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"Hey! While we're young!" - USGA Pace of Play - Page 6

post #91 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugDude View Post

I typically play 18 holes by myself in the evenings in 2 hours 15 minutes.  That's not rushing or trying to play speed golf, that's just playing.  Hit and roll.  With 2 people, usually 3 hours tops.  With 4 people, I could understand 4 hours, but with the guys I play with I doubt it would be over 3 and a half.

 

I was playing with a gentleman today in his 80s, and there was a 2-some in front of us holding us up all day long.  I've never seen anyone take so long to hit a golf ball.  Literally 9 practice swings.  Stand there over it like a statue, look up again, back down, up, back down, then hit, stand there and watch it, mosey back to the cart wiping off the club and putting it back, getting sand and filling the divot like he was making art, etc.  His partner driving the cart would park 10 yards from his ball, walk over, do the same thing stuff as above, walk back over and change clubs, start over, etc.  It was painful.


Get on your cell phone and call the club house and get a marshall out there to watch. That is what I do, and it works.

post #92 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

Whoopty doo. They'll still be competing for the same amount of money if they play faster.

 

 

I do. It's said that Jack Nicklaus single-handedly increased the average round of golf by 30 minutes. TV shows players pacing around the hole for putts, looking from every angle, tossing grass in the air on approach shots, etc.

And you can say the exact same thing about Tiger in that context!

If there was anything that Tiger and Jack share it is the ability to take a long time on the greens when in contention in a major. I understand your younger than me Erik and you don't have the knowledge of actually watching pro golf from the 1970's into the present. Neither Jack or Tiger were slow in the respect of "putting them on the clock" but what usually played out for both of them was their playing partner would be so far out of it they would rush to get out of the way and let them have the stage.

What I've witnessed in both Tiger and Jack when in contention in a major is to look at a putt from 5 different angles and hover over the ball for a few more minutes until they are settled and ready to go. When it comes to the few extra minutes Jack and Tiger took/take to look over a putt nobody would ever call them on it because they are two of the greatest to ever play the game but both of them have a part in slowing down the game! 

 

When Jack or Tiger were/are out of contention at a major they play at what would be considered a normal pace of play on the greens, which is a credit to both of them!

post #93 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

FWIW, that's not exactly speedy if you were first out.

 


 

Do you disagree that if everyone played faster, eight- to ten-minute spacing in tee times wouldn't be a problem?

 

If four golfers begin hitting their shots on a typical par four at 9:00, by 9:08 the next group should be able to hit because the first group should have taken about 2 minutes to tee off, four minutes to drive to and find their golf balls, and two more minutes to hit.

 

Additionally, golfers are put out more frequently because golfers are slow. If rounds took less time golfers could be sent out later in the day.

 

Can courses do things, too? Yes. But the onus is on golfers themselves. Eight-minute spacing in tee times don't make people read their five-foot putt for double-bogey putt from both sides of the hole.

 

In a perfect world you are right. BUT, a 30 handicapper who tops his first shot 60 feet, then pushes his second shot right in the woods, then hits his 3rd shot in the bunker in the middle of the fairway @ 180 yards, then takes 3 to get out of the bunker, then hits his 7th shot in the bunker over the green, then hits a tiger quality shot 10 feet from the pin needs to look at the putt from all sides of the odds are he'll 3 jerk it. By now the course is off schedule by 15+++ min easy. Ooops for got, the Pro shop just sold him a new driver that would fix his swing. :-o

 

Holes that are 305 yars are rediculous. The big hitters have/will wait untill the foursome in front of them is finished before they will hit. Then the big hitter hits the biggest slice of his life in to the other fairway. Now he has to wait until the foursome coming down the other fairway hits before he can hit his second shot from another fairway. Yada Yada Yada we've all seen it before, let's add that time up for that hole.

 

Holes with bunkers in the middle of the faiway should be removed and filled in. Golf course designers intentionally (mwwahahahaha) put the bunkers @ 180 yards where 90% of the 10 to 30 handicap players will either end up in it, or swing out of their shoes and hit another slice in the woods. Who caused that slow down play problem??? Oh!!! how many courses have sand in the bunkers?

 

The Hooters girl in the beverage cart is another pet peive of mine. Alcohol on a golf course???? 9am beers & bloody mary's??? We might as well start serving beer at the Toll Booths on our local highways. Let's get em drunk to speed up play :-o Dahhhhhhhh :-)

 

Idiotic greens keepers who keep the rough up over 2" and run the greens at 12 on the stimp. You ever watch a 30 handicapper attempt to hit a 260 yard shot out of 3" of juicy rough with a pond 70 yards away?

 

Tree's in the middle of the fairways. Who's idea wha this???? The odds are the best shot the 30 handicapper will hit all day will hit that tree. Designers & management in some cases are idiots.

 

You ever watch a 15 to 30 handicapper putt on fast greens? Who's bright management idea was that? Why??? because the six single digit golfers at the club are on the board of directors?? 90% players hit the green and end up in the bunker over the green, hit a sand shot 20 feet from the pin then 3 putt. Add up all them 45 seconds!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Lazy useless resident pro's who sit in the pro shop all day and chat with the assistant pro to run the cash register and count the revenue for the owner. This one could be a long discussion. :-o

 

The 84 year old player who's been the past president of the club six times in 62 years tee's off first every sunday morning?

 

IMO 90% of the slow play problems are caused by Management, Resident Pro's & Golf Course Designers. So, who's kidding who here. The campain by the USGA along with Arnie, Jack, Tiger & Anika are blaming the average golfer and I'm not happy about that. Face it, you're never going to get the average weekend golfer to run on a golf course.

 

So, stop laying the blame on the 30 handicapper for the problems management, pro's & course designers created.

post #94 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfer6760 View Post

 

In a perfect world you are right. BUT, a 30 handicapper who tops his first shot 60 feet, then pushes his second shot right in the woods, then hits his 3rd ...... So, stop laying the blame on the 30 handicapper for the problems management, pro's & course designers created.

 

Funny post but.... A 30-capper shoots from 100-120, thats a lot less then what you post. The 30-capper schould pick up his ball and move forward instead of playing to hole his octuple-bogey!
post #95 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfer6760 View Post

 

In a perfect world you are right. BUT, a 30 handicapper who tops his first shot 60 feet, then pushes his second shot right in the woods, then hits his 3rd shot in the bunker in the middle of the fairway @ 180 yards, then takes 3 to get out of the bunker, then hits his 7th shot in the bunker over the green, then hits a tiger quality shot 10 feet from the pin needs to look at the putt from all sides of the odds are he'll 3 jerk it. By now the course is off schedule by 15+++ min easy. Ooops for got, the Pro shop just sold him a new driver that would fix his swing. :-o

 

Holes that are 305 yars are rediculous. The big hitters have/will wait untill the foursome in front of them is finished before they will hit. Then the big hitter hits the biggest slice of his life in to the other fairway. Now he has to wait until the foursome coming down the other fairway hits before he can hit his second shot from another fairway. Yada Yada Yada we've all seen it before, let's add that time up for that hole.

 

Holes with bunkers in the middle of the faiway should be removed and filled in. Golf course designers intentionally (mwwahahahaha) put the bunkers @