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Taylormade CEO says the sport has declined since Tiger Woods came into golf - Page 6

post #91 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post


Since you're on your little stepladder, I'll entertain you. You mention that Tiger has influenced a decline in morals, integrity and class in golf. If you feel this way, I am left to believe that you are easily influenced by other people's actions/words - yet you are pointing the finger at others saying Nike is controlling their thoughts. 


What Tiger Woods does on or off the course is in no way reducing the sportsmanship, class, etiquette, or integrity of golf as a sport. Does it impact his own image? Absolutely. Does it persuade viewers at home to mimic his actions and behavior when he throws a club or drops an FCC no-no? I would say no, because enough people do that on their own without needing to justify it as a "Hey, Tiger does it!" action.


I am not sure how you think Tiger has any impact on how the other players portray themselves on or off of the golf course in terms of behavior. I tend to give people more credit and think that they are not so easily influenced by other people's actions though.


So in short, who (or what) is influencing you to be so anti-Tiger? Typically, people with radical and nonsensical views like what you're boasting are the types that are simply told "Hey, do this: _____" and you jump. The follower type.

On-topic


This is a ridiculous claim by King and I laughed at most of what was said. Think of all of the different platforms that Tiger has brought in attention to golf. Hell, I would put money on the fact that his video games alone give more exposure to the game of golf, especially to the 12-18 demographic, than any other entity alone.
Well said pal.

What tiger does at home or off the course in no way should affect the everyday morale of golf and the tour. Unfortunately the shower of attention he gets sometimes overshadows the actual golf he plays.
post #92 of 117
Who says more money and more celebrity "advances" golf? Depends on your perspective, doesn't it? But if you say that Tiger has done a lot for golf, you are making assumptions that others might not make.

It can be argued that pro football has declined because of the increased number of teams and games played and money spent on the sport. That when big business flies in the window, the sport flies out.

This site benefitted from the golf surge when its far sighted entrepeneur founder saw the opportunity and went for it, with what looks to me like outstanding success. I am grateful for the chance to play on this course and want to tread on no toes. However, let's be honest, you and I are pawns -- consumers -- to be delivered to advertisers and much of what is said here furthers the agendas of the golf industry. Does that "advance" golf? Again, depends on your perspective and assumptions.

Tiger Woods and the PGA and sponsors foster golf as a business, sure; golf as a sport, maybe not. All one can say for certain is that it has changed and is changing.

Ben Hogan thought that all the ads and logos plastered on golfers was appalling. You wouldn't find him wearing a sign that said "Smoke Chesterfields!" On the other hand he did ads for Chesterfeld and other companies, and he was in no way put out when a pro golfer played with his clubs, and I think in his lifetime you'd see Tom Kite and some others wearing a Hogan cap, and the founder didn't kick about it.

So far you don't see pro golfers on the course accoutered like NASCAR drivers or Tour de France cyclists, probably because it's a different market segment that the advertising is appealng to. Golfers advertise golf equipment [duh] and luxury items like fancy watches. A different market niche from motor oil and building supply companies. Baseball players advertise snuff and chewing gum and beer. And so on. Golf delivers a market segment that is luxury lifestyle but short of being a target for Lear jets and Bentleys.

Things change. For better or worse is a matter of opinion. Presumably the Taylormade CEO has his opinion, based on whatever reasons he thinks he has.

But I do find somewhere between laughable and tragic all the talk in this forum about boycotting Taylormade's products because of something the CEO said about Tiger Woods. Reminds me of the boycott of the Dixie Chicks because of a political statement Maines made, except that a boycott of Taylormade over Tiger Woods is closer to the laughable side on the continuum.

The whole golf products endorsement industry I find repellant.

Are we a better society because -- apparently -- some people buy products based on association with a famous name? [O.k., maybe I bought Hogan clubs because of that association, but don't forget they were put together 300 miles from where I live and at the time the famous person whose name was on them had an office at the company and I bought them used for a song. :)]

"I wanna be like Mike" sold a lot of overpriced shoes to a lot of kids who couldn't afford them, or who could buy them because they got into something illegal. Isn't all this manipulation by Madison Avenue psych experts a fraud on the ignorant and the susceptible? [Which I might apply to the slogans of the NRA too.]

Anyway whenever you scratch a sports hero you find feet of clay, whether you are talking about Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Roger Clemons, Walter Hagen, Tiger Woods, Bobby Fisher, or whomever. Nor does their endorsement on any product or activity mean a damn thing, except that you are apt to get skinned by some ad agency and NY stock exchange listed company.
Edited by Ole_Tom_Morris - 5/7/13 at 2:01pm
post #93 of 117

This is getting asinine.  That Tiger Woods grew the sport of golf and that the sport benefited from his emergence is indubitable.  It doesn't take hundreds of words to explain why, unless somebody is attempting mental gymnastics to disprove it.

post #94 of 117

Presumably, the CEO of Taylor Made was referring to golf as sales of clubs and not in the context of moral and ethics. If he was talking about moral and ethics then I don't know what gave him a basis to judge. But if he was referring to golf as a retail sector, it smelled badly of jealously.

