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"Hey! While we're young!" - USGA Pace of Play - Page 13

post #217 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky View Post

Pace of play is a threefold problem: 1)The course itself  2)Slow players 3) USGA rules don't make play fast.

 

USGA rules don't encourage fast play, you want add two strokes to your score or would you rather have a chance of making par, that means you need to find your ball! More than half of golfers don't go back to the tee for a white OB stake, so make it one stroke and call it a hazard, too many courses use white stakes to try and control speed of play, but it doesn't work.

 

So it isn't just the golfers it's the whole system.

 

Just repeating incorrect things which have already been said doesn't make them any more true.  It doesn't matter how many play OB correctly or not, those things don't cause slow play, because players don't play that rule correctly on a crowded course unless it's a competition.  Thinking that it slows play is still a myth.  My four ball plays in four hours or less while still observing all of the rules (assuming that we are being held up by players who aren't playing by the rules  e3_rolleyes.gif ).  The best rule to know is Rule 27-2 - Provisional Ball.  That will save you time AND  still let you play by the rules.  

post #218 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

It doesn't matter how many play OB correctly or not, those things don't cause slow play, because players don't play that rule correctly on a crowded course unless it's a competition.  Thinking that it slows play is still a myth.

Exactly.  To further this point ...  I played in a few tournaments this year where I did unexpectedly lose a ball after not having hit a provisional and did have to drive back to hit again.  In both cases (and one even happened to be on the 17th hole - and that was the second one of that day!!) we were still able to catch back up to the group in front of us, so technically, it didn't slow anybody down AT ALL.

 

All you have to have is knowledge of the rules, etiquette, and common sense.  While I'm driving back to re-hit, my partners are playing on.  Once I'm ready to hit, they stop for a sec, let me hit, then continue to play on while I'm driving back up.  By the time I get there, they're all done and ready for me to finish.  As opposed to say waiting for me while doing nothing because I'm away.  That would slow things down quite a bit, but its not the rule slowing things down, its the players not understanding the right way to apply it.

 

I still wouldn't advocate doing this during casual rounds.  If you lose one unexpectedly, just drop, add two and move on, but still, it is totally a myth that the rules are a cause of slow play.

post #219 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

Exactly.  To further this point ...  I played in a few tournaments this year where I did unexpectedly lose a ball after not having hit a provisional and did have to drive back to hit again.  In both cases (and one even happened to be on the 17th hole - and that was the second one of that day!!) we were still able to catch back up to the group in front of us, so technically, it didn't slow anybody down AT ALL.

 

All you have to have is knowledge of the rules, etiquette, and common sense.  While I'm driving back to re-hit, my partners are playing on.  Once I'm ready to hit, they stop for a sec, let me hit, then continue to play on while I'm driving back up.  By the time I get there, they're all done and ready for me to finish.  As opposed to say waiting for me while doing nothing because I'm away.  That would slow things down quite a bit, but its not the rule slowing things down, its the players not understanding the right way to apply it.

 

I still wouldn't advocate doing this during casual rounds.  If you lose one unexpectedly, just drop, add two and move on, but still, it is totally a myth that the rules are a cause of slow play.

The key word here is DRIVE. I much prefer to walk and if I had to walk back to the tee it would take way too long. But then again the provisional option is there. What we do in a casual round is just as you suggest. We drop on a line back towards the tee box and take the penalty.

post #220 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchott View Post

The key word here is DRIVE. I much prefer to walk and if I had to walk back to the tee it would take way too long. But then again the provisional option is there. What we do in a casual round is just as you suggest. We drop on a line back towards the tee box and take the penalty.

 

right.  especially with all of us here on this forum.  it takes a long time to walk out to our 420 yard drives, and then to walk back?

post #221 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by colin007 View Post

 

right.  especially with all of us here on this forum.  it takes a long time to walk out to our 420 yard drives, and then to walk back?

 

Even 250 yards (at a 10 minute per km pace) is going to take 2.5 minutes...then tee up, line up, take the shot, and walk out again 2.5 minutes. This easily adds 7 or 8 minutes to that hole. Even if the rest of your foursome carries on and leaves you behind, if there is another group in the tee box, you are now holding them up for 5 minutes or so while you take a second tee shot, then walk back out to hit your approach.

 

The rules take time, you can argue it all day, but if I am gonna go stomping through the woods (not OB) to avoid a lost ball penalty, then that shit takes time. 

post #222 of 457

Is "While We're Young" Rude?

Certainly the USGA's campaign to speed up play is much needed.  Still some may receive the message as a license to blurt out "while we're young" to anybody that seems to be holding things up.  Many of us are not slow players but almost all of us occasionally find ourselves in situations that make us appear to be slow.  If someone rolled up on me in his/her cart and said "while we're young", I would ignore them but I would mentally bury my wedge into their cerebral cortex.

