or Connect
TheSandTrap.com › Golf Forum › The Practice Range › Swing Thoughts › The Virtue of Being a Stupid Monkey (and How it can Help Your Golf Game)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Virtue of Being a Stupid Monkey (and How it can Help Your Golf Game) - Page 6

post #91 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelzzy View Post
 

Why is it that what you know is correct, but what the actual pros say isn't? I mean, really. Where are you coming from? I'm going to go with something Tiger Woods says rather than some average Joe. I don't agree with Phil, but that's his personal way. Tiger is the best in the world, anybody who doesn't agree with his swing and ideas is a fool. 

 

From the swings that Tiger used under Haney and currently uses under Foley, Tiger disagrees with himself.  His ideal position when he wrote the book is very different than the Haney and Foley swings.  

 

Regarding the right knee, it staying at the same flex is a myth

 Myth of Maintaining Address Flexion in the Rear Knee 

 

 

 

 

Regarding the ball flight laws, they aren't my opinion just the way it is, ball primarily starts where the face is aimed and curves away from the path, Jack said the opposite.

post #92 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post
 

 

From the swings that Tiger used under Haney and currently uses under Foley, Tiger disagrees with himself.  His ideal position when he wrote the book is very different than the Haney and Foley swings.  

 

Regarding the right knee, it staying at the same flex is a myth

 Myth of Maintaining Address Flexion in the Rear Knee 

 

 

 

 

Regarding the ball flight laws, they aren't my opinion just the way it is, ball primarily starts where the face is aimed and curves away from the path, Jack said the opposite.

His wrists in that picture looks exactly how he wrote in the book. Also, yeah of course the knee flex is going to be different. But I think if you used some sense you would realize by Tiger saying to keep the same flex, he means it's the idea. We all know it's impossible to maintain the same flex... but if you try to you will get close. 

post #93 of 132

I totally buy into what Erik says about how to practice, and in my own time learning this game I never bothered learning the whole nuts and bolts/ cause and effect terminology in great bunches at a time and I think that allowed things to be understood in a more clear picture over time, I see so many high cappers that know so much techno crap about this game and the equipment that I just smile when they talk to me and then go hit the ball. Some people just can't deal with not knowing and have to get to the bottom of it all in order to master this game it seems while in reality less is more.

post #94 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 
If you spend any time with a PGA Tour player, particularly one who is working on his game, you'll start to realize something very quickly. These guys are good. Spend a little more time with the player, though, and you'll realize something else. These guys are stupid.
 
I mean that in a good way (well, mostly :D). I'll put it another way: "these guys are monkeys." What do I mean by that, and why am I calling every PGA Tour player a stupid monkey? It's simple: PGA Tour players are both incapable of high level thought when it comes to their golf swings and their games can suffer the times they delve too far into the mechanics, reasons, physics, etc.
 
PGA Tour players function best when they're told "do this little thing and you'll play better golf" and they try to do it. They're often incredibly good at doing that thing. They don't overthink things. They're just the trained monkey.
 
I'd go so far as to say that the average member of this site knows more about the golf swing than the average PGA Tour player. The purpose of this post is to stress to you that it's to your detriment as golfers.
 
PGA Tour players don't need to know the "why" - they simply want to know the what. "What do you want me to do, coach?" "What do I do when I'm hooking the ball, coach?" "What do I do to hit the ball lower, coach?"
 
We have members on this site who read everything they can get their hands on about the golf swing. They over-educate. They over-stimulate. They can list the 17 things wrong with their golf swings and give you the detailed reasoning behind them, often with an accompanying list of drills and feels for each of them.
 
That's to their detriment as golfers.
 
As a golf instructor I keep learning, and feel I have a vast knowledge of the what, why, how, when, etc. of the golf swing. All of that helps me to do one thing very well: prioritize. In prioritizing, I distill an ocean of knowledge into the one thing that will help the student most at that time.
 
In the past, I've made the mistake of succumbing to the guy who wants to ask ten or twenty questions, none of which are particularly relevant, because I was excited to talk about the golf swing with a fellow golfer. I learned my lesson there - those lessons were not as good as the ones I've given since. Golfers will remember only a few things from their lessons, and it's my job to make sure the only things they hear are the things they need to DO in their golf swings, and just as importantly, that the things they know they need to do are the top priority items.
 
