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Objections to Derek Ernst thanking God after his win? - Page 9

post #145 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

No the point for me is his timing.  I don't care why, but I do care that it comes off as preaching when he chooses to do it in front of the microphone.  He's a golfer, not a minister.  If he wants to be a minister, then take the pulpit to church.

Yes, but it's not really worth making that big of a deal about it, is it?  If he wants to try and sell me on his religion, that's fine.  He could also choose to try and sell me on his new clubs, his new energy drink, or whatever.  Doesn't mean I'm buying any of them, but he can go ahead and try.  Actually, as I'm thinking about this ... how different is it really?  If I am a cruddy golfer (what a coincidence, I am!) and Phil Mickelson comes on and raves about his new driver helping him win one week and I believe him and go out and buy one thinking it will advance my cause, I don't know that that is much different than Joe Blow going to church and praying because he thinks it will help him because he thinks it helped Webb the next week.

 

(Also, to be fair ... evangelizing in church isn't doing much to advance the numbers because there you are - quite literally - preaching to the choir. ;))

 

This is one of the few things I feel very strongly about.  I despise anyone who thinks that it's his job to push his religion on others.  I dislike evangelism in the extreme forms which it tends to take - the believe my way or you'll burn in Hell philosophy.  I have nothing but antipathy for churches which use that sort of guilt to build their membership, then use it to fleece their congregations so the leaders can live like kings.  These things turn me strongly against any attempt to draw me from my beliefs. If it's an overreaction, then so be it.

post #146 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

In reference to your use of the word "almost" I would like to quote the famous philosopher, Inigo Montoya ... "I do not think that word means what you think it means." ;)

 

Yes, but it's not really worth making that big of a deal about it, is it?  If he wants to try and sell me on his religion, that's fine.  He could also choose to try and sell me on his new clubs, his new energy drink, or whatever.  Doesn't mean I'm buying any of them, but he can go ahead and try.  Actually, as I'm thinking about this ... how different is it really?  If I am a cruddy golfer (what a coincidence, I am!) and Phil Mickelson comes on and raves about his new driver helping him win one week and I believe him and go out and buy one thinking it will advance my cause, I don't know that that is much different than Joe Blow going to church and praying because he thinks it will help him because he thinks it helped Webb the next week.

 

(Also, to be fair ... evangelizing in church isn't doing much to advance the numbers because there you are - quite literally - preaching to the choir. ;))

Made me laugh.  Thanks.  Needed that today.c3_clap.gif

post #147 of 201
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

This is one of the few things I feel very strongly about.  I despise anyone who thinks that it's his job to push his religion on others.  I dislike evangelism in the extreme forms which it tends to take - the believe my way or you'll burn in Hell philosophy.  I have nothing but antipathy for churches which use that sort of guilt to build their membership, then use it to fleece their congregations so the leaders can live like kings.  These things turn me strongly against any attempt to draw me from my beliefs.
If it's an overreaction, then so be it.

I think that you may not understand exactly what evangelism is. Evangelism us not telling you that ur hell bound if you don't believe what I do, but instead that I have something in my relationship with the Lord that is so incredible that I want to share it with as many people as possible.
That being said there are a lot of "christians" that may take it too far (I can speak from personal experience on this because my Dad is such even though he doesn't mean to, I think that he is so excited about his faith that he can't help but tell everyone he sees ot talks to).
I don't expect you to agree with me but as a christian I am compelled to share my faith with as many people as possible and if I had a pulpit as big as a golf tournament interview than I would hope that I would say the same thing.
As far as him "preaching" or "Bible thumping", I hardly think that what he said was either of those things... At least ESPN didn't do a whole bit/interview on his beliefs/views.
post #148 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp33 man View Post

I think that you may not understand exactly what evangelism is. Evangelism us not telling you that ur hell bound if you don't believe what I do, but instead that I have something in my relationship with the Lord that is so incredible that I want to share it with as many people as possible.
That being said there are a lot of "christians" that may take it too far (I can speak from personal experience on this because my Dad is such even though he doesn't mean to, I think that he is so excited about his faith that he can't help but tell everyone he sees ot talks to).
I don't expect you to agree with me but as a christian I am compelled to share my faith with as many people as possible and if I had a pulpit as big as a golf tournament interview than I would hope that I would say the same thing.
As far as him "preaching" or "Bible thumping", I hardly think that what he said was either of those things... At least ESPN didn't do a whole bit/interview on his beliefs/views.

