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Objections to Derek Ernst thanking God after his win? - Page 6

post #91 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by phan52 View Post

There should have been an 11th Commandment.

 

Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.

 

Not a bad idea. As long as all the Christian hating, gay-promoting, suicide-bombing people keep to themselves.

post #92 of 201

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtsalmela80 View Post

 

Well, you got me. I just cannot compete with such a powerful argument.

 

I was struck dumb by your ludicrous statement.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtsalmela80 View Post

 

You use the term bible thumper to be inflamatory, admit it. If you are going to name call and then put up some silly argument like "that's what they call themselves", I guess one can say the same thing about the N word in describing African Americans.

 

Just admit you hate the right wing and are quite leftist yourself.

 

There is nothing special about admitting you are gay in this day and age. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, mainstream society accepts gays. There will always be a fringe element that will hate someone. But you lumping the entire right wing into a fringe element is immature and ridiculous.

 

 

Yeah right. That's why it is going to take the SCOTUS to eliminate the DOMA (maybe), and it is such a big deal that an 11th state (Delaware) has recognized gay marriage.

 

I forget, how many states are there? I'm pretty sure there are more than 11.

post #93 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by phan52 View Post

 

 

Yeah right. That's why it is going to take the SCOTUS to eliminate the DOMA (maybe), and it is such a big deal that an 11th state (Delaware) has recognized gay marriage.

 

I forget, how many states are there? I'm pretty sure there are more than 11.


Well then why not marry children? Whose to say that a 17 year old is so much less advanced than an 18 year old. For that matter, a 21 year old vs an 18 year old. Its all arbitrary.

 

Homosexual marriage is legal in what states deem in legal, and that's that. Other states have more sense, and therefore continue traditional (shall I say, biological) marriage. Last time I checked, two men cannot make a child.

post #94 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by phan52 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

The Ten Commandments were handed down to Moses, an Israelite and a Jew, long before any prophet had the temerity to foresee the coming of Christ.  So in that pretext, the US was founded on Jewish values, not Christian.  The fact that many of the founding fathers had degrees in divinity was in part due to the fact that many schools of higher learning at the time had ties to some religious sect, with religious studies part of the required curriculum.

There should have been an 11th Commandment.

 

Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.

 

That commandment would certainly have made history a lot less bloody. 

post #95 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtsalmela80 View Post

 

Not a bad idea. As long as all the Christian hating, gay-promoting, suicide-bombing people keep to themselves.

 

Speaking of hate, you appear to be pretty much filled to the brim with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtsalmela80 View Post


Well then why not marry children? Whose to say that a 17 year old is so much less advanced than an 18 year old. For that matter, a 21 year old vs an 18 year old. Its all arbitrary.

 

Homosexual marriage is legal in what states deem in legal, and that's that. Other states have more sense, and therefore continue traditional (shall I say, biological) marriage. Last time I checked, two men cannot make a child.

 

I'm surprised you didn't go with the polygamy and/or beastiality argument, because that's certainly next, right?

 

And by your argument, two fifty-five year old heterosexuals should not be allowed to get married since they most probably have no intention of procreating, right? Isn't that the reason for "traditional" marriage?

post #96 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

That commandment would certainly have made history a lot less bloody. 

Google George Carlin and the ten commandments. Classic takedown.

post #97 of 201
The last word on this should be Ricky Gervais' : "Thank you God for making me an atheist."
post #98 of 201

Doesn't matter to me what someone does after they win.  I'm excited to see a boy who went to high school where my children will go, win on the PGA Tour.  It has made my children more excited about golf.  They went from 30% excited to about 31%.  Baby steps.

 

Go Clovis East Timberwolves!

post #99 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheners View Post

The Wisguy has nailed it. Ernst's public thanking of his Lord and Saviour cannot be defended on the basis that it his personal belief, and his critics can't be accused of poking their noses into matters that are none of their business. By ignoring Feherty's question, and instead publicising his (private ...)  beliefs, he clearly hoped to exploit the large audience and drag in more Godbotherers. Otherwise, he would give his thanks privately.

 

And let's not lose sight of the implication of any victor thanking his or her Lord and Saviour ie. that the deity preferred his / her interests to those of the vanquished. As deluded as it is arrogant!

 

Next time a victor does a Streelman or an Ernst, Feherty should reply "And what of [insert name of 2nd place getter] - has God got it in for him?"

 

Many Christians believe in expressing thanks for every good thing they experience in life - food, health, graduating, getting married, promoted on the job, etc... Some even are thankful in difficult situations, painful times, that they are not going through them alone. They believe that God is a personal being who is connected with each and every one of those who rely on him in the good times and the bad. The expression of gratitude is meant to be an expression of humility - the opposite of arrogance.

 

Many non-Christians hear a statement like this golfer made (and other sports and music celebrities at awards shows) and assume that what the person means is that God favored him above the others and that's the reason he won or succeeded. Shouldn't we be more tolerant of people with different beliefs than just jumping on them if they express beliefs that are just like ours? Isn't that tolerance?

 

I don't care one way or another, but I think it is a simple matter of preference.  Some people think they shouldn't have to listen to someone express anything religious. At the same time, I don't know if they take issue with others who use "freedom of speech" to express non-religious ideas or notions.

 

I wish people weren't whiners who complained about stuff they didn't like and act like the world owes them a stress-free existence. But, then again, I thank Zeus that we don't live in a world like that :)

post #100 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old1964 View Post

Many Christians believe in expressing thanks for every good thing they experience in life - food, health, graduating, getting married, promoted on the job, etc... Some even are thankful in difficult situations, painful times, that they are not going through them alone. They believe that God is a personal being who is connected with each and every one of those who rely on him in the good times and the bad. The expression of gratitude is meant to be an expression of humility - the opposite of arrogance.

