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A cure for slow play - Page 4

post #55 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post

 

Actually, your analogy is true.  - like the other comment.  But not a fail - it's a logical win.

 

 

 

what's odd is that it's clear that his post was a humorous post but people seem to take it seriously.....

 

No it's not.  There is a reason why there are speed limits, and there is a reason why there are slow play policies.  His logic is, "if you stop complaining, (or get rid of the complainers) the problem is solved."  Actually, it's not solved.  The problem itself would persist, and likely even greater.

 

And I'm betting that his entire post was not humorous.  The bit about getting rid of the complainers was tongue-in-cheek, I'm sure, but his posting history in this thread and in that post suggests he believes slow play is not a real issue, and that the perception of slow play among the faster players is the problem.

post #56 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingWhacker View Post

 

It's fine if you don't choose to use a maximum score - although I am not sure what the rule is if you're posting handicap rounds . .it seems like it's required.  My point is, if you're shooting 110 . it doesn't really matter if you're shooting 110, 120, 130, etc.  You're playing some stinky golf - that's enough detail.  If you really feel like grinding out that 130, then I don't mind as long as you do it within 4 hours.

 

I didn't say the max score for a good golfer is double bogey . .that's what the USGA says.  They have a chart on thier site for ESC and a 0-9 handicapper's ESC is double bogey. 

 

As for your logic on how to fix slow play, I guess that could be applied to almost anything and solve all the world's problems.  If people would just stop complaining about pollution, for example, then we could keep dumping stuff in the river and everything would be fine.  right?

 

 

Umm, when i was shooting 120's, way back in the day. breaking 110 legit was a great moment, breaking 100 legit was a great moment, breaking 90 legit was a moment for me. So to say that because someone plays bad that they should just pick up for a max score on the hole is wrong. What if they picked up a quadruple bogey, they had a 20' putt left for a +5. Yet they end up shooting a 109. Tell me that doesn't sit well that they know they didn't put that ball in the cup, and they maybe hit there milestone. I think that is a horrible thing to do. I rather shoot that 111 or 110, than end up hitting my goal and knowing i didn't finish a hole.

 

The USGA are idiots, if they want to claim the protect the integrity of golf, yet they allow golfers not to finish out the hole. Ya, that works.

 

The problem with pollution analogy is, pollution hurts, and even leads to death. Slow play on golf doesn't. I get what your trying to do, but to actually label it to something serious like pollution is a stupid way to do it. I'm not going to just sit here all dumb founded and go, "Yea your right". Nice try :p World isn't black and white like that.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

 

Correct.  And if cops stopped complaining about how fast I drive, I'd stop getting speeding tickets.  

 

The logic of his post fails.

 

Actually this one works. If cops stopped complaining, and stopped pulling people over then speeding would not exist. If laws are there and are not enforced then the laws are useless and invalid. But his analogy on pollution is idiotic because when you cause pollution you put actual substance in the air that does not leave. Slow play is a perception, or in better terms an illusion created by the mind based on your own feelings on the matter. Pollution is not, that is why his analogy fails, because one thing exists in reality, the other exists in our minds which isn't really real if we choose not to be bothered by slow play. We can not choose not to be bothered by pollution.

post #57 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

 

No it's not.  There is a reason why there are speed limits, and there is a reason why there are slow play policies.  His logic is, "if you stop complaining, (or get rid of the complainers) the problem is solved."  Actually, it's not solved.  The problem itself would persist, and likely even greater.

 

And I'm betting that his entire post was not humorous.  The bit about getting rid of the complainers was tongue-in-cheek, I'm sure, but his posting history in this thread and in that post suggests he believes slow play is not a real issue, and that the perception of slow play among the faster players is the problem.

 

Nicely put. The poster also said something about deciding that 4 hours is a long round. You don't decide whether something feels fast or slow. That's innate and varies with everyone.

post #58 of 135

What I'd really like to know concerning pace of play is if it's published why someone would intentionally ignore it. I assume they don't randomly choose a time. The course management knows how long it should take to play and they have likely put some cushion in there to accommodate golfers of all abilities. If someone falls behind and there is some space to catch up how hard would it be to just step on it for one hole and make it up.