 

Ever meet a true born again Christian?  I don't know how many times one of them has been quoted as saying (or told me in person) that you either take Jesus Christ as your savior or you will go to Hell.  There is no room in that philosophy for religious tolerance.  In their minds you can be the most perfect, clean living, God fearing person alive, but if you don't declare for Jesus you can't make it past St. Peter.  What kind of a mess do the heavenly guardians have when a clean living, devout Christian, Muslim, and Jew all arrive together?  

 

I have an issue with extremism in any form, but religious extremism scares me more than most.  Those people feel that they have an exclusive contract with God, and it doesn't matter if they are Christian, Jewish, Islamic, or any other faith, that belief is unshakable.  The way I see it, they can't all be right, as one God wouldn't back that sort of division unless He had a very weird sense of humor.  If they are all right, then that would mean that there are multiple Gods, and none of those faiths believe that.  Can all but one be wrong?  Maybe all of them are wrong?  I am at least willing to admit that I have no idea.  I'll live by my beliefs and take what comes, when it comes.  I believe in God but I'm skeptical of religion.  

post #149 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by phan52 View Post

 

So, if follows that Mr. Ernst is free to make his comments concerning his faith. Personally, I always look at it as a form of prosthelytizing and that always annoys the crap out of me. Leave it at home, I really don't care to hear it.

 

JMO.

 

I don't want to hear about homosexuality, but such is what will happen when watching any type of broadcast. 

post #150 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp33 man View Post

I think that you may not understand exactly what evangelism is. Evangelism us not telling you that ur hell bound if you don't believe what I do, but instead that I have something in my relationship with the Lord that is so incredible that I want to share it with as many people as possible.
That being said there are a lot of "christians" that may take it too far (I can speak from personal experience on this because my Dad is such even though he doesn't mean to, I think that he is so excited about his faith that he can't help but tell everyone he sees ot talks to).
I don't expect you to agree with me but as a christian I am compelled to share my faith with as many people as possible and if I had a pulpit as big as a golf tournament interview than I would hope that I would say the same thing.
As far as him "preaching" or "Bible thumping", I hardly think that what he said was either of those things... At least ESPN didn't do a whole bit/interview on his beliefs/views.

 

Ever meet a true born again Christian?  I don't know how many times one of them has been quoted as saying (or told me in person) that you either take Jesus Christ as your savior or you will go to Hell...

 

I have an issue with extremism in any form, but religious extremism scares me more than most.

 

Just to clarify the terminology: Every Christian is a "born again" Christian. The "born again" refers to the spiritual rebirth associated with becoming a Christian. (The exception is Catholicism, in which you're born again as a result of baptism - but the point is, the "born again" label has nothing to do with how likely they are to give you the "Accept Christ or burn in hell" speech.)

 

The people who are in your face about going to hell would be an example of extremism, and I share your disdain for that. But that's not what Ernst did.

post #151 of 201

None of what was said bothers me in the least bit. I just think it is overplayed when athletes, musicians, actors, etc. take the "First, I would like to thank god" approach.

 

No, first, thank your parents for bringing you into this world. Second, thank the individuals around you who have made the opportunity possible. Thank your support system who gave you the strength, courage and means to accomplish what it is that you did (this is where you should be including your religion, family, friends, sponsors, etc.). Last, go home and take a nice long look at yourself in the mirror and smile because you accomplished something because you did it.

The only sports figure who nauseates me to no end with their constant shoveling of religion is Tim Tebow.