 

I don't agree with pretty much of what Tiger did outside of golf. But that doesn't mean I don't respect the way he had created the exposure for golf no one could dream of.

 

I remember before Tiger came on board, a PGA tour money list winner was about $1m. Nowadays you get that amount for winning 1 tournament. No impact? Outside of US, golf has picked speed in Arabian and Asian countries from 1997 partly due to affluency but mainly due to Tiger. You can ask any Chinese in mainland China which golfer they know and it would be Tiger, not Faldo, not Davis Love III and even Phil Mickelson.

 

And on the retail side, I see every young kid on the golf course wanted to dress like Tiger and play like him. I don't recall so many wearing straw hats like Greg Norman or patterned shirts like Nicklaus even in the heights of their career.

post #95 of 117
 

 

I think the recession has had the biggest impact on the growth (or lack) of the game. But Tiger has certainly had a huge impact on the awareness of the game. All you have to do is check the TV ratings the weeks he plays. That should eventually promote growth, especially around the world.

post #96 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris View Post

Ben Hogan thought that all the ads and logos plastered on golfers was appalling. You wouldn't find him wearing a sign that said "Smoke Chesterfields!" On the other hand he did ads for Chesterfeld and other companies, and he was in no way put out when a pro golfer played with his clubs, and I think in his lifetime you'd see Tom Kite and some others wearing a Hogan cap, and the founder didn't kick about it.

 

Don't forget that story about a young tour player who politely waited to ask Hogan for some advice, Ben asked him "Whose clubs do you play?" and when the guy responded with Dunlop instead of Hogan, Ben curtly responded "Then go ask Mr. Dunlop" and refused to talk with him.   I'd call that sort of rudeness rather appalling, wouldn't you?

 

FWIW, my first two sets of quality clubs were Hogan Radials and Hogan Edge GCD Mids.

post #97 of 117
So what is being said is--

-- more money in golf is better

--more internationalization of golf is better

--it's good that kids have a golf hero equivalent to Michael Jordan or today, LeBron James

all of which is based on assumptions.

And none of which explains why it is such sacrilege to deprecate Tiger Woods' role in the business and sport of golf to the point that a boycott of TaylorMade products is appropriate. I mean, if you think that King's comment was dumb then why get all punitive over it? Isn't it sufficient to say "How dumb can he get?"
post #98 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisguy View Post

Don't forget that story about a young tour player who politely waited to ask Hogan for some advice, Ben asked him "Whose clubs do you play?" and when the guy responded with Dunlop instead of Hogan, Ben curtly responded "Then go ask Mr. Dunlop" and refused to talk with him.   I'd call that sort of rudeness rather appalling, wouldn't you?

 

 

It was Gary Player, and he called Hogan on the phone to ask him some questions about his swing.  Not sure where you came up with the "politely waited" and the "curtly responded" except to try to show Hogan in the worst possible light.

 

It's true that Hogan didn't suffer fools (or foolish requests) gladly. But if you are going to badmouth him, at least get your story right.

post #99 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post

It was Gary Player, and he called Hogan on the phone to ask him some questions about his swing.  Not sure where you came up with the "politely waited" and the "curtly responded" except to try to show Hogan in the worst possible light.

 

It's true that Hogan didn't suffer fools (or foolish requests) gladly. But if you are going to badmouth him, at least get your story right

How exactly did what I wrote mischaracterize in any way what happened?  Are you contending that Player was less than polite?  How could Hogan's response be described in any fashion other than at least curt?  It was damn rude.  How on earth would Hogan know if the question that Player sought to ask was foolish, since he refused to hear it?   I fail to see any point to what you are saying, other than to be a fanboi defending the less-pleasant side of a legendary athlete and/or disagree for the sake of being disagreeable. 

post #100 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisguy View Post

How exactly did what I wrote mischaracterize in any way what happened?  Are you contending that Player was less than polite?  How could Hogan's response be described in any fashion other than at least curt?  It was damn rude.  How on earth would Hogan know if the question that Player sought to ask was foolish, since he refused to hear it?   I fail to see any point to what you are saying, other than to be a fanboi defending the less-pleasant side of a legendary athlete and/or disagree for the sake of being disagreeable. 

I'm sure King would gladly help out Rory or Tiger if they needed some help from him.   It's business, Hogan wasn't one to offer help to his competition, so no shock he wouldn't help Player given he wasn't a customer of his irons. 

post #101 of 117

Golf may have declined, but sales have not...

 

TaylorMade-Adidas Golf Reports Strong Q1 2013
Global industry dominance continues with strong metalwood, iron and footwear growth
CARLSBAD, CALIF. (May 3, 2013) - TaylorMade-adidas Golf (TMaG), the largest and most profitable golf equipment, apparel and footwear company in the world, today announced strong Q1 2013 results of $559 million (€423 million), representing an increase of 13% on a currency-neutral basis. Additionally, TMaG recorded significant currency-neutral, year-over-year growth in nearly every category in Q1, including metalwoods (+8%), irons (+35%), balls (+21%), and footwear (+23%). Regionally, the U.S., which accounts for approximately half of TMaG's global sales, enjoyed the strongest market growth with sales up +21% year-over-year.

