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Taylormade CEO says the sport has declined since Tiger Woods came into golf - Page 4

post #55 of 117
I suppose it's possible that golf has declined since 1997ish when Tiger started winning majors, but the chance that he's to blame is miniscule.

I'm kind of wary of statements like King's though, especially with how self-repeating the "handicaps haven't dropped NOT ONE STROKE in the last 50 years!!!!!!" thing has become.
post #56 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post

I suppose it's possible that golf has declined since 1997ish when Tiger started winning majors, but the chance that he's to blame is miniscule.

I'm kind of wary of statements like King's though, especially with how self-repeating the "handicaps haven't dropped NOT ONE STROKE in the last 50 years!!!!!!" thing has become.

The other thing is likely golf follows the economy as well. More people play when the economy is good like in 2000, and 2009, and less when it is bad like 2001 and 2011. So pinning it on Tiger is hyperbole of which TM is the king.
post #57 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

Right muggs because no one ever cheated on their wife before Tiger.  Are you related to Elin?  She found herself another sugar daddy so maybe it's time you let it go. 

 

Can probably bet that no one on tour had cheated on their wife with over forty women before. Tiger's a skunk... admit it.

post #58 of 117

I'm very disappointed to learn that he's the Taylormade-Adidas Golf, CEO. I've been giving my money to a guy like this? ...Wow.. He's saying that Tiger Woods basically hurt golf?

 

I'm sure Mr. King is making a whole lot more money now then he was prior to Tiger! Also, I would bet far more people under the age of 30 are playing golf today because of the influence that Tiger brought to the game!

 

Just let that crazy man keep talking.. His ignorance will keep pouring out!

post #59 of 117

It's a tough one. Tiger brought the sport to a whole new audience & generation, but as time has gone on the attention that went hand-in-hand with that has been increasingly negative. I think it depends on how you feel personally about the concept of a role-model in sport, and whether private life should be entirely seperate from the public eye.

post #60 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post

No kidding. Must be nice to be able to afford to dump a full set of great clubs to make a statement that no one will notice. And what exactly was the motivation? Because the guy dissed Tiger? Seriously?

 

People shop at Walmart or buy clothes made in sweatshops by child labour but draw the line at supporting anyone who makes dumb statements about Tiger Woods??? Asinine.

 

Not because of the Tiger comment but because of the long putter comment.

 

I purchase a complete new set of clubs at least once every two years.

 

A couple of years ago I bought three new sets of irons in one year.

 

So yes I can afford to dump a set because I feel like it.

 

You all are free to do as you please just as I am free to NOT purchase TM because I don't like their CEO.

 

What's it to you anyways.

 

Asinine  .............

post #61 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post

Can probably bet that no one on tour had cheated on their wife with over forty women before. Tiger's a skunk... admit it.

 

Almost 100% positive (I'm taking the words of people who are quite likely to know) that you'd lose that bet… fifty times over.

post #62 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

Almost 100% positive (I'm taking the words of people who are quite likely to know) that you'd lose that bet… fifty times over.

If doubt if you'll find numbers, we don't even know the numbers on Tiger, but Erik would undoubtedly be correct about other players having as many extramarital affairs as Tiger. And who are we to judge? Some guys have no fidelity, and others have marital problems that lead to infidelity - but the bottom line is infidelity is infidelity.

 

I've been following golf as a kid since the '60's when there was no media following or talking about player's "exploits."

 

But even as a kid, I remember guys with "playboy" status.

post #63 of 117
Arnie was the King on more than the golf course but off too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post

If doubt if you'll find numbers, we don't even know the numbers on Tiger, but Erik would undoubtedly be correct about other players having as many extramarital affairs as Tiger. And who are we to judge? Some guys have no fidelity, and others have marital problems that lead to infidelity - but the bottom line is infidelity is infidelity.

I've been following golf as a kid since the '60's when there was no media following or talking about player's "exploits."

But even as a kid, I remember guys with "playboy" status.
post #64 of 117

Back to the topic at hand ........

