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Masters Bush League Bullying - Everything I hate about Augusta - Page 6

post #91 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

You mean the racist and fascist Augusta National administrators that wanted to expand the sport in China and created the Asia-Pacific Amateur Championship who's winner (Guan) was guaranteed a spot in the Masters?   Why should any player, regardless of age be exempt from following the rules?  Should Augusta also give Couples extra time cause he's old?  Looks like you don't have all your facts straight or just want to bash Augusta National. 

Bingo!

 

And I find it hilarious that the OP has the Augusta cubhouse as his avatar.

post #92 of 161

 

The big difference is that the pros know how to manage when the clock starts on their routine. They all take more time than the kid did, but he was clueless about how to manage the clock. Doesn't excuse it, and he deserved the penalty, but most PGA Tour pros will never, ever play at a decent pace. 

post #93 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by phan52 View Post

The big difference is that the pros know how to manage when the clock starts on their routine. They all take more time than the kid did, but he was clueless about how to manage the clock. Doesn't excuse it, and he deserved the penalty, but most PGA Tour pros will never, ever play at a decent pace. 

 

 

But that is a problem with the way the slow play rules are structured, not a problem with unfair application of the slow play rules.  Someone (Nobilo?) on TGC talked about how the pros know how to game the system by sending their caddy ahead of them to get the yardage and figure out the wind, so that when the player gets there and the clock starts running there is little left to do but hit the shot.    He also talked about how they knew how things changed once they had been warned and put on the clock so they could void a penalty with minimal speeding up.  
 
SO I agree with you that the pros know how to manage the clock and the kid didn't.  But the pros also know how to hit some shots that the kid doesn't know yet.  That is just a function of the kid's inexperience.  Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement.  The kid got some great experience that could not have been bought at any price.
 
And thankfully the kid made the cut and had a great week and the fact that he won low amateur by making the cut shows that his manner of accepting the penalty resulted in excellent karma for him..  Having the penalty levied, and the way he handled it, really made his stock soar even more than if it had never happened.  Now every golf fan knows this guy and will be rooting for him.  Plus this will be a big plus for the game in China.  I bet the kid ends up on the Chinese Olympic golf team.  I hope so and I'll sure be rooting for him.  I also hope he comes over and plays the US Junior Amateur and the US Amateur.  And maybe even tries to qualify for the US and British Opens.
post #94 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtleback View Post

But that is a problem with the way the slow play rules are structured, not a problem with unfair application of the slow play rules.  Someone (Nobilo?) on TGC talked about how the pros know how to game the system by sending their caddy ahead of them to get the yardage and figure out the wind, so that when the player gets there and the clock starts running there is little left to do but hit the shot. 

And by "game the system" what you are really saying is "playing fast."  That is precisely the goal of the slow play rules ... to get them to play faster.  Doing whatever you can prior to it being your turn is how you do it.

post #95 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by phan52 View Post

 

The big difference is that the pros know how to manage when the clock starts on their routine. They all take more time than the kid did, but he was clueless about how to manage the clock. Doesn't excuse it, and he deserved the penalty, but most PGA Tour pros will never, ever play at a decent pace. 


Good point - was stated by the talking heads this weekend that the kid didn't know how to circumvent the rules like the seasoned pros have been doing. That's my point - the kid was isolated out when many of the others in the field were equally guilty.

post #96 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Martin View Post


Good point - was stated by the talking heads this weekend that the kid didn't know how to circumvent the rules like the seasoned pros have been doing. That's my point - the kid was isolated out when many of the others in the field were equally guilty.

 

No one else in the field was guilty of violating the slow play rules. 

post #97 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordan View Post

 

No one else in the field was guilty of violating the slow play rules. 

Apparently Manassero got a penalty as well! I don't think I'd even heard this reported.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/apr/12/masters-2013-guan-tianlang-penalty

 

My understanding is that once a group is on the clock it makes no difference who go the group out of position, all three are on the clock and subject to penalty with 2 bad times.

post #98 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wansteadimp View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordan View Post

 

No one else in the field was guilty of violating the slow play rules. 

Apparently Manassero got a penalty as well! I don't think I'd even heard this reported.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/apr/12/masters-2013-guan-tianlang-penalty

 

My understanding is that once a group is on the clock it makes no difference who go the group out of position, all three are on the clock and subject to penalty with 2 bad times.

 

Exactly.  They were all on the clock, but the kid was the only one who broke the 40 second limit.  I may be true that he was a shorter hitter, and that put him at a disadvantage on approach shots by having to play first, but it is what it is and he still needed to figure out a way to speed up.  Golf is a game of adjustments, and sometimes that means changing your pace.  It's just one of the many variable factors that make up a round of golf.  The kid needs to study Snedeker and Cabrera.  Those 2 would have played in under 3 hours if they had been at the front of the pack instead of being the last group.  

post #99 of 161

According to the article Manassero got a 1 shot penalty as well.

post #100 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wansteadimp View Post

According to the article Manassero got a 1 shot penalty as well.