We've taken to doing this ourselves in our own golf swings. It's really easy to fall into the same trap when you're an instructor working on your own game. "I'm good, I can think of these three things" we will say to ourselves. No, we can't. It's to our detriment to think that we can. Even as golf instructors, we improve our own swings the most when we are stupid monkeys. We do our best when we focus on one simple thing. No, we can't turn off knowing the "why," but focusing on the "what" provides clarity.
 
We see a lot of success teaching people through evolvr for the same reasons - we treat students like stupid monkeys. a3_biggrin.gif Why? Because it is what works best. An evolvr lesson focuses on the one or two top priority pieces. We'll briefly explain the "why?" by way of saying "it'll improve Key #2" or "it's causing the club to tip out here and resulting in pulls and cuts" but we don't go into depth. The important piece of any lesson is the WHAT.
 
More golfers practicing on their own would improve much more quickly if they could focus on a single "what" and ignore the why. Be stupid. Be a monkey. Your golf game will be better off for it.

Wow. You have no idea how glad I am to have read this. Let me explain why!

 

1 - The main reason I personally feel that I never gained from lessons is that the instructor was way too technical for me. He was actually always stressing the "WHY" and I would keep asking him the "WHAT" questions "Can you just tell me WHAT to do with my wrists then?"..."Can you just tell me WHAT to do to get my weight over to the left side?" (and countless others)...When I would ask him the "WHAT" questions, honest to God he would just give me this blank stare...like I was stupid for not being able to come up with "WHAT" to do based on his "WHY" explanations. Frustrating.

 

2 - I absolutely love this game we play. However, I am not a Golf Nerd. Now, I do not mean that in the sense of not being obsessed with the game (because I pretty much am obsessed with it), but I am not a Golf Nerd in the sense of studying or even having the desire to study the swing and all its nuances. If that is fun for ya, more power to you. Obviously, if your career is a teaching pro or instructor then im sure you knowing the swing, mechanics, physics, etc. can only help you do your job better and I think that is awesome. But for me, I just want to play better which I feel will in turn give me more out of the game. I just want an instructor to look at my swing (in person, on video, whatever) and say "Work on doing this and this and this" (3-4 things max and please make them clear lol).

 

3 - Blends in with my reason #2 but...although my handicap is not good - I have the confidence that I can be low handicap player based on athleticism and short streaks of good playing. The problem is when I get into good streaks, I never know what im doing different than when im on bad streaks. I can explain the feel of the strike,  the sound the ball makes, the flight of the ball, trajectory etc. but I can not for the life of me know WHAT I am doing differently with my swing that allows me to play well sometimes. In reality I will have better luck rebuilding my swing because its not like an instructor can see my swing every single time I play and point out what im doing different on day A vs day B. 

 

4 - Last but not least...often when im feeling down about my game I come on sites like this, watch youtube videos, etc etc to get pointers and end up feeling more down because there is all this "intelligent sounding" golf swing talk that leaves me completely lost and feeling like...wow, if I dont understand all this they are saying its no wonder I am not good. I have learned to get over that feeling once I started coming across posts of players (not just on this forum) with higher handicaps than me but who can explain the golf swing a million times better than me. Long story short, glad to hear that a PGA tour player may very well have less knowledge of the golf swing than some mid-high handicapper surfing the net ;)

post #95 of 132

I love the concept of the stupid monkey!  My theory to my golf game, is:  What simple swing thought do I need to get me to perform the proper swing. 

 

My swing thought could be as simple as "Squash the grape"   -picturing a grape in the crease of the outside of my left foot and the ground....  If it gets me to transfer my weight properly, that's all that matters..  What do I need to do or think to get me to swing proper and have a consistent, repeatable swing?

post #96 of 132

I really needed to read about being a stupid monkey. I'll be the first to admit that one of my biggest problems is over-analyzing everything I'm doing in my golf swing. I do a drill for a little bit, but if it doesn't start giving me results in my full swing right away, I'm on to the next drill and/or switch teachers...(Bad monkey, bad monkey!) I think this has lead to multiple problems and has impeded my progress. 

