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Masters Bush League Bullying - Everything I hate about Augusta - Page 2

post #19 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

I'd argue that they bent over backwards to avoid penalizing him. To no avail.....

 

I'd concur.

 

post #20 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by chico713 View Post

Can't believe not one person can see that to tag the 14 yr old with the penalty for slow play, which every other guy out there broke is ridiculous.

Way harder for me to believe that a 14 year old in the Masters didn't speed up after being warned. The last thing most people would want to do in a situation like that would be to slow the other players down at all.

post #21 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

I'd argue that they bent over backwards to avoid penalizing him. To no avail.....

Yup.  It's up on my TV screen right now ...

 

10th hole:     informed group out of position

12th hole:     reminded still out of position

13th hole:     1st excessive timing (no penalty)

Before 17th:  reminded still out of position

17th fairway: 2nd excessive timing (1-stroke penalty)

 

Dude was given 4 warnings prior.  I'd say they were being pretty fair.

 

Still, I'm very happy he made the cut, and hope he does really, really well this weekend.

post #22 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

Read what people are writing before continuing to post drivel, please.

 

Nobody else broke the rule.

 

Why?

 

No other group was out of position and thus put on the clock.

 

Yeah, they "tagged" him on 17... after warning him several times, and putting his group on the clock, and after he failed - after seven holes - to get back into position.

If there were three groupings waiting at the tees at multiple locations, why was only this one group considered out of position? I actually like the ruling and hope the kid learns from this, but if what I am reading is correct, it seems a little unusual only one player was penalized, not to mention this one player everyone is watching but doesn't expect to win. Seems a little strategic for me. 

post #23 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhockey11 View Post

If there were three groupings waiting at the tees at multiple locations, why was only this one group considered out of position? I actually like the ruling and hope the kid learns from this, but if what I am reading is correct, it seems a little unusual only one player was penalized, not to mention this one player everyone is watching but doesn't expect to win. Seems a little strategic for me. 

Because "out of position" means you're too far behind the group in front of you, not too close.

 

And I don't know why I'm being gullible enough to ask this but here goes anyway ... what strategy were they employing exactly?

post #24 of 161

If I didn't know any better, I'd think Martha Burk was in the house!  LOL

post #25 of 161
Broke the rules, got a penalty, welcome to the bg leagues kid.

I will say if you watched the interview following, he was a very good sport about it.
post #26 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by chico713 View Post

A penalty shot on a 14 year old Chinese amateur?  Are you frigging kidding me??!!!  And then none of these sycophantic announcers have the balls to say how wrong it was because they don't want to get banned by the racist and fascist Augusta National administrators.  C'mon the kid is 14!!!  What id that 8th grade.  Pick on these other guys that are taking FOREVER to get a yardage, read the wind, chat with the caddie, ask the PATRONS to be quiet..If this kid missed the cut over this it would be a travesty.  I love the course and the back 9 on Sunday but these guys should take their bully act and stick it up their ass.  

Trevino changed his shoes in the parking lot for a reason

Nobilo, Chamblee, and the rest of them are a bunch of pussies

 

Do you even understand that the penalty was issued by a well known and highly respected rules official from the European Tour, NOT Augusta National?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chico713 View Post

All I have to say is patrons...think about it - only 1 place calls fans patrons, and forces people, by threat of exclusion to call them patrons as well. These guys are the babies that have the football, and the big back yard, so you put up with the b.s. Enjoy the tournament. If Tiger had the sack his Dad meant for him to have, he'd tell them to take their jacket and eat it.

 

OK, so now we understand that this really has very little to do with this ruling but rather you are taking this as an opportunity to bash Augusta National due to your pre-existing animus.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chico713 View Post

Can't believe not one person can see that to tag the 14 yr old with the penalty for slow play, which every other guy out there broke is ridiculous. This is the masters, right? These guys are invited. It's not the open with 144 guys. They tagged him on 17 fairway. What, they couldn't let him play out a hole and a half and deal with it later. As for Augusta, remember what they did to Gary McCord because he said bikini wax and body bags...patrons- that says it alll

 

Before you criticize the rules and the rulings you ought to actually learn what the rule is, how it was violated, and why your statement that every other guy broke that rule is absurd.  But I don't think you are really interested in anything other than railing against Augusta National.