 

I hope the USGA's ads result in improved pace of play but I suspect there are going to be some dustups on the course from the use of "while we're young".

post #223 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkuehn1952 View Post

Certainly the USGA's campaign to speed up play is much needed.  Still some may receive the message as a license to blurt out "while we're young" to anybody that seems to be holding things up.  Many of us are not slow players but almost all of us occasionally find ourselves in situations that make us appear to be slow.  If someone rolled up on me in his/her cart and said "while we're young", I would ignore them but I would mentally bury my wedge into their cerebral cortex.

 

I hope the USGA's ads result in improved pace of play but I suspect there are going to be some dustups on the course from the use of "while we're young".

The way things are today I wouldn't be surprised if some people found it antagonistic and caused the situation to escalate.  I can also imagine it's a phrase that will be abused, especially by those who drink copious amounts of beer while playing. 

 

Even worse, it will be the new thing for drunken gallery members to yell out while we're all watching the PGA Tour on television.  Between the anchored putter ban and now this campaign I suspect Keegan Bradley is going to have a rough summer. 

post #224 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

Even worse, it will be the new thing for drunken gallery members to yell out while we're all watching the PGA Tour on television.  Between the anchored putter ban and now this campaign I suspect Keegan Bradley is going to have a rough summer. 

 

Ha!  I hadn't even realized that both of these circumstances impact Keegan.  Very funny.  Well, kinda funny.

post #225 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

The way things are today I wouldn't be surprised if some people found it antagonistic and caused the situation to escalate.  I can also imagine it's a phrase that will be abused, especially by those who drink copious amounts of beer while playing. 

 

Even worse, it will be the new thing for drunken gallery members to yell out while we're all watching the PGA Tour on television.  Between the anchored putter ban and now this campaign I suspect Keegan Bradley is going to have a rough summer. 

 

 

This - and if it actually takes in 'the real world' it'll just just more discourtesy.  It's a really poorly thought out campaign - despite clearly well meaning intentions.  (people come up with concepts and then visualize it being executed in the most positive manner exactly as they see it.  In reality, 100 people have 100 personality types and the application of the concept will degrade to the lowest common denominator - human nature is still the same).

 

they could be in government - good intentions, disastrous results.  But, HEY!, you have to do something, anything, just to look like you are busy.

post #226 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post

 

 

This - and if it actually takes in 'the real world' it'll just just more discourtesy.  It's a really poorly thought out campaign - despite clearly well meaning intentions.  (people come up with concepts and then visualize it being executed in the most positive manner exactly as they see it.  In reality, 100 people have 100 personality types and the application of the concept will degrade to the lowest common denominator - human nature is still the same).

 

they could be in government - good intentions, disastrous results.  But, HEY!, you have to do something, anything, just to look like you are busy.

The phrase was borrowed from Caddyshack, which wasn't exactly a portrayal of golf at its finest.  Despite the USGA's attempt to spin it in a positive manner, people will ultimately refer back to the original use in the movie where Rodney's intended to be crude and obnoxious. 

post #227 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvarley84 View Post

 

Even 250 yards (at a 10 minute per km pace) is going to take 2.5 minutes...then tee up, line up, take the shot, and walk out again 2.5 minutes. This easily adds 7 or 8 minutes to that hole. Even if the rest of your foursome carries on and leaves you behind, if there is another group in the tee box, you are now holding them up for 5 minutes or so while you take a second tee shot, then walk back out to hit your approach.

 

The rules take time, you can argue it all day, but if I am gonna go stomping through the woods (not OB) to avoid a lost ball penalty, then that shit takes time. 

Thank you. Spot on.

post #228 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

The phrase was borrowed from Caddyshack, which wasn't exactly a portrayal of golf at its finest.  Despite the USGA's attempt to spin it in a positive manner, people will ultimately refer back to the original use in the movie where Rodney's intended to be crude and obnoxious. 


agreed, and despite USGAs attempt, Rymer's commercials still reflect that vein anyway, and encourage it.  Fail on many levels (thinking things through, not understanding the client base, execution, etc etc etc) - unless it just fizzles and nothing comes of it

 

this is something that needs to be addressed on a local level, nationally it's just too far removed

post #229 of 457
It may not be a perfect campaign, and people will disagree with who is at fault, but If nothing else, it has people thinking about pace of play. Perhaps individuals and courses will take some steps to improve where they can as a result of increased awareness.

