or Connect
TheSandTrap.com › Golf Forum › The Clubhouse › Golf Talk › Vanity capping is worse than Sandbagging.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Vanity capping is worse than Sandbagging. - Page 6

Poll Results: Which is Worse?

 
  • 8% (7)
    Vanity Handicapping
  • 91% (71)
    Sandbagging
78 Total Votes  
post #91 of 103

I can see where some guys that have the capacity to post some very low scores but don't during every round because it's at the detriment of their enjoyment might appear to sandbag.  Their actual intent isn't to steal trophies or money in competition, it's just to enjoy their casual rounds of golf.  In this type of situation it makes the European method for managing handicap a much better method as it eliminates all casual rounds from being factored into the handicap. 

 

If I want to play my best, my head has to be in the round and I have to be focused.  No one wants to play casual golf with Mr. Intensity so I try to loosen up, have a few laughs, not read every putt or manage every shot perfectly so we can keep the round moving and have a good time.  If I'm playing in a tournament I'm going to be more serious, I don't like to lose, I will give 100% effort and I will sometimes post lower scores as a result of my increased focus and attention to what I'm doing on the course. 

post #92 of 103
Thread Starter 

Alright here's a situation for everyone.  Today my friend found a bunker on his second shot.  This bunker was hard as a rock, you couldn't even make a foot print in it.  He then proceeds to hit 4 shots into the lip of the bunker, before he gets out and deems the bunker unplayable.  Since it was unplayable he drops behind the bunker and plays his 3rd???  He had some other questionable rule infractions on the day but ESC won out anyway.  I usually tell him he is vanity capping like a boss, but the real kicker is that he is not going to post this  round or his other recent good rounds  because he has a scramble coming up.

 

What do you call a vanity capoer who sandbags?

post #93 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

I can see where some guys that have the capacity to post some very low scores but don't during every round because it's at the detriment of their enjoyment might appear to sandbag.  Their actual intent isn't to steal trophies or money in competition, it's just to enjoy their casual rounds of golf.  In this type of situation it makes the European method for managing handicap a much better method as it eliminates all casual rounds from being factored into the handicap. 

 

If I want to play my best, my head has to be in the round and I have to be focused.  No one wants to play casual golf with Mr. Intensity so I try to loosen up, have a few laughs, not read every putt or manage every shot perfectly so we can keep the round moving and have a good time.  If I'm playing in a tournament I'm going to be more serious, I don't like to lose, I will give 100% effort and I will sometimes post lower scores as a result of my increased focus and attention to what I'm doing on the course. 

I'm the same way in that regard. I pretty much need to decide before the round if I'm really out to play my best or if I want to be a little more sociable (and probably more enjoyable to be around). In a tournament I'm sure people think I'm being aloof but that's what it takes for me to play my best.

 

Of course since I don't have a handicap or play in handicap events (except for two day flighted tournaments where the flight goes off of the first day) it really doesn't matter much what I do. I usually manage to reverse sandbag myself in those flighted tournaments where I shoot just good enough the first day to get in the bottom of the championship flight (with no real chance to win that flight) and then play worse the second day than the first day.

post #94 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by carrx View Post

A vanity handicap is like a chubby girl wearing low rise jeans.  You may not like a muffin top, but she's not really hurting anybody, is she? 

Ha! Good analogy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trackster View Post


What do you call a vanity capoer who sandbags?

Lol...a weirdo.
post #95 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by trackster View Post

Alright here's a situation for everyone.  Today my friend found a bunker on his second shot.  This bunker was hard as a rock, you couldn't even make a foot print in it.  He then proceeds to hit 4 shots into the lip of the bunker, before he gets out and deems the bunker unplayable.  Since it was unplayable he drops behind the bunker and plays his 3rd???  He had some other questionable rule infractions on the day but ESC won out anyway.  I usually tell him he is vanity capping like a boss, but the real kicker is that he is not going to post this  round or his other recent good rounds  because he has a scramble coming up.

 

What do you call a vanity capoer who sandbags?

 

A vanity bagger?

post #96 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by trackster View Post

Alright here's a situation for everyone.  Today my friend found a bunker on his second shot.  This bunker was hard as a rock, you couldn't even make a foot print in it.  He then proceeds to hit 4 shots into the lip of the bunker, before he gets out and deems the bunker unplayable.  Since it was unplayable he drops behind the bunker and plays his 3rd???  He had some other questionable rule infractions on the day but ESC won out anyway.  I usually tell him he is vanity capping like a boss, but the real kicker is that he is not going to post this  round or his other recent good rounds  because he has a scramble coming up.

 

What do you call a vanity capoer who sandbags?

Sandbagging > vanity capping - he's a stupid sandbagger.  When all the numbers work out, he's probably cancelling out his ability to sandbag by maintaining a vanity cap he can't play to under tournament conditions. 

post #97 of 103

I'll weigh in on an aspect of a vanity person.    Most of these posts state that the only person that a vanity Handicapper is hurting is them selves and no one else.

 

Most states in the USA have golf associations that run state wide amateur tournaments from juniors to seniors, Tournaments of all kinds.  In bigger states the main Amateur tourney would have qualifiers to get into the main tournament which would weed out the vanities.

In smaller states they may not even have qualifiers usually there is a handicap limit set. If they have more people who want to play than they have spots they'll take the lower handicaps  

 

So conceivably a vanity could take a spot in an important tournament from a legit handicap.

 

the USGA runs qualifiers all across the country with handicap limits.  Their general rule is if you don't shoot a score within 10 shots of the course rating in their qualifiers they send out a letter telling you if you do it again you will not be allowed to enter again or something like that.