 

Sometimes it's just silly. I play courses with POP clocks, rangers, gps carts that bark at you if you're out of position. With all that going on how does someone playing the course allow it to happen? A couple minutes here and there no big deal but why would someone want to be the very slow person. It's akin to talking at the movie theater. Just because you can do it why would you?

post #59 of 135

I just returned from playing 18 by myself using a cart. The course is 5437 from the middle tees. I shot a 105 (I know I suck but that's not important right now). It took me 2 hours, 45 minutes from the time I was in the clubhouse paying for my cart to when I got back to my truck and unloaded my clubs.

 

I don't know if that's a fast pace or average for one person. But I don't think I've ever played 18 in that short of a period of time. No one was ahead of or behind me and I purposely tried to play quickly.

 

Still, I stayed within the rules to the best of my knowledge and didn't have to use an ESC. I fixed divots, balls marks, removed the flag when putting, etc.. If I suspected a lost ball, I immediately shot a provisional and I didn't spend all evening looking in the woods (those damn penalty strokes kill my score). As is usually the case, I walked very fast (often ran) from the green to the cart after finishing a hole.

 

I'm not posting this to brag or make a point. Just wanted to share. I had an interesting conversation with the owner of the course. I told him I used to get kind of pissed at him for not letting me walk the course on the weekends. But after reading other's opinions, I now understand why he has that policy.

post #60 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonMA1 View Post

I just returned from playing 18 by myself using a cart. The course is 5437 from the middle tees. I shot a 105 (I know I suck but that's not important right now). It took me 2 hours, 45 minutes from the time I was in the clubhouse paying for my cart to when I got back to my truck and unloaded my clubs.


I don't know if that's a fast pace or average for one person. But I don't think I've ever played 18 in that short of a period of time. No one was ahead of or behind me and I purposely tried to play quickly.

Still, I stayed within the rules to the best of my knowledge and didn't have to use an ESC. I fixed divots, balls marks, removed the flag when putting, etc.. If I suspected a lost ball, I immediately shot a provisional and I didn't spend all evening looking in the woods (those damn penalty strokes kill my score). As is usually the case, I walked very fast (often ran) from the green to the cart after finishing a hole.

I'm not posting this to brag or make a point. Just wanted to share. I had an interesting conversation with the owner of the course. I told him I used to get kind of pissed at him for not letting me walk the course on the weekends. But after reading other's opinions, I now understand why he has that policy.

Good on ya.....

You can play with my group any day! a1_smile.gif
post #61 of 135
Quote:

Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

 

The problem with pollution analogy is, pollution hurts, and even leads to death. Slow play on golf doesn't. I get what your trying to do, but to actually label it to something serious like pollution is a stupid way to do it. I'm not going to just sit here all dumb founded and go, "Yea your right". Nice try :p World isn't black and white like that.

 

Slow play does hurt.  It costs golf courses money by reducing the number of rounds that can be played in a day, for one thing.  For another, it reduces the enjoyment of many golfers - leading them to play less golf, avoid the course during peak times, etc.  Time is worth something, as well.  If a slow group extends my round by 1 hour, then that is 1 hour I have lost without compensation.  It means that some work or family obligation will be neglected.  In a sense, a slow player is "stealing" time from everybody else on the course.   

post #62 of 135

Slow play begins with the courses.  They either choose to ignore it or enforce it. 

 

If courses take it serious it's pretty easy to fix.  I couldn't tee off at my club last weekend until after 630 because their was a junior tournament(Plantation Tour) over the weekend.  I played the back and when I got to #13 I noticed a sign on the tee box saying how much time should have elapsed since your tee time......I thought it was awesome.  Juniors are being shown pace of play requirements. 

 

When I tee off on a normal day I have to present my receipt to the starter(even as members we have to check in and get a receipt).  My receipt has my tee time on it.  Why not have another ranger on #5.  He would check your tee time receipt to the posted pace of play and make certain you are in compliance.  If not you get a warning.  At the turn you are checked again.  If still behind you get the boot.  Make all players aware at the pro shop that they are subject to ejection without refund if they don't adhere to pace of play. 

 

Courses can help pace of play by keeping the rough mown to a manageable length so people aren't searching for balls in the rough.  I know that when my course hosts certain tournaments they let the rough grow in a bit.  Play is much slower during that time because people are searching for balls that you can literally drive over without seeing.

 

I also know that my course has it posted on the scorecard what the recommended tees are for your ability.  Black tees are scratch.  Blues 1-5 HC, White 6-10, Gold 10-18, Silver 18plus.

