many would like to drop a ball at X3, having to hit over the water.

post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignorant View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

The ball would have to cross the margin at exactly the point on the peninsula which is closest to the hole.  This would have to be quite precise, as any other point would not satisfy the OP's scenario.

 

That is correct. On the other hand, not very many would like to drop a ball at X3, having to hit over the water.

 

Unless the other spots were in deep native grass or something.  Hard to predict.  I've even elected not to take a free drop from a concrete cart path because the drop would be in such a poor lie.

post #12 of 15
There are always going to be some really odd situations. For me and probably most golfers the graphic provided by Rulesman describes almost every situation. Frankly, if one has one of those 1 in 100 scenarios, just make a drop on the same side of the hazard rather than try to manipulate the situation.
post #13 of 15

I think Rory had an issue with this once and he actually go relief in a better position since the hole was a dog leg, and allowed him to actually have a shot for the green. 

 

Rules of golf are strange, and they do allow for some advantageous results if your crafty enough. 

 

Like "Taking an Unplayable Lie", no one describes an unplayable lie, and a player can deem any lie unplayable. Meaning, if your on a fast green, and you just putted the ball off the green, and you know you can't chip worth shit, you can take an unplayable lie, take the penalty and re-putt. There is no rules against this, its cheap, and out of the spirit of the game, but with in the rules. 

post #14 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

I think Rory had an issue with this once and he actually go relief in a better position since the hole was a dog leg, and allowed him to actually have a shot for the green. 

 

Rules of golf are strange, and they do allow for some advantageous results if your crafty enough. 

 

Like "Taking an Unplayable Lie", no one describes an unplayable lie, and a player can deem any lie unplayable. Meaning, if your on a fast green, and you just putted the ball off the green, and you know you can't chip worth shit, you can take an unplayable lie, take the penalty and re-putt. There is no rules against this, its cheap, and out of the spirit of the game, but with in the rules. 

 

Apart from the language above, which I might say, I had some hard time to understand, I think saevel25 has got it somewhat wrong, as far as the spirit of the game is concerned.

 

IMO, it is not at all against the spirit of the game to follow the Rules. Quite on the contrary, it is a feature most encouraged amongst all golfers, all around the world. Sometimes the Rules give you advantage, sometimes they do not, but it is up to you to know the Rules. That is the only way to be able to benefit from them.

 

Believe me, you will not be handicapped for not knowing the Rules. Could be the other way around, though...

post #15 of 15
From the book itself:

The Spirit Of The Game
Golf is played, for the most part, without the supervision of a referee or umpire. The game relies on the integrity of the individual to show consideration for other players and to abide by the Rules. All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be. This is the spirit of the game of golf.
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