 

This is another reason for me not to never buy a TM product again -

 

"So every year the company comes out with a new must-have item—think the golf version of Apple. Even changing the color of the drivers from black to white drove sales. "I think we surprised the industry, we surprised golfers, we surprised ourselves," laughed King."

 

I am in the tech industry and as soon as I read that TM wants to be the Apple of golf I knew it was not the company for me.

 

Apple is all flash but is NOT about leading edge technology. All they do is acquire existing technology, dumb it down and repackage into a product for the average consumer.

 

I will give Apple credit for being an absolutely brilliant marketing company but technology ........ no way.

 

Steve Job was brilliant at finding and marketing technology that consumers did not know they wanted or even needed. It remains to be seen if Apple can continue without his vision.

 

Don't forget when Apple fired Job the following CEOs drove Apple to the verge of bankruptcy. Even Microsoft invested $150M to help them out (now Microsoft had other strategic reasons to make the investment) - "Back in 1997, Microsoft (MSFT) invested $150 million in Apple (AAPL) when its back was against the wall." Forbes - Peter Cohan.

 

The actual quote from regarding King the impact of Tiger Woods and the decline of golf -

 

"Golf has been on a 16-year continual decline since Tiger came into golf," King said. "Now, has he had an impact on people watching TV because he's maybe the greatest athlete of our generation? Absolutely. But are those people running out, taking golf vacations, buying a home on a golf course, buying a new driver? No, they're not. So Tiger, play well, get people watching TV, sell more spots, but it's not helping us."

 

So I guess the aging demographics has NOTHING to do with the decline of golf, the economy has NOTHING to do with the decline of golf, the fact there is an over supply of golf courses and golf residential development has NOTHING to do with the decline of golf, the fact the a large portion of new golf courses are aimed at the high end and maybe less people can afford to play there and that has NOTHING to do with the decline of golf ??????????

 

Maybe without TW golf would be like tennis and essentially be wiped out.

 

I used to be a racket sports fanatic. I played tennis, squash and racketball daily. I used to watch tennis on TV every weekend. 

 

So what happened to tennis. Of the two sports it would be more logical for golf to have the bigger decline vs. tennis - 

 

- for tennis most municipal courts are free vs. not so for golf (I don't know of a single municipal golf course where you can play for free)

- even memberships at private facilities are cheaper for tennis vs. golf course memberships (a high end tennis club with pool and fitness = $25K membership and $200 monthly dues vs. $85K membership and $400 monthly dues)

- a good tennis racquet will set you back $300 on average vs. $2,000 for a good set of golf clubs

- tennis can be played in a hour to 90 minutes vs. an average of 4.5 hours for golf

 

I am definitely not a marketing guy so please correct me if I am wrong but I always thought more exposure, whether in the press, TV or live, is always good for a company and/or sport. 

 

But according to King exposure = reduced sales. Can a marketing expert please chime in here cause my technical brain does not compute this. This would seem to be the first instance whereby positive press (before the famous 9 iron) actually hurt sales. AMAZING. Isn't King contradicting himself because why does he sponsor golfers, have ads on TV and in magazines if exposure does not equate to increase sales ????????

post #65 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by ay33660 View Post

Apple is all flash but is NOT about leading edge technology. All they do is acquire existing technology, dumb it down and repackage into a product for the average consumer.

 

That's an incredibly shallow thought pattern on one of the world's most valuable companies - a company that shows tremendous growth in multiple market segments and has for a long, LONG time now. Apple has pioneered and pushed for the advancement of many, many technologies, as well as pushed the leading edge of design, which goes a LONG way beyond "dumbing it down."

 

I know a LOT of geeks using Apple products. A LOT of geeks prefer Macs, a lot of smart people, leaders of their industries, etc.

 

The fact that Apple was in a dire situation in the 1990s - and Microsoft invested largely to settle patent disputes, and cross-license things with Apple, and was still making a LOT of money selling Mac versions of Office even then - makes their current status all the more impressive. It's also created resent…

 

You can dislike them all you want, but spare us the half-assed anti-fanboy comments.