 

I would LOVE to see a guy step up to the Black or Blues and have a ranger ask to see his handicap card.  Sorry son, go hit from the silvers.  People need to have a realistic idea of how long and hard the course they play is.  I promise you that the whites on my course are nothing like the whites on most courses.  If you are used to playing a 6000yrd 68/115 white tee, don't try the whites at 6500 73/140.  Those tees will play an easy 5-6 strokes harder.  If you bomb it 300yrd every time but playing from neighbor fairways....you better look around here......because there is nothing but heather and lots of lost balls between holes.

 

Tee times.....my course does it in 10 minute blocks.  I've seen others do it in 7-8 minutes.  7-8 minutes are always backed up.  The 10s not so much.  Still might take same amount of time to play a round but you don't FEEL like you've waited on 10 minute tee times.

 

The USGA could help this issue too.  I'm all about the true rules of golf, but if someone is really playing to post a handicap, stroke and distance is a time killer on a lost ball for lots of links style courses.  Watch a guy go look for his ball in tall grass only to realize that by the rules he needs to back to the tee, that's already backed up and hit another ball.  Talk about time killer.  Yes, most should hit provisional but lots don't.  Why pull pins on the green? 

 

Players.....Ready golf.  Easy damn concept.  Walk 30 yards to your ball from the cart while your buddy is hitting.  I can't count the times I see a guy sitting in his cart while his buddy hits.  They then drive 30yrds sideways to get to his ball.   WTF??   I was behind a 3 some walking the other day.  They were all standing at their respective balls with their bags watching one guy do his routine and hit.  Then they begin their club selection, routine and hit.   Why would you not do that while he's hitting?

 

It takes everyone taking pace of play serious to make it better.  I think most is out of pure ignorance of having not been taught course management and pace of play etiquette. It is hard to fault some groups that simply don't know better.  What bugs me is the groups that know better but simply don't care because they are so self absorbed while trying to break 90 while refusing to spend any time on the putting/chipping greens.  They bomb drivers at the range and that is the extent of their practice yet they want to imitate the pros on the course. 

post #63 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingWhacker View Post

 

Slow play does hurt.  It costs golf courses money by reducing the number of rounds that can be played in a day, for one thing.  For another, it reduces the enjoyment of many golfers - leading them to play less golf, avoid the course during peak times, etc.  Time is worth something, as well.  If a slow group extends my round by 1 hour, then that is 1 hour I have lost without compensation.  It means that some work or family obligation will be neglected.  In a sense, a slow player is "stealing" time from everybody else on the course.   

 

The problem is still, that is your perception, not reality. What someone likes or doesn't like is an illusion of perception create by the mind of that person. Pollution is not. I will say it does reduce the number of rounds played, but in terms of enjoyment, that is an individual problem, not an actual problem.

 

What do you want compensated? You pay to play golf, not get paid to play golf. This is were your created a misconception for yourself, and an unmeetable obligation on other people, in reality you are being selfish because you think 4 hours is this some gold standard that a round should never go over. If you are planning something close to that 4 hour mark, that's just stupid.

 

Once again steeling time is an illusion, a selfish obligation your putting on other people by a standard you think should be met. When i go to the course, and end up playing a 5 hour round, i don't think someone is stealing time from me, so please don't say, "Everyone", because that's not true. That is your perception, or how you feel, which is just you thinking that way.

 

By your logic, you would be pissed off if a baseball game went into extra innings. By your logic you would require they get the 9 innings done in under 3 hours. If not, call the game.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintcreek6412 View Post

When I tee off on a normal day I have to present my receipt to the starter(even as members we have to check in and get a receipt).  My receipt has my tee time on it.  Why not have another ranger on #5.  He would check your tee time receipt to the posted pace of play and make certain you are in compliance.  If not you get a warning.  At the turn you are checked again.  If still behind you get the boot.  Make all players aware at the pro shop that they are subject to ejection without refund if they don't adhere to pace of play. 

 

Courses can help pace of play by keeping the rough mown to a manageable length so people aren't searching for balls in the rough.  I know that when my course hosts certain tournaments they let the rough grow in a bit.  Play is much slower during that time because people are searching for balls that you can literally drive over without seeing.

 

I also know that my course has it posted on the scorecard what the recommended tees are for your ability.  Black tees are scratch.  Blues 1-5 HC, White 6-10, Gold 10-18, Silver 18plus.