 

 

 


If they feel that God is a personal being, then why not thank him in private instead of waiting until the cameras are rolling?  That is just about the most impersonal forum I can think of.  I doubt that He is watching the broadcast, so He should get the message just as clearly if the player waits until he has some privacy, or at least until he's with friends who understand his feelings and intentions.  I isn't his place to thrust his beliefs into my living room without my permission and against my wishes.  
post #101 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

 


If they feel that God is a personal being, then why not thank him in private instead of waiting until the cameras are rolling?  That is just about the most impersonal forum I can think of.  I doubt that He is watching the broadcast, so He should get the message just as clearly if the player waits until he has some privacy, or at least until he's with friends who understand his feelings and intentions.  I isn't his place to thrust his beliefs into my living room without my permission and against my wishes.  

 

Yep! Pretty sure that goes back to my comment about whiners.

Why do you think it is anyone's job to be the person you want them to be?

post #102 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukari View Post

There you go again making something that isn't there.  No where in my rebuttal did I say the current society's values are better or worse than yesteryears.

 

You even state LESS than 50% "held seminary or Bible school degrees."  You then make a quantum leap of conclusion that ergo, this country was founded on Christian values.  Your conclusion is not based on logic.

 

Just because some of the founding father's were Christians does not make Christian value the basis of this nation.  Even if all of them were Christians, you cannot make that conclusion.  Your conclusion is based on the assumption that the founding fathers founded this nation BECAUSE they were Christian.  This is not true.  They founded this nation because they were persecuted based on religion.  In order to be free to practice ANY religion, they made it clear that there is separation of church and state.

 

Some of the values you call "Christian values" can be found in Natural law (see Plato and Aristotle, etc.) as well as any other religions as other have said above.

 

What is missing in your argument is the nexus between the reason for establishment of this nation and the founding fathers.

 

 

1)  You keep bringing this up (the bolded part).  That was not the basis of my argument.  It was just included in all of the copied text.  I hold myself to be a Christian, and I certainly do not have a seminary or Bible degree.  I don't feel that line (the bolded part) proves a point either way.  I was merely trying to show that the founding fathers had Christian beliefs/values.  From my own personal experience, it is nearly impossible (if not impossible) to push aside or shun my beliefs/values at any point in my life.  They are always with me, whether I am at home or work.  Not saying I try to push them on people at work, or elsewhere.  (only golf forums a3_biggrin.gif, jk I just enjoy debate)

 

2) As far as your statement about me putting words in your mouth (about the state of todays society), I do apologize.  I assumed that would be your answer based on the tone of your conversation.  Please do answer these two questions though.

             1)  Do you believe there are less people following the Christian faith today than 50,100, 200 years ago?

             2)  Is this a good thing? 

Please answer yes or no.

post #103 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by phan52 View Post

There should have been an 11th Commandment.

Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.

Freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion.
post #104 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtsalmela80 View Post


Well then why not marry children? Whose to say that a 17 year old is so much less advanced than an 18 year old. For that matter, a 21 year old vs an 18 year old. Its all arbitrary.

 

Homosexual marriage is legal in what states deem in legal, and that's that. Other states have more sense, and therefore continue traditional (shall I say, biological) marriage. Last time I checked, two men cannot make a child.

No, but they can adopt one who was abandoned by a man and a women.  And that child can grow up in a loving family to be anything including straight and religious. 

 

Ernst has the right to say anything he wants.  I support this right fully. It is the phrase, "I would like to thank my personal savior Jesus Christ" that seems to put people off.  Seems a bit self centered.  

 

As for the Founding Fathers, they were rebelling against another country that was officially a Christian country.  This is why they chose to have freedom of religion documented so clearly in the Constitution.

post #105 of 201

I'm not particularly religious (more spiritual, closer to Buddhism if anything), but again this all seems like a case where people go out of their way to be upset about something.

 

To what end?

 

Why?

post #106 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old1964 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

 


If they feel that God is a personal being, then why not thank him in private instead of waiting until the cameras are rolling?  That is just about the most impersonal forum I can think of.  I doubt that He is watching the broadcast, so He should get the message just as clearly if the player waits until he has some privacy, or at least until he's with friends who understand his feelings and intentions.  I isn't his place to thrust his beliefs into my living room without my permission and against my wishes.  

 

Yep! Pretty sure that goes back to my comment about whiners.

Why do you think it is anyone's job to be the person you want them to be?

 

He can be any person he want to be, just not in my face. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetsknicks1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phan52 View Post

There should have been an 11th Commandment.

Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.

Freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion.

 

Of course it does.  Freedom of religion means the right to be free of any religion, just as it means the right to worship as you please as long as you don't push your beliefs (or lack thereof) on anyone else.  Why would you think that it means anything else?

post #107 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtsalmela80 View Post


Well then why not marry children? Whose to say that a 17 year old is so much less advanced than an 18 year old. For that matter, a 21 year old vs an 18 year old. Its all arbitrary.

 

Homosexual marriage is legal in what states deem in legal, and that's that. Other states have more sense, and therefore continue traditional (shall I say, biological) marriage. Last time I checked, two men cannot make a child.


Does it just annoy you? That your 'nation founded on Christian values' is finally departing such nonsense and allowing two people in love to get married?

 

 

No, two men can not make a child, but can't two gay men adopt a child? Maybe one that was given up for adoption by a non gay woman and her husband who didn't want the kid? Who were married 'traditionally'?

post #108 of 201
Your questions are irrelevant to your premise which is this country was founded on Christian values. If you read all my rebuttals carefully, that is the only issue I addressed.

You are completely ignoring the issue you yourself brought up.
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