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Relief from Fence - Page 2

post #19 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulesman View Post

If it not physically identified/marked then it must be defined in the Local Rules.

 

That's why I asked as OP said "likely".

post #20 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dormie1360 View Post

 

I guess I'm not clear on the "base".  Is part of the fence, ie the posts  cemented into it.....then I think D24/3 is very similar.  If it's an obstruction not associated with a OB boundary then I think D24-/2b6 applies. If I were the committee I would define the OB as the inside edge of the concrete path or the path as an integral part of the course.

 

24/3

Concrete Bases of Boundary Fence Posts

 

Q.Posts of a boundary fence have been set in concrete bases 14 inches in diameter. Are the parts of the bases within the boundary of the course obstructions?

 

A.No. Such a base is part of the fence and thus no part of it is an obstruction - see Definition of "Obstructions." If such bases are at or below ground level, the boundary line is the inside points of the fence posts at ground level. If they are above ground level, the Committee should clarify the location of the boundary line.

 

24-2b/6

Relief from Immovable Obstruction Incidentally Results in Relief from Boundary Fence

 

Q.A player's ball is in such a position that a boundary fence and an immovable obstruction near the fence both interfere with the area of the player's intended swing. It is reasonable for him to play the stroke despite the interference from the boundary fence. If the player takes relief from the obstruction under Rule 24-2b, he will incidentally get relief from the fence. Is the player entitled to invoke Rule 24-2b in such circumstances?

 

A.Yes.

 

To clarify, there was a strip of concrete, about 12 inches in width, running the entire length of the fence, and further.  The poles from the chain link fence were embedded into the concrete strip at various locations along the fence.  The posts of the boundary fence were certainly not set into their own individual concrete bases.  Had the fence not been there, the concrete strip would have been there.  Seems like the consensus is that the player was entitled to relief from the concrete strip, without penalty, and the incidental relief from the fence was within the rules. 

 

I am playing the course again this weekend, I will take and post a picture :)

post #21 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odogesq View Post

 

To clarify, there was a strip of concrete, about 12 inches in width, running the entire length of the fence, and further.  The poles from the chain link fence were embedded into the concrete strip at various locations along the fence.  The posts of the boundary fence were certainly not set into their own individual concrete bases.  Had the fence not been there, the concrete strip would have been there.  Seems like the consensus is that the player was entitled to relief from the concrete strip, without penalty, and the incidental relief from the fence was within the rules. 

 

I am playing the course again this weekend, I will take and post a picture :)

 

 

If the concrete serves as the base of the fence with the posts set it it, then it is part of the fence and as such no relief should be allowed.  I would ask in the pro shop if the base of the concrete is the boundary or if the fence posts themselves are the boundary marker.  That would change how the issue is addressed, because if the ball is sitting on the concrete, the ball would be out of bounds if the boundary is the edge of the concrete.  If the posts themselves are the boundary, then the ball would be in bounds but no relief is allowed without penalty.

 

Quote:

24/3

Concrete Bases of Boundary Fence Posts

Q.Posts of a boundary fence have been set in concrete bases 14 inches in diameter. Are the parts of the bases within the boundary of the course obstructions?

A.No. Such a base is part of the fence and thus no part of it is an obstruction - see Definition of "Obstructions." If such bases are at or below ground level, the boundary line is the inside points of the fence posts at ground level. If they are above ground level, the Committee should clarify the location of the boundary line.

post #22 of 31

One of the courses I play has an identical scenario, except they painted a white stripe on the concrete on the other side of the fence. Therefore, anyone who has their swing impaired by the fence gets relief.

 

Given the OP’s situation and his playing partner doesn’t get relief and opts for an unplayable lie. Where does he go with the drop?

post #23 of 31
If it's a lateral fence 28b may not be an option. 28a would give relief. 28c would probably give relief.

If the player deems his ball to be unplayable, he must, under penalty of one stroke:

a. Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or

b. Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or

c. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole.

If the unplayable ball is in a bunker, the player may proceed under Clause a, b or c. If he elects to proceed under Clause b or c, a ball must be dropped in the bunker.
post #24 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dormie1360 View Post

If it's a lateral fence 28b may not be an option. 28a would give relief. 28c would probably give relief.

If the player deems his ball to be unplayable, he must, under penalty of one stroke:

a. Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or

b. Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or

c. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole.

If the unplayable ball is in a bunker, the player may proceed under Clause a, b or c. If he elects to proceed under Clause b or c, a ball must be dropped in the bunker.

 

 

Sounds like the fence in the OP’s situation runs perpendicular behind the green. So, it doesn’t seem possible to drop two club lengths (to take the fence from interfering with the swing) while still being no closer to the hole.

 

So if he goes back to where he originally hit the shot, he is penalized the same as if he found his ball was OB?

post #25 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyThursday View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dormie1360 View Post

If it's a lateral fence 28b may not be an option. 28a would give relief. 28c would probably give relief.

If the player deems his ball to be unplayable, he must, under penalty of one stroke:

a. Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or

b. Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or

c. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole.

If the unplayable ball is in a bunker, the player may proceed under Clause a, b or c. If he elects to proceed under Clause b or c, a ball must be dropped in the bunker.

 

 

Sounds like the fence in the OP’s situation runs perpendicular behind the green. So, it doesn’t seem possible to drop two club lengths (to take the fence from interfering with the swing) while still being no closer to the hole.