 

I would LOVE to see a guy step up to the Black or Blues and have a ranger ask to see his handicap card.  Sorry son, go hit from the silvers.  People need to have a realistic idea of how long and hard the course they play is.  I promise you that the whites on my course are nothing like the whites on most courses.  If you are used to playing a 6000yrd 68/115 white tee, don't try the whites at 6500 73/140.  Those tees will play an easy 5-6 strokes harder.  If you bomb it 300yrd every time but playing from neighbor fairways....you better look around here......because there is nothing but heather and lots of lost balls between holes.

 

Tee times.....my course does it in 10 minute blocks.  I've seen others do it in 7-8 minutes.  7-8 minutes are always backed up.  The 10s not so much.  Still might take same amount of time to play a round but you don't FEEL like you've waited on 10 minute tee times.

 

The USGA could help this issue too.  I'm all about the true rules of golf, but if someone is really playing to post a handicap, stroke and distance is a time killer on a lost ball for lots of links style courses.  Watch a guy go look for his ball in tall grass only to realize that by the rules he needs to back to the tee, that's already backed up and hit another ball.  Talk about time killer.  Yes, most should hit provisional but lots don't.  Why pull pins on the green? 

 

Players.....Ready golf.  Easy damn concept.  Walk 30 yards to your ball from the cart while your buddy is hitting.  I can't count the times I see a guy sitting in his cart while his buddy hits.  They then drive 30yrds sideways to get to his ball.   WTF??   I was behind a 3 some walking the other day.  They were all standing at their respective balls with their bags watching one guy do his routine and hit.  Then they begin their club selection, routine and hit.   Why would you not do that while he's hitting?

 

It takes everyone taking pace of play serious to make it better.  I think most is out of pure ignorance of having not been taught course management and pace of play etiquette. It is hard to fault some groups that simply don't know better.  What bugs me is the groups that know better but simply don't care because they are so self absorbed while trying to break 90 while refusing to spend any time on the putting/chipping greens.  They bomb drivers at the range and that is the extent of their practice yet they want to imitate the pros on the course. 

 

Once again, do you create a rule that is hardlined or bendable? Would you boot someone who was just 5 minutes over? 30 minutes? What's the cutoff. What if that person just had a bad 9th hole. What if there are two par 3's with in the first 5 holes, par 3's will back a course up. This course i play, holes 11 and 12 are par 3's. You will see groups backed up on those holes, maybe 2-3 groups lined up waiting. These two par 3's are tough. The reason par 3 take long is because you must wait till they clear the green. So do you tear into these guys? Would ever ranger know this? You say you must create this boot rule, and say it as something absolute, yet you don't even know what goes into the totality of pace of play. What if the first group was really slow, lets say 45 minutes behind. Do you throw out ever subsequent group behind them, clearing the course, because now all the groups are 45 minutes behind. I mean your only checking the tee times and matching expected pace? Cause once you start not kicking people off, realizing its not there fault, you will start pissing off AmazingWhacker who might be in a group behind the lead group.

 

Ready golf would fix 90% of slow play. Besides playing bad golf, this is what causes most delay.

post #64 of 135

To fix slow play

 

1. prepare for your next shot as much as possible before its your turn to hit.

2. When it is your turn..keep whatever you have left to 30 seconds or less, including hitting the ball

3. Do not tell stories between every stroke you make

4. If you have a 1 footer for a quad bogey, just pick the ball up. 

5. On the green, read your putt while someone else is putting but make sure you give them respect by not moving a bunch or talking

6. Even on the green, play ready golf.  If someone else is unsure of a putt and you're sure..go ahead and play your ball while they decide.

7. If someone has just chipped on the green but still "away"..go ahead and play your next shot while they prepare to putt.  You should have already been studying your own next stroke.

 

8. Realize when its time to bite the bullet, grab your favorite club, and advance the ball more than 30 yards.  We are not heroes.

9.If you're sharing a cart...drive to one ball and either drop off the player at his ball, and drive to the next one immediately.  Its much faster to pick everyone back up than it is to play one ball, drive to the next, then play that ball. As long as you are not in another players line of play, you're good to go.

post #65 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonMA1 View Post

I just returned from playing 18 by myself using a cart. The course is 5437 from the middle tees. I shot a 105 (I know I suck but that's not important right now). It took me 2 hours, 45 minutes from the time I was in the clubhouse paying for my cart to when I got back to my truck and unloaded my clubs.