On a side note, I don't mean to offend anyone by any means. I am also Catholic but I have never read the bible and do not attend church. Instead, I give back to people who need it most whether it is financially, verbally, moral support, being an upstanding citizen, father, husband and friend. Whatever the case may be - I'm there to help if I can. I definitely do not think listening to a sermon every Sunday and placing $20.00 in a bowl is going to get me to heaven faster than treating people with dignity and respect though like some people I know do.

post #152 of 201

It doesn't bother me either way when guys thank God at the end of a sporting event. He was a little more emphatic IMHO but to each their own. Personally I like the quote below from comedian Jeff Stilson. I would love to hear a someone say something like that.

 

 

Quote:

 

"I'm trying to wean myself off sports, it's too time consuming. I don't watch football anymore, I gave that up. I got tired of the interviews after the games, because the winning players always give credit to God, and the losers blame themselves. You know, just once I'd like to hear a player say, 'Yeah, we were in the game, until Jesus made me fumble. He hates our team." -Jeff Stilson

post #153 of 201

Catholics are not "born again".  We've never used that term.  

post #154 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post


The only sports figure who nauseates me to no end with their constant shoveling of religion is Tim Tebow.

Likely one reason no one wants him on their team.....

Count me as another Catholic who can't stand his proselytizing!
post #155 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post

Catholics are not "born again".  We've never used that term.  


You personally may not have heard it, but I assure you it is a Catholic term. Google if you are in doubt.

 

What we may be getting hung up on is "born again Christian" has come to mean a Fundamentalist Christian in modern parlance. (Maybe that's what Fourputt is referring to, actually.) Catholics are more likely to use the phrase "born again in baptism"

 

But anyway, the phrase "born again" is biblical and its original meaning was in reference to all Christians. 


Edited by sacm3bill - 5/9/13 at 3:22pm
post #156 of 201

Just because Google says we use it doesn't mean we use it.  I'm 53, went through 12 years of catechism and have never heard that term used by Catholics, ever, period.

post #157 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post

Just because Google says we use it doesn't mean we use it.  I'm 53, went through 12 years of catechism and have never heard that term used by Catholics, ever, period.

 

It's not Google that says Catholics use the term, it's the 37,000,000+ hits that say they do.

 

I was exposed to a lot of Protestant teachings throughout my life, but a lot of terms and doctrines were unfamiliar to me until I started studying theology. The average weekend sermons don't really get into that stuff.

post #158 of 201

I will try to summarize my thoughts on the topic/thread.

 

There seems to be an extreme double standard (that IMO seems to be getting worse).  When a gay person "comes out" publicly, he is praised for his bravery, beliefs, etc..  When someone like Ernst mentions anything related to God or Jesus, they are made out as the villain.

 

If a gay person or gay activist wants people to accept that lifestyle, then they should certainly accept someones belief in God.

post #159 of 201
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

Just to clarify the terminology: Every Christian is a "born again" Christian. The "born again" refers to the spiritual rebirth associated with becoming a Christian. (The exception is Catholicism, in which you're born again as a result of baptism - but the point is, the "born again" label has nothing to do with how likely they are to give you the "Accept Christ or burn in hell" speech.)

The people who are in your face about going to hell would be an example of extremism, and I share your disdain for that. But that's not what Ernst did.

I think that is what I was saying it just wasn't understood. Thanks
post #160 of 201

If you Google "Illuminati" and "Priory of Sion" and Catholic you get a lot of hits too.  Doesn't mean it is a term used this century.  

post #161 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post

I will try to summarize my thoughts on the topic/thread.

 

There seems to be an extreme double standard (that IMO seems to be getting worse).  When a gay person "comes out" publicly, he is praised for his bravery, beliefs, etc..  When someone like Ernst mentions anything related to God or Jesus, they are made out as the villain.

 

If a gay person or gay activist wants people to accept that lifestyle, then they should certainly accept someones belief in God.

C'mon everyone knows that "gay" is the "in" thing today, god is so 1800's.  <sarcasm>

post #162 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post

If you Google "Illuminati" and "Priory of Sion" and Catholic you get a lot of hits too.  Doesn't mean it is a term used this century.  

 

Ok, forget Google. I only suggested doing that so you could educate yourself. Either take my word for it as someone who's studied theology, or don't.

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