 

Better yet, since this is a golf forum, stick to talking about golf.

post #66 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by ay33660 View Post

Back to the topic at hand ........

This is another reason for me not to never buy a TM product again -


So you will continue to purchase TM regardless of the rest of your post's content. Glad you made that clear.
post #67 of 117

As for golf, taylormade is a volume producer, they will pump out products fast, they are good at it, and are able to produce a semi-quality product. Sometimes they hit a homerun with a product, like when the white adjustable driver came out, its just icing on the cake. Companies like Mizuno, Titleist, have there markets towards more good players, they go after this market well. They put in more time in research, and are probably more quality driven. Hoping to get a few new customers each year, while really focusing on getting a new product to there existing market base.

 

But i give taylormade credit, they are a monster, i would agree, the similarities in growth between apple and taylormade are there.

 

As for Tiger woods, he's had a huge imput. Because he increased demand. Would technology be similar today, yea i think so. Its a natural progression of research and technology. But look at Tiger, he never used an adjustable driver. He wasn't using the next greatest thing. So i could say he only marketed Nike, but not a specific piece of equipment. So in that regards, yes, he wasn't that influencial in growing golf technology, but he did bring in a huge demand for the game of golf, which gave these companies a larger base to attack with there products.

post #68 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post


So you will continue to purchase TM regardless of the rest of your post's content. Glad you made that clear.

 

Great pickup. I like someone who gets the details.

 

Curse that double negative and the extra "n".

post #69 of 117

TM really hasn't developed anything new in golf either, the slot is 20 years old, white heads on drivers had already been done too but TM got the marketing right so that to the masses it appears they developed the technology and have a superior product.   Their products are good enough that they live up to the hype and now have a devoted following which has stolen substantial market share from their primary competitors. 

 

You have to appreciate what TM has accomplished in their industry, but King needs to be careful. He's not Steve Jobs, not even close. I don't know anyone that credits King as being the brains of TM. When King goes out and spews his poorly thought out opinions he's at risk of alienating his customers, just as we've seen in this thread.

post #70 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

 

TM really hasn't developed anything new in golf either, the slot is 20 years old, white heads on drivers had already been done too but TM got the marketing right so that to the masses it appears they developed the technology and have a superior product.   Their products are good enough that they live up to the hype and now have a devoted following which has stolen substantial market share from their primary competitors. 

 

You have to appreciate what TM has accomplished in their industry, but King needs to be careful. He's not Steve Jobs, not even close. I don't know anyone that credits King as being the brains of TM. When King goes out and spews his poorly thought out opinions he's at risk of alienating his customers, just as we've seen in this thread.

 

You stated this a hell of a lot better than I did.

 

Changing the driver head to white was not a technological improvement but was great marketing.

 

The slot was really re-introduced by Adams but many will think that it was TM.

 

Jobs was a brilliant brilliant guy.

post #71 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchepp View Post


The other thing is likely golf follows the economy as well. More people play when the economy is good like in 2000, and 2009, and less when it is bad like 2001 and 2011. So pinning it on Tiger is hyperbole of which TM is the king.

I dropped my Club membership in Feb to build up savings and prepare for more bad news. I still hit the publics but not nearly as much. So I think this is very valid. Things like golf, pool service, lawn service etc are the first to go when times get tough.

 

Tiger is a personality more now than a golfer to many people. A personality will not have much effect on participation. 

 

Personally though if the participation rate goes up much more the courses will be even more packed than they are now.

post #72 of 117
TM has a midling product?

Seriously?

I've hit and/or bought Titleist, TM, Adams, Callaway over the last two years.

All the OEMs are very good and do some things better than others. Good luck finding Mizuno woods on tour. TM does drivers and the RBZ line well, but I don't like their shafts. Mizuno does irons well. Titleist is traditional and has an excellent line for players w speed. Adams has a good lineup.Callaway is making a return

Point is TM markets well and, except for wedges, has a good technical lineup to back it up
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