 

I don't know if that's a fast pace or average for one person. But I don't think I've ever played 18 in that short of a period of time. No one was ahead of or behind me and I purposely tried to play quickly.

 

Still, I stayed within the rules to the best of my knowledge and didn't have to use an ESC. I fixed divots, balls marks, removed the flag when putting, etc.. If I suspected a lost ball, I immediately shot a provisional and I didn't spend all evening looking in the woods (those damn penalty strokes kill my score). As is usually the case, I walked very fast (often ran) from the green to the cart after finishing a hole.

 

I'm not posting this to brag or make a point. Just wanted to share. I had an interesting conversation with the owner of the course. I told him I used to get kind of pissed at him for not letting me walk the course on the weekends. But after reading other's opinions, I now understand why he has that policy.

Golfers can be fast on their own, especially if the course is open in front of you all you need to do is hit the ball, drive up to it, hit it again. 

 

Add 2-3 more golfers with you of equal skill.  First pair hit their drives in the woods on opposite sides of fairway.  Next pair hit the fairway but one hits their drive 250 yards, the other hit it 180.  Guys out of the woods chunk their shots or punch out to fairway, they are now hitting 3 and still have 250 yards to the hole.  The guy hitting his drive 250 on the fairway has to wait for his partner to hit or risk getting hit with the ball from an errant shot.  Throw in a few bunker shots, skulled chips, and you've got 4 guys chasing their balls all over the course.  Repeat this 18 times and let me know how long your round takes.

 

People may not realize it but this is more likely the typical golf experience, not 4 guys striping their drives in the middle of the fairway with all their shots within 20 yards of one another. 

post #66 of 135

Some very interesting conversation on Golf Channel this morning about pace of play. Much of it being put on the courses, tee time intervals, course setup, length of rough, pin placements etc. One guy mentioned the entitlement factor, especially as it relates to courses with high fees. The response was why does golf need to be slow to enjoy it more.

 

Funny thing was it came up in small talk with the guys at the liquor store I frequent. They invited me to play last weekend but I declined due to the early tee time. I asked how it was because it was a course I've never played and it was their first time. They were the first time of the day and the course has gps carts. They were paired with two strangers that evidently struggled to keep up, lack of skill on a difficult course being the issue. He said their carts were going nuts telling them they were behind pace. Because they attempted to keep pace it forced the other two to scurry along and if what they say is true they weren't happy about it.

post #67 of 135

COURSE HANDICAP

MAXIMUM NUMBER ON ANY HOLE
9 or less Double Bogey
10 through 19 7
20 through 29 8
30 through 39 9
40 or more 10

Here is how ESC works for those wondering. If more people use it, it would probably help pace of play.

post #68 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

Golfers can be fast on their own, especially if the course is open in front of you all you need to do is hit the ball, drive up to it, hit it again. 

 

Add 2-3 more golfers with you of equal skill.  First pair hit their drives in the woods on opposite sides of fairway.  Next pair hit the fairway but one hits their drive 250 yards, the other hit it 180.  Guys out of the woods chunk their shots or punch out to fairway, they are now hitting 3 and still have 250 yards to the hole.  The guy hitting his drive 250 on the fairway has to wait for his partner to hit or risk getting hit with the ball from an errant shot.  Throw in a few bunker shots, skulled chips, and you've got 4 guys chasing their balls all over the course.  Repeat this 18 times and let me know how long your round takes.

 

People may not realize it but this is more likely the typical golf experience, not 4 guys striping their drives in the middle of the fairway with all their shots within 20 yards of one another. 

You're absolutely correct, more players equal a much slower pace and the examples you've stated are feasible if not typical. But there is a best way in which multiple players can manage the cluster#%^ you've described. Just because we're bad at striking a golf ball doesn't mean we have to be too stupid to recognize a way to make the best of it. Like it or not, crappy players hit more errant shots which take time to recover - that's reality. Other than segregating better players from poorer ones, there's going to be waiting. 

 

I just believe that if the effort is put forth along with using common sense as suggested in other posts, the waiting can be minimized?

 

I wasn't really trying to make a point by posting my time, but it shows that we (poorer players) can play at a fast pace. Understand that many of the 18 holes I played yesterday involved what turned out to be unnecessary provisional shots. Hitting those shots and collecting the balls ate up some time. On one hole, I played the provisional but decided to go back one more time to look for my original ball, found it and played/scored that ball instead (don't know what the rule is, but it turned out to be the same # of strokes). So even with the high score I posted, it should have been much faster.