My personal approach to pace of play problems is I avoid courses that are notorious for slow play and I play late in the afternoon and evening when the crowds are gone. I have not enjoyed long rounds in many years and just found ways to avoid them.
post #230 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchott View Post

The key word here is DRIVE. I much prefer to walk and if I had to walk back to the tee it would take way too long. But then again the provisional option is there. What we do in a casual round is just as you suggest. We drop on a line back towards the tee box and take the penalty.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by colin007 View Post

right.  especially with all of us here on this forum.  it takes a long time to walk out to our 420 yard drives, and then to walk back?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvarley84 View Post

Even 250 yards (at a 10 minute per km pace) is going to take 2.5 minutes...then tee up, line up, take the shot, and walk out again 2.5 minutes. This easily adds 7 or 8 minutes to that hole. Even if the rest of your foursome carries on and leaves you behind, if there is another group in the tee box, you are now holding them up for 5 minutes or so while you take a second tee shot, then walk back out to hit your approach.

 

The rules take time, you can argue it all day, but if I am gonna go stomping through the woods (not OB) to avoid a lost ball penalty, then that shit takes time. 

Yeah, fair points ... all.  But, again, there are still things that can be done to counteract that.  For example, when I've hit one into the woods that may take time finding, even if I'm walking, I make it a point to get after it ASAP and walk extra fast so I can start looking before the rest of the group even gets to their tee shots.

 

I will concede that if I'm walking and lose a ball unexpectedly, it is going to take a few minutes to search for it and a few more minutes to go back and re-hit.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkuehn1952 View Post

I hope the USGA's ads result in improved pace of play but I suspect there are going to be some dustups on the course from the use of "while we're young".

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

The way things are today I wouldn't be surprised if some people found it antagonistic and caused the situation to escalate. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post

It's a really poorly thought out campaign - despite clearly well meaning intentions.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post

agreed, and despite USGAs attempt, Rymer's commercials still reflect that vein anyway, and encourage it.  Fail on many levels (thinking things through, not understanding the client base, execution, etc etc etc) - unless it just fizzles and nothing comes of it

 

this is something that needs to be addressed on a local level, nationally it's just too far removed

I hadn't thought of this, but I believe you guys are all right.  Who wants to be called a knucklehead?  They're funny commercials if you're watching them as a fast player (or at least somebody who thinks they're a fast player) but the people they are directed at will probably take offense.  Especially newbies who just don't yet know some of those little things.

post #231 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

I hadn't thought of this, but I believe you guys are all right.  Who wants to be called a knucklehead?  They're funny commercials if you're watching them as a fast player (or at least somebody who thinks they're a fast player) but the people they are directed at will probably take offense.  Especially newbies who just don't yet know some of those little things.

 

Yea, I especially don't like the commercial where they are talking about gadgets...Lets face it, someone in their 30's or 40's who is learning to play golf is going to go out and buy nice clubs and all the swing aids, gps, rangefinder, and swing correction gadgets they can afford. Why? Because although they air one of the hurry up commercials once an hour....the rest of the commercials are all advertising everything that can improve your game!!

post #232 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvarley84 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by colin007 View Post

 

right.  especially with all of us here on this forum.  it takes a long time to walk out to our 420 yard drives, and then to walk back?

 

Even 250 yards (at a 10 minute per km pace) is going to take 2.5 minutes...then tee up, line up, take the shot, and walk out again 2.5 minutes. This easily adds 7 or 8 minutes to that hole. Even if the rest of your foursome carries on and leaves you behind, if there is another group in the tee box, you are now holding them up for 5 minutes or so while you take a second tee shot, then walk back out to hit your approach.

 

The rules take time, you can argue it all day, but if I am gonna go stomping through the woods (not OB) to avoid a lost ball penalty, then that shit takes time. 

 

Which means absolutely nothing as long as you are still keeping up with the group in front of you.  Most of us aren't talking about taking a full, allowed 5 minutes for every errant ball.  I can't remember the last time I took the full 5 minutes.  The rules don't require that you take 5 minutes.  What I do 99% of the time when I hit a ball that far off line is play a provisional ball.  Then I give a quick check where my ball should be, and if there is no chance to find it, or to hit it if I do find it, I go continue with my provisional ball.  The rule has been followed and I almost never have to even consider walking (or driving) back to the previous spot.  The only extra time it took was the 30 seconds to play the provisional ball.  

 

If, as usual, I'm waiting on the group in front, then I may take longer to search, since there's nothing else to do. d2_doh.gif

post #233 of 457

As a player your duty is to keep pace with the group in front of you. If you do your best to do that one simple thing, there's nothing else that can be done to improve the pace of play on that given day. Foolish childish commercials or not.

 

Could be 3 hrs or it could be 6 hours on any given day. If you don't like the pace of play @ a certain course, then play elsewhere. It's your right of choice, use it.

 

 

 

IMO, Practicing your chipping will help the pace of play more than typing your analogy on a forum.

post #234 of 457

and lets not forget that a lot of the pin placements are ridiculous - at least in the phila area

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