 

The Guardian are the only ones I've seen to have reported that. Given the amount of coverage this had, how did that slip by everyone else? 

 

There are even interviews with Manassero about this without mentions of him getting a penalty. I think The Guardian may have gotten their wires crossed somehow.

post #101 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordan View Post

 

The Guardian are the only ones I've seen to have reported that. Given the amount of coverage this had, how did that slip by everyone else? 

 

There are even interviews with Manassero about this without mentions of him getting a penalty. I think The Guardian may have gotten their wires crossed somehow.

Sorry guys.

 

British newspaper makes things up shocka!

 

Looking at the transcript from Manassero's press conference looks like he didn't get a penalty.

 

http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=88411

 

I suspect it was the following that caused te confusion: -

 

Q.  You said afterwards that they were talking about it, so is it uncertain‑‑ when you were in there was it uncertain whether he would get that penalty or not? 
MATTEO MANASSERO:  Do I need to give you my opinion?  He's been given the shot penalty, and myself on the card, I had to put a shot penalty, so I put a 5 on 17 because I was told like that.  What's going to happen in the next minutes, I don't know.

post #102 of 161
Thread Starter 
Last post: http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/masters08/columns/story?columnist=sobel_jason&id=3324061

Check out what happened to Robert D if you don't already know. What is it about golf that allows for these things to happen? A 14 yr old kid takes a little too long to play at his first major. The best player ever drops his ball, in full view of the whole world and doesn't realize he made a mistake with corresponding two stroke penalty until the next day. By the way, where was Paramour when Tiger made the drop. Probably looking at his stop watch. Then you look at the De Vincezo story- everyone knew what he shot, there should have been a playoff, and realize it hasn't changed in 40 years. Thank God the golf, and guys likes Scott and Cabrera (Argentine like Roberto D. ), save the game from the asinine rules of golf. The 18th, 18th, and 10th saved that tournament. It was awesome. My next post will be suggestions for the New Rules of Golf.
post #103 of 161

So, chico, screw the Rules - golfers should just do what you say, is that it?

 

Tiger - handled properly and per the rules.

Guan - handled properly and per the rules.

De Vicenzo - handled properly and per the rules.

 

I'm sensing a pattern...

post #104 of 161
Thread Starter 
Yeah, the pattern is I don't like rules that are bullshit
post #105 of 161

Listening to Sirius XM PGA radio and a reporter was discussing that he followed the kid, Ben, and Manessero and observed that both Manessero and Crenshaw had several incidences where they were very slow in their decision making during the early part of the round. In one case the reporter said that it took Crenshaw several minutes to figure out what club he wanted to hit.  Said that this put the group behind early in the round - but Augusta National wasn't about to penalize Gentle Ben for slow play.

 

Kid was an easy target. Ben probably knew it as did Manessero.

 

 

Edit: didn't read the above posts.  Guess the Augusta National gave out more than one penalty?

post #106 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Martin View Post

Listening to Sirius XM PGA radio and a reporter was discussing that he followed the kid, Ben, and Manessero and observed that both Manessero and Crenshaw had several incidences where they were very slow in their decision making during the early part of the round. In one case the reporter said that it took Crenshaw several minutes to figure out what club he wanted to hit.  Said that this put the group behind early in the round - but Augusta National wasn't about to penalize Gentle Ben for slow play.

 

Rick, you're not revealing yourself to be very adept at reading and understanding basic logic or facts.

 

Were they out of position in the early holes?

Were they on the clock?

Had they been warned?

 

No. No. No.

 

Taking your time is a luxury you afford yourself when you are in position. It is not a luxury you afford yourself when you've fallen OUT of position.

 

You keep advancing this bizarre theory that they went out of their way to penalize a 14yo Chinese kid - a kid they specifically added to the field (i.e. as the winner of the Asian am event that he won), and ignoring the very simple, very basic, very easy to understand facts of the matter.

post #107 of 161
Thread Starter 
Rules I break:

- I don't drive 55
- I buy stuff on ebay and don't pay sales tax to the people's republic of New York
- I talk on my cell when I drive
- I don't wear my seat belt
- I'm a bad man
post #108 of 161

Some people just like to make a big deal out of nothing. Its this constant obsession that everything must have a hidden agenda, the world is to jaded these days. 

 

Apparently those who think they should give this kid a break, or why golf rules seem so rediculus at some moments have never played competative golf, or doesn't appreciate the history of the game of golf and the adherence and self goveneroring of the rules by the players themselves, is the highest form of respect for the game. Those who think they have the right to twist the rules, or play by a different set of rules, doesn't respect the game of golf. Its why i don't want to see two sets of rules for Amateurs than Pro's, it will degrade the game of golf. 

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