 

It is to the kid's credit that he took the penalty with a lot more class that you have exhibited here.

post #27 of 161

I bet that fulla is really good at playing the piano and maths too :)

 

Regards

 

Mailman

post #28 of 161

The kid took it well and did a good job in the interview saying he respected the decision.  Very mature attitude.  I heard that his caddy was assigned to him by Augusta.  The caddy really should have pushed him more because he is such a young player.

 

What I saw (and I see this often in Pro golf):  Guan didn't start discussing his shot with the caddy until the other player finished his shot.  A lot of Pros do this.  This is a huge chunk of time wasted.  He spent maybe a minute in going over where the shot should land and what club to use, and figuring out the wind.  This should all be done while the away player is doing their talk.  Then you look at your opponents shot, see how the wind affected it, make a quick adjustment if necessary and go.

 

Hopefully he will play better today at a quicker pace.

post #29 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by chico713 View Post

they haven't penalized anyone for this for years,  then they pick on the foreign kid who is 14 in his first Masters.  Why didn't they discreetly talk to Crenshaw, a former champ, and tell him to speed the kid up .  Utterly ridiculous.  A million ways to avoid this.  One ******* move, and they made it.


I agree with you there - the other guys needed to get on him.

 

His caddy also had a role in getting things going quicker.

 

-----------------------------

 

Here's what our award winning sports writer from Tampa Bay Times has to say about it.....

Teen didn't deserve Masters slow play penalty

 

AUGUSTA, Ga.

 

Just wondering, but what's the Chinese phrase for "highway robbery"?

 

And while we're at it, how do you translate "swindled" for the folks back home in Guangzhou?

 

Somehow, you get the feeling that an otherwise befuddled Tianlang Guan has figured out how to speak these and a great many other colorful phrases after Friday afternoon's raw deal of the day.

 

He was supposed to be the warm and fuzzy story of the afternoon, this ambitious 14-year-old kid who was holding his own against the Masters. Consider this: Guan can't play on his high school golf team because he isn't in high school yet. And yet he was three strokes over par for the tournament when they dropped the penalty flag on him.

Yep, one minute, the course was abuzz at how well Guan was playing at Augusta National, and the next, it seems, he was taking just too long to do so.

 

And so the Masters officials checked their stopwatch, and they harrumphed heavily, and they added a stroke to Guan's total.

 

Yeah, that'll teach him, all right.

 

Guan got lucky. In the end, he made the cut anyway, an impressive feat. The ruling just made him spend an afternoon with fate tying knots in his insides as he wondered. In the end, Guan was at 4-over 148 after his second-round 75, 10 strokes out of the lead, which gives him a lot more time. Two days' worth, in fact.

 

Before you begin to shake the rule book in defense of the slow play rule, know this: They almost never call slow play penalties in a PGA Tour event, and they had never called one at the Masters before.

 

Everyone grumbles about slow play, but by and large, officials stay out of the players' way. In fact, you have to go back to 1995 — before Guan was even born — when officials popped Glenn "All Day" Day at the Honda Classic. That was the last regular tour event when a slow play penalty was called. (One was called in the 2010 PGA Championship.)

 

So why break out the timer on Guan as he was finishing the 17th hole, one hole from finishing? Why bust a 14-year-old amateur on a course where everyone seemed to be taking their time in the windy conditions? It seems … arbitrary.

 

"The way I understand it, he was warned after he walked off the 16th," said playing partner Ben Crenshaw. "And he had obviously the most diabolical putt you could face, and he made a brilliant two-putt. I'm going to say this: Anybody would take time in order to get up and hit that putt.

 

"This isn't going to end up pretty, I don't think. I'm sick. I'm sick for him. He's 14 years old. When you get the wind blowing out there, believe me, you're going to change your mind. I'm so sorry this happened."

 

On the other hand, the conditions were just right for it to happen. After all, old Captain Stopwatch, John Paramor, was in charge of the timepiece.

