Originally Posted by trackster
Originally Posted by Slice of Life
How is this still an argument? Slow play is caused by slow players. Period. How can you even argue to the contrary? If the person in front is playing at a reasonable speed, and everyone behind follows suit, how can it go slow? It can't. How is this rocket science? I don't get it...
Well that is kind of a "duh" statement. The only thing is that there is more than one factor that causes players to play slow. If a course wanted to speed up play they cannot place the burden on slow players, because I guarantee you that it will not be fixed. All it takes is pace of play guidelines that are enforced by course management. If you take 14 minutes per hole that is 4:12 pace, which to me is still ungodly slow. However, it is still a lot better than the 5+ hour rounds we have heard of. Have marshals on the course. If your 14 minutes is up on the hole you pick up and move on, simple enough.
So by your reasoning, a 120 yard par 3 should take the same time to play as a 570 yard par 5? You're certainly thinking in the right direction but it you can't manage it quite like that. Most courses these days post a policy which averages somewhere between 14 and 15 minutes per hole. thinking in terms of 15 makes it easy to judge where you stand. If I'm on the 6th tee and it's 1:15 since I teed off, then we are on a 15 minute pace (5 x 15 = 75 mins = 1:15. if we are there in 1:10, then we are on a 14 minute pace (the math is easy - just one minute less per hole), 1:05 and it's 13 minutes. 13 minutes per hole is 3:54 for 18 holes. But that is an average. It may actually take 10 minutes to play that par 3 and 16 minutes to play the par 5.
Originally Posted by bplewis24
It seems like part of this topic/discussion disconnect is due to not distinguishing between cause and responsibility.
It should go without saying that players cause slow play. If a player plays fast, then play isn't slow. Duh. The next part of the discussion revolves around how much responsibility is on the players to play faster, and how much responsibility the course & management have to supplement their ability to play fast.
For me, the test is subjective but simple: if the player tries to play fast, and still is unable to, then that is the point where the course/management isn't sufficiently keeping up with their portion of the responsibility. The problem is, in my opinion and experience, most slow players aren't being held back by the starter, marshal or course difficulty/layout, they simply aren't aware they're slow, or they don't really care enough to try and play faster.
Having said that, there are some courses and managers that contribute to slow play, such as allowing 5somes, stacking front and back 9 tee times and/or not properly marshaling the course.
It's a partnership, but it needs to start with the course establishing a policy and committing to enforcing that policy. Part of that commitment is education. Tell the players what what is expected of them and help them to learn how to accomplish that goal. Players are generally accepting of anything which is enforced universally. They don't like the feeling that they are being singled out. The starter needs to give the same speech to all players, even if they are regulars who play there ever other day, or the next group following will wonder why they have been targeted for enforcement when the guys in front of them get a pass.
Another consideration - not all courses are equal. Therefore the time expected to play them shouldn't be a universal standard. Some course are going to be inherently more difficult, and making the course play easier is not going to be an acceptable solution for management or players. However, the principles of good pace of play are universal, and can be applied equally to any golf course. Playing the right tees for your game, being ready to play (meaning ready to hit, not just starting to gather information) when it's your turn, exiting the green area smartly when putting is done, with bags and carts parked on the proper side, marking scores and stats and cleaning clubs while walking or driving, or during natural waiting periods.
Originally Posted by jshots
Michael Breed had this wonderful tip today on how to improve pace of play called 1 trip to your bag per shot. Where Instead of taking the extra 2 seconds to put your club away after you hit, you should get in the cart with your club and put it away when you're getting ready for your next shot. He seemed to think it would save me 15 minutes per round. I think he is really on to something with that. (The post up to this point was 100% sarcasm)
I think the only way to approach pace of play is to drill it into young/new golfers heads. If they start slowing greens down to improve pace of play Im gonna be pissed. You know what would be cool would be to add an extra pin to each hole, color coded based on difficulty, kinda like tee boxes.
I didn't see the bit so I don't know exactly what was said, but it's just one little facet of the process. I clean my club after every shot, so I do it when I have to wait for the next player to hit. Sometimes that's immediately after I play, other times I keep it in my hand until I've driven up to the area of the next to play. A few extra seconds here and there, taken by doing a number of little tasks integral to the game, multiplied over 18 holes and 4 players can add up to many minutes wasted during the round.
This is the way that many of us who think we are fast players give the lie to that belief. When someone makes a suggestion which we see as silly, we don't even consider the implications, we just ignore it. And thus we become the problem we are trying to fix.
Think about it. You are waiting on the tee to play, and the last guy in the group in front of you hits his shot, then walks back to the cart, cleans the club, puts the head cover back on, then climbs in the cart and drives on. That took him maybe 15 seconds, but during that 15 seconds you started steaming because you had already been waiting for 2 minutes, and now you had to stand there even longer while he screwed around with his clubs. If it was me, I'd have jumped straight into the cart and been gone, cleaning and replacing the club when I next parked the cart. Would you be happier with me or that guy in front of you? If he is wasting that 15 seconds, then the chances are that he's got a couple of other irritating, time wasting mannerisms, each of which is nothing, but all together they add up to slowing down the course. Then factor in 100 other players with similar idiosyncrasies and you have a slow golf course, even if all of those players think that they are playing ready golf.
You might just want to think about it. I am, and I'm one of those who thinks he's a very fast player already.