Originally Posted by iacas
I'm still waiting for the actual "data" that shows anything. A draw is hit with a face that's rotated LESS through impact. If anything, there's less "release" of the club with a draw than a fade. I understand what you think you're saying about the arms coming off the body or working in a different direction than the hips (though they are in a fade too), but so what? That's just letting your arms swing off your chest, which faders will often do early in the downswing, while drawers do it later in the downswing.
I still say the answer is the one I gave well above: draws TEND to be hit with lower spin loft, and the way many people TEND to hit draws leads to less consistent and "touchier" impact alignments than how people TEND to hit fades.
Upright clubs would promote a ball that starts a bit farther left. I seriously doubt that "most players hit draws" - the slice is still BY FAR the predominant shot shape among "most players."
You can check out the trackman data anytime...just visit thier website. It's been proven that the way we understand a fade/draw has changed. Your discussion of spin is very accurate, but I have experimented with the feel of both and know for a fact that your hands play a far more critical role that either of us discussed. Either way, we are saying very similar things...and I doubt arguing over semantics is worth it at this point.
HOWEVER, I recently did some research on club manufacturing specs. Over the past 4 years...clubs have become more upright and turned down. Take a look at the rocketbladz specs and my case is made. Although an upright club promotes a shot starting left, it also forces your hands to become more upright at impact if you plan to hit it straight...there are only two ways to accomplish this, and they both lead to swing planes that resemble a "traditional" draw/hook.
No other need to argue...the specs speak for themselves. I've had to flatten every club I've bought this year to 2005 "standard" lie angles (which by the way took a lot of searching to find). They were right off the rack, Mizuno MP-59's... explain that?