 

I, scopek, hereby pledge to become a Stupid Monkey! 

post #97 of 132

Good post.  My son's coach made a promise to never give more than one new "thought" per lesson and often it was a rehashing of the same thought from the previous lesson if it looked like thought #1 wasn't sticking.  

 

He would explain what he wanted, then why he wanted it, then what again and stick with the 'what' from then on.  He was a very effective teacher.  

 

Personally I find over-thinking the putting stroke is a major problem for golfers of all skill levels.  It is literally the easiest part of the game from a mechanical standpoint.  Think about how much has to go right to hit a drive in the fairway as opposed to a 4 foot putt.  A 5 year old can putt a ball into a hole that's 4 feet away... yet it is the hardest part of the game for so many incredibly talented golfers.  Look at all of the funky grips and handles and putter styles etc.  I've replaced more putters than any other club.  Putt great with them when I first get them and then one bad day and I start "thinking" about the "why" instead of just hitting the damn ball to a spot.  

post #98 of 132

Yeah, trying to analyze my swing only gets me in trouble, and usually it takes someone that knows what they are talking about to point out what I'm doing wrong. To my credit, I figured out 2 things on my own, so far those 2 things have kept me out of major trouble. 

post #99 of 132
I have to admit I'm a stupid monkey. I play totally by feel. I have never understood how the swing works. I can only tell if a swing is working by results. Have no Interest in making the game anymore confusing.
post #100 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer 4 View Post
 

Yeah, trying to analyze my swing only gets me in trouble, and usually it takes someone that knows what they are talking about to point out what I'm doing wrong. To my credit, I figured out 2 things on my own, so far those 2 things have kept me out of major trouble. 

 

 

O.K., well except for my 3 wood, and driver. I have all but given up on trying to find what the heck my problem is...:mad:

post #101 of 132
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomK82 View Post

I have to admit I'm a stupid monkey. I play totally by feel. I have never understood how the swing works. I can only tell if a swing is working by results. Have no Interest in making the game anymore confusing.

 

There's a bit more to it than that. :) Did you read the first post? Stupid Monkeys are working on getting better. It's a good thing, but it doesn't mean that anyone who refuses to think or try is a "Stupid Monkey". ;-)

post #102 of 132
I read it bud. I guess I see what you mean, but don't agree that I'm not interested in improving. Don't know where that came from.
post #103 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomK82 View Post

I read it bud. I guess I see what you mean, but don't agree that I'm not interested in improving. Don't know where that came from.

 

I don't see where he said you're not interested in improving. You said you were a Stupid Monkey because you play by feel (which every player does) and never understood how the swing works. That's not what we mean by Stupid Monkey. A certain amount of knowledge is a good thing, a golfer understanding the one or two things they need to work on to make meaningful changes is a good thing. Too much information, especially when it's not specific to their pieces can be detrimental to their games.

post #104 of 132
I'm trying to be a stupid monkey, but my body isn't always cooperating.
post #105 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlSpackler View Post

I'm trying to be a stupid monkey, but my body isn't always cooperating.

Join the club, buddy.

c2_beer.gif
post #106 of 132
Thread Starter 

So tempted to get Stupid Monkey bag tags to hand out as a prize when we award the badge on-site. TST logo on one side, "Stupid Monkey" stuff on the other.

 

Not sure who would make them, but if they weren't too expensive, I think @mvmac and I would definitely consider it.

post #107 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

So tempted to get Stupid Monkey bag tags to hand out as a prize when we award the badge on-site. TST logo on one side, "Stupid Monkey" stuff on the other.

 

Not sure who would make them, but if they weren't too expensive, I think @mvmac and I would definitely consider it.

 

I think that's great!  It would also bring the inquiry of other players and friends when they see that sort of thing hanging from the bag!  

post #108 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlSpackler View Post

I'm trying to be a stupid monkey, but my body isn't always cooperating.
I'd like to be a stupid monkey, but my brain won't cooperate.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Swing Thoughts
TheSandTrap.com › Golf Forum › The Practice Range › Swing Thoughts › The Virtue of Being a Stupid Monkey (and How it can Help Your Golf Game)