 

Nothing too strict since these qualifiers are a big source of income for all associations.  But weeding out the really bad cases.  Granted most of the people on this site aren't playing in state tournaments.  A different perspective.

post #98 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfa 115 View Post

So conceivably a vanity could take a spot in an important tournament from a legit handicap.

 

 

This kind of tournaments are for lets say the 2.0 and better cappers I think?

Is it still possible to be a vanity capper at 2.0? In my country thats not possible. When you reach 4.4 you can only play for handicap reasons when playing in official tournaments against serious competitors, who will mark you they way it is supposed to.

post #99 of 103

I don't really understand how vanity capping is even a problem.  It doesn't have anything to do with you.  When I play with my friends, we are not out there trying to lower our handicap; we are there to have fun.  They cheat all the time (rehitting tee shots,  counting scores wrong, dropping 5 feet from the green on par 3 after hitting it into the water, etc.) and never count it but I couldn't care less.    When we play tournaments or in official events and they have to keep an accurate scorecard, we all say from the beginning that we will play this one correctly and it's never a problem. 

post #100 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by trackster View Post

I'm curious as to what the consensus is on the topic.  I have seen a few threads about both.  I personally think that vanity capping is much worse.  I have a friend who has just started keeping a handicap this year.  Today on the first hole he hit one out of bounds and found it so he played it from our driving range.  On hole 6 he donated a ball to the parking lot and then proceeded to also hit his provisional out of bounds.  Instead of shooting 5 off the tee he goes and finds the first ball he hit O.B. and plays his second shot from there.  Through out the round he took many practice shots and even nailed a 15 footer with the pin in.  He also conveniently found a ball and he wasn't sure it was his so he played it anyway.  He currently plays to a 25.9 (the way he keeps score) and so when I make fun of him for not following the rules he says, "does it matter if I'm a 25 or a 30, I'm still bad."

 

I'm not entirely sure how sandbagging occurs.  Is it people just reporting false rounds, or is it people not following ESC when entering?  The reason I think vanity capping is worse is that simply enough it is blatant cheating.  If I told you one golfer was cheating on his round and another golfer was playing every stroke by the rules to the T, 100% of you would say that the person playing by the rules is the one playing the game right.  But if you say that the cheater is a vanity capper and the person playing by the rules isn't following ESC and coin him a sandbagger the role gets reversed and the vanity capper is more acceptable.  Another reason I think vanity scores are worse, is that when you take handicap out of it vanity scores are much worse.  I am bothered much more when my friends claims to par a hole that he should of been shooting 5 off the tee, then when he plays well below his ability and cards a 12 on a par 5.

 

It bothers me a lot more listening to someone claiming that they have done something that they have not done then someone downplaying their game.  I understand how sandbagging is more of an issue in tournaments and how vanity caps pretty much shoot themselves in the foot, but the cheating involved with vanity capping is what sells it to me.

 

Anyone else have an opinion of what is worse?

For players who are just beginning like your friend I see no harm that he claims a better handicap. I always tell people who are just learning to cheat. Meaning set the ball up on a tee if it helps don't get carried away counting every stroke you'll get depressed. once you start shooting an honest 110 I would say then you should start playing by the rules. Before that you should just try to learn proper etiquette and try not to slow play. Don't be afraid to pick up the ball on a blowup hole. 

post #101 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDutch View Post

 

This kind of tournaments are for lets say the 2.0 and better cappers I think?

 

Is it still possible to be a vanity capper at 2.0? In my country thats not possible. When you reach 4.4 you can only play for handicap reasons when playing in official tournaments against serious competitors, who will mark you they way it is supposed to.

This very true. Our club plays in mini Ryder cup kind of format with another club. We have a vanity handicap guy who insists on playing in this competition. He is I would say about a 22 handicap who claims to be a 4.5 handicap. It is insane but he has a hard time breaking 100. Some of the other golfers complained to our head pro who was forced to deny him entry because of his false handicap. That was last year but he was allowed to play again this year. It is an automatic loss for our team when he enters. Making it much harder for us to compete with the other club. I have never heard of such a huge vanity handicap.

post #102 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDutch View Post

 

This kind of tournaments are for lets say the 2.0 and better cappers I think?

 

Is it still possible to be a vanity capper at 2.0? In my country thats not possible. When you reach 4.4 you can only play for handicap reasons when playing in official tournaments against serious competitors, who will mark you they way it is supposed to.

Here in the US. tournament scores are posted by the tournament. You are still posting all other scores yourself.  I play a lot and maybe 6 Tourneys/qualifiers a yr will post the scores for for all entrants.

Posted tournament scores do help catch sandbagging but someone does have to be confronted not just talked about behind their back.

post #103 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by sealpuncher View Post

I don't really understand how vanity capping is even a problem.  It doesn't have anything to do with you.  When I play with my friends, we are not out there trying to lower our handicap; we are there to have fun.  They cheat all the time (rehitting tee shots,  counting scores wrong, dropping 5 feet from the green on par 3 after hitting it into the water, etc.) and never count it but I couldn't care less.    When we play tournaments or in official events and they have to keep an accurate scorecard, we all say from the beginning that we will play this one correctly and it's never a problem. 

 

It sounds like you are just playing amongst your friends, probably not handicapping so it doesn't matter.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Golf Talk
TheSandTrap.com › Golf Forum › The Clubhouse › Golf Talk › Vanity capping is worse than Sandbagging.