 

I can't imagine playing with three other people of my skill level on a crowded course. I don't know how enjoyable it would be given what I've learned from this thread. But I know that when my son (who is only slightly better than me) and I play, we rarely run into problems. We both play conservatively (accuracy over distance), are logical about how we split up when hitting our second or third shots. And yes, we let faster player play through. 

post #69 of 135

I don't have a solution for normal individual golf play, but I'm starting to see positive signs in scrambles.

 

In four-ball scrambles, I'm starting to see ways people speed up play. If the hole is a tight par 5, and the second player booms one 270 yds. down the middle, No. 3 and No. 4 may just skip their tee shots if they likely can't best it.

 

As a shorter hitter, on long par 4s I will sometimes lay up to a flat spot in front of the green, or on par 5s to a spot about 100 yards out. That way, the longer hitters can relax and shoot for the green, but if they all go snake eyes, we still get a good shot at cleanup.

 

The two-putt limit on a hole also helps keep things moving.

post #70 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonMA1 View Post

You're absolutely correct, more players equal a much slower pace and the examples you've stated are feasible if not typical. But there is a best way in which multiple players can manage the cluster#%^ you've described. Just because we're bad at striking a golf ball doesn't mean we have to be too stupid to recognize a way to make the best of it. Like it or not, crappy players hit more errant shots which take time to recover - that's reality. Other than segregating better players from poorer ones, there's going to be waiting. 

 

I just believe that if the effort is put forth along with using common sense as suggested in other posts, the waiting can be minimized?

 

I wasn't really trying to make a point by posting my time, but it shows that we (poorer players) can play at a fast pace. Understand that many of the 18 holes I played yesterday involved what turned out to be unnecessary provisional shots. Hitting those shots and collecting the balls ate up some time. On one hole, I played the provisional but decided to go back one more time to look for my original ball, found it and played/scored that ball instead (don't know what the rule is, but it turned out to be the same # of strokes). So even with the high score I posted, it should have been much faster.

 

I can't imagine playing with three other people of my skill level on a crowded course. I don't know how enjoyable it would be given what I've learned from this thread. But I know that when my son (who is only slightly better than me) and I play, we rarely run into problems. We both play conservatively (accuracy over distance), are logical about how we split up when hitting our second or third shots. And yes, we let faster player play through. 

I agree with you, but there's a portion of the "fast players" out there that refuse to recognize that 4 average to poor golfers could be doing everything they're supposed to improve pace of play but still end up taking 4 - 5 hours to finish a round depending on the course layout.   

post #71 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

I agree with you, but there's a portion of the "fast players" out there that refuse to recognize that 4 average to poor golfers could be doing everything they're supposed to improve pace of play but still end up taking 4 - 5 hours to finish a round depending on the course layout.   

I think it's easy to see the difference. If I get behind someone that's slow and zig-zagging around the course it's usually due to their poor management choices as much as the quality of their golf. For lack of a better word I'll call it ignorance, some people just don't understand course management. That said I think a lot of it could be prevented by playing the appropriate tees. It's usually younger guys flailing away at the ball and getting into areas of trouble. The people struggling with a bad round that are being considerate of those behind them are usually moving along just fine. It's usually not a constant succession of bad shots unless someone is attempting to play the course from a distance greater than their abilities. Mostly because they lack accuracy.

post #72 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post

I think it's easy to see the difference. If I get behind someone that's slow and zig-zagging around the course it's usually due to their poor management choices as much as the quality of their golf. For lack of a better word I'll call it ignorance, some people just don't understand course management. That said I think a lot of it could be prevented by playing the appropriate tees. It's usually younger guys flailing away at the ball and getting into areas of trouble. The people struggling with a bad round that are being considerate of those behind them are usually moving along just fine. It's usually not a constant succession of bad shots unless someone is attempting to play the course from a distance greater than their abilities. Mostly because they lack accuracy.

It is easy to see the distance, but are the fast golfers going to be any happier with their round taking 5 hours if they are behind a course full of poor to average golfers that are playing ready golf and doing the other things to improve pace of play. 

 

As for the right tee boxes I'm 100% in agreement with you, but I don't know any males that will voluntarily play from the ladies or senior tees, which means the courses have to educate and/or enforce the behavior. 

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