 

There are two things to know about slow play penalties. One, they are almost never called. Two, when they are, it's largely because of Paramor.

 

Back in 2009, at the Bridgestone Invitational, Paramor warned Padraig Harrington. Harrington promptly sped up his play into a triple bogey, and his head-to-head with Tiger Woods turned into a runaway win for Woods. Woods himself ripped Paramor over that one.

 

Then there was the 1983 Italian Open. In that one, Seve Ballesteros was called for slow play … by Paramor. Ballesteros refused to accept the penalty, and he was disqualified.

 

In last year's Wales Open, Ross Fisher was given a one-shot penalty … by Paramor.

 

Look, no one is saying Guan didn't take his time. He did. He is 14 years old, in a foreign country, on a magical course, competing with the world's best, on a windy day, in the biggest event of his life. He could have been more decisive. But again, you could have busted a third of the field for slow play.

 

"I respect their decision," Guan said, although frankly, he still looked a little shell-shocked two hours later. "I don't think I'm too bad. It's just the wind. I still have to change clubs if the wind changes."

 

Consider the 16th. Playing partner Matteo Manassero hit his drive into the water. So Guan changed clubs then got ready to hit again. And he was over the 40-second time limit, which was important if Guan had been running a fastbreak. Nevertheless, he drew a warning. On the next hole, officials showed him the stopwatch and informed him he was playing on borrowed time.

 

For Guan, it was a bad way to end a charming story. Guan is 14, Nickelodeon age, and already it is a wonder the way he carries himself. Already Guan has talked about winning the Masters someday and the Grand Slam. He carved out a practice round with Crenshaw, and he met with Jack Nicklaus, a clear path to soak up all the golf he could. And his mother made him snacks.

 

How cute is that?

 

On the course, Guan had so much poise, so much presence. He beat Larry Mize and Mike Weir and Tom Watson and Craig Stadler and Crenshaw.

 

In the end, however, he could not beat Paramor and his stopwatch.

 

Pity.

 

Today, at least, he tries again. Perhaps he can be quick about it.

 

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/golf/now-comes-hard-part-for-garcia-at-masters-doing-it-again/2114744

post #30 of 161
I was against the penalty originally since its a bit of a black eye given all the media coverage... but...

If so many people complain about slow play, and repeated warnings do nothing, they are forced to act whether it's on the 10th hole or the 17th. I bet he won't be the slowest on the course going forward...
post #31 of 161
Thread Starter 
post #32 of 161
Thread Starter 
Two quickies 1. The penalty has NEVER (sorry if the caps offend anyone) been called in the history of the masters and 2. If you think Paramour acted without consulting the masters officials you're naive. These guy are control freaks
post #33 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by chico713 View Post

Two quickies 1. The penalty has NEVER (sorry if the caps offend anyone) been called in the history of the masters and 2. If you think Paramour acted without consulting the masters officials you're naive. These guy are control freaks

The pros know how to play within the time limit once they're on the clock. They play as slow as they want until they're informed that they're on the clock, and even until they're warned and then they know how to play it.

The kid has probably never come across this before and unfortunately didn't know how to play once on the clock.

There aren't any grand conspiracies here.
post #34 of 161
Thread Starter 
Paul Azinger : ..for him to get a penalty is a joke.

That's a major champion talking, not Chico 713...
http://espn.go.com/golf/masters13/story/_/id/9156910/tianlang-guan-singled-slow-play-round-2-masters-golf
post #35 of 161

The folks that run golf clubs are the most reactionary, conservative fools. EG. my old, old course refused a married couples discount to my friend because her partner is a woman.Golf is the loser

post #36 of 161

This would have been the biggest outrage in many many years if by penalizing him, he missed the cut.    You'd have a billion chinese countrymen up in arms - this is serious & Augusta played the douche card bigtime.    They should be thanking their lucky stars the kid made the cut & they didn't have to take that kind of heat if he missed it because of that rediculous call.     I would have actually liked to see them squirm under that kind of heat .      The kid saying he respects their decision was a helluva lot classier than most american 14 year old prodigies would have handled it - no attitude whatsoever - he took it like a man.

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