 

So if he goes back to where he originally hit the shot, he is penalized the same as if he found his ball was OB?

 

That's how I read it.

post #26 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyThursday View Post

 

 

Sounds like the fence in the OP’s situation runs perpendicular behind the green. So, it doesn’t seem possible to drop two club lengths (to take the fence from interfering with the swing) while still being no closer to the hole.

 

So if he goes back to where he originally hit the shot, he is penalized the same as if he found his ball was OB?

 

One other thing to remember is that you can invoke 28c again after the first drop.  So, depending on the angles, you may be able to drop within 2 club lengths no closer but still be too close to the fence to play a shot towards the pin.  Might give you a sideways shot, however.  Also, taking another 2 club length drop, (another PS) may get you far enough away from the fence.

 

Depending on the situation, player, 2PS by the fence might be better than stroke and distance....probably not often, but it is an option. 

post #27 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dormie1360 View Post

 

One other thing to remember is that you can invoke 28c again after the first drop.  So, depending on the angles, you may be able to drop within 2 club lengths no closer but still be too close to the fence to play a shot towards the pin.  Might give you a sideways shot, however.  Also, taking another 2 club length drop, (another PS) may get you far enough away from the fence.

 

Depending on the situation, player, 2PS by the fence might be better than stroke and distance....probably not often, but it is an option. 

 

Very interesting. I didn’t know you could take two unplayable lies back to back without hitting the ball.

post #28 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyThursday View Post

 

Very interesting. I didn’t know you could take two unplayable lies back to back without hitting the ball.

 

A couple of decisions that you might find interesting.  Key point to remember, unlike taking relief from an abnormal ground condition, obstruction, or wrong putting green, where you have to redrop if you still have interference, not so under R28 Ball unplayable.  If you drop and your ball is still unplayable, IE rolled back into the same place, the ball is in play and you now have a new situation.  Something to consider when you are thinking about dropping under R28c.

 

 

 

28/3

Ball Dropped Under Unplayable Ball Rule Comes to Rest in Original Position or Another Position at Which Ball Is Unplayable

 

Q.A player deemed his ball unplayable and, under Rule 28c, dropped his ball within two club-lengths of the spot where it lay. The ball came to rest in the original position or another position at which the ball was unplayable. What is the ruling?

 

A.The ball was in play when it was dropped - Rule 20-4. Thus, if the ball came to rest in the original position, the player must again invoke the unplayable ball Rule, incurring an additional penalty stroke, unless he decides to play the ball as it lies. The same applies if the ball came to rest in another position at which it was unplayable, assuming that the ball did not roll into a position covered by Rule 20-2c, in which case re-dropping without penalty would be required.

 

 

28/5

Regression Under Unplayable Ball Rule

 

Q.A player plays a stroke from Point A to Point B. Point B is in an area from which it is very difficult to extricate the ball. The player considers deeming the ball unplayable but this would result in a stroke-and-distance penalty (Rule 28a). Dropping behind under Rule 28b is impossible due to a boundary fence and dropping within two club-lengths under Rule 28c is not feasible because it would require a considerable number of such drops to escape the area. The player plays from Point B and moves the ball a few feet to Point C, where the ball is clearly unplayable. Under Rule 28a, may the player:

 

(a) deem the ball unplayable at Point C and drop a ball under penalty of one stroke at Point B, and then

(b) deem the ball unplayable at Point B and drop a ball, under an additional penalty of one stroke, at Point A?

 

A.No. Under Rule 28a, the player would be entitled to drop a ball only at the place from which he played his last stroke (Point B).

In the circumstances, the player's only alternative is to invoke Rule 28c a sufficient number of times (starting at Point C and dropping the ball sideways within two club-lengths each time) to get the ball into a playable position.

 

28/6.5

Player Deems Ball Unplayable a Second Time and Wishes to Proceed Under Stroke and Distance After Dropping a Ball Under Other Unplayable Option

 

Q.A player plays a stroke from Point A to Point B. The player deems his ball unplayable and proceeds under either Rule 28b or 28c. After dropping under penalty of one stroke, the ball comes to rest at Point C. The player deems his ball unplayable for a second time and wishes to proceed under Rule 28a, playing from Point A. Is this permissible?

 

A.Yes. The player may play from Point A because he did not make a stroke at the ball from either Point B or Point C. Point A was the spot from which the original ball was last played. The player would incur a total of two penalty strokes.

post #29 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dormie1360 View Post

 

28/6.5

Player Deems Ball Unplayable a Second Time and Wishes to Proceed Under Stroke and Distance After Dropping a Ball Under Other Unplayable Option

 

Q.A player plays a stroke from Point A to Point B. The player deems his ball unplayable and proceeds under either Rule 28b or 28c. After dropping under penalty of one stroke, the ball comes to rest at Point C. The player deems his ball unplayable for a second time and wishes to proceed under Rule 28a, playing from Point A. Is this permissible?

 

A.Yes. The player may play from Point A because he did not make a stroke at the ball from either Point B or Point C. Point A was the spot from which the original ball was last played. The player would incur a total of two penalty strokes.

 

Not many people know that one.

post #30 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulesman View Post

 

Not many people know that one.

 

 

The only time I ever see it is on the exam.  a1_smile.gif

post #31 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulesman View Post

Not many people know that one.

I didn't.....

Gonna win a couple of beers betting on the answer now though! a3_biggrin.gif
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