TMaG's ongoing success is a direct product of the company's expanding global dominance in the golf equipment, footwear and apparel industries, as evidenced by numerous recent achievements:
• The R1 driver holds the No.1 position in U.S. sales.1
• RocketBladez irons, launched to market last November, is far and away the top-selling iron in the U.S.2
• RBZ and RBZ Stage 2 fairway woods and Rescue hybrids currently rank No. 1 and No. 2 in U.S. sales.3
• TaylorMade is the No. 1 driver and fairway wood brand on the world's six major professional golf tours: PGA, European, Champions, Japan, LPGA and Web.com.
• adizero footwear, launched in January, is having remarkable success around the world, making it the best-selling golf shoe in company history.

post #102 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post

Golf may have declined, but sales have not...

 

TaylorMade-Adidas Golf Reports Strong Q1 2013
Global industry dominance continues with strong metalwood, iron and footwear growth
CARLSBAD, CALIF. (May 3, 2013) - TaylorMade-adidas Golf (TMaG), the largest and most profitable golf equipment, apparel and footwear company in the world, today announced strong Q1 2013 results of $559 million (€423 million), representing an increase of 13% on a currency-neutral basis. Additionally, TMaG recorded significant currency-neutral, year-over-year growth in nearly every category in Q1, including metalwoods (+8%), irons (+35%), balls (+21%), and footwear (+23%). Regionally, the U.S., which accounts for approximately half of TMaG's global sales, enjoyed the strongest market growth with sales up +21% year-over-year.

TMaG's ongoing success is a direct product of the company's expanding global dominance in the golf equipment, footwear and apparel industries, as evidenced by numerous recent achievements:
• The R1 driver holds the No.1 position in U.S. sales.1
• RocketBladez irons, launched to market last November, is far and away the top-selling iron in the U.S.2
• RBZ and RBZ Stage 2 fairway woods and Rescue hybrids currently rank No. 1 and No. 2 in U.S. sales.3
• TaylorMade is the No. 1 driver and fairway wood brand on the world's six major professional golf tours: PGA, European, Champions, Japan, LPGA and Web.com.
• adizero footwear, launched in January, is having remarkable success around the world, making it the best-selling golf shoe in company history.

 

Interesting. Somehow I got the wrong impression that Callaway and Nike were the new goliaths of golf.
post #103 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris View Post

 

Interesting. Somehow I got the wrong impression that Callaway and Nike were the new goliaths of golf.

 

I recall going over some Nike vs Taylormade info in another thread a while ago (possible when McIlroy rumors of switching to Nike were flying around), and it seemed like the general feeling was Nike equipment still trails far behind the longer-established companies in terms of revenue, although Nike merchandise does very well.

post #104 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris View Post

 

Interesting. Somehow I got the wrong impression that Callaway and Nike were the new goliaths of golf.

Callaway was a goliath but for the last three years they have posted major losses on their financials as well as long market share.  Most of their issues had to do with a product line that was too confusing and poor marketing but they seem to have addressed it this year and should gain back some market share. 

post #105 of 117

eldrick defenders continue to say its okay to cheat on your wife because someone else has already done it before eldick.

 

I often wonder what all those wives or future wives married to some of you schmucks would think about your convictions on cheating on them.  You think they'd say to you that cheating is okay just because eldrick did it first and he is your hero?  Some of you people are sick and have no integrity or honor.

 

But its oaky if eldrick does it cause I loves eldrick.  Give me a break.  The man has no honor and is no role model no matter how much some of you sycophants may claim otherwise.

post #106 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

Right muggs because no one ever cheated on their wife before Tiger.  Are you related to Elin?  She found herself another sugar daddy so maybe it's time you let it go. 
lets see she got over 100 mill and needs a sugar daddy?$$?
I know the owner of a golf store and Nike took a hit when tiger was exposed to the 19 hoes. Parents were not bringing junior in to get tw out fitted.
Oh I think Gary player started the fitness deal. I don't think he used drugs either
post #107 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnorris74 View Post

I have to agree in saying that king made a rediculous comment saying tiger has influenced a decline in golf. In actuality the most common limiting factor of involvement is commitment to the game. Most people who decide to pick up the game often times their interest fizzles when they realize it take putting in a few days a week at the range before you even step on a course. So to say that tiger influences that negatively is just not true.
I want to say that for me the biggest turn off in golf came from SlOW play...it should not take more than 4 hours to play. Now 5 hour rounds are the norm and they go on over 6 at some tracts.
post #108 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseV View Post

eldrick defenders continue to say its okay to cheat on your wife because someone else has already done it before eldick.

 

I often wonder what all those wives or future wives married to some of you schmucks would think about your convictions on cheating on them.  You think they'd say to you that cheating is okay just because eldrick did it first and he is your hero?  Some of you people are sick and have no integrity or honor.

 

But its oaky if eldrick does it cause I loves eldrick.  Give me a break.  The man has no honor and is no role model no matter how much some of you sycophants may claim otherwise.

 

A) You are off-topic

 

B) You are off-topic with utter twaddle, as no one has said it is OK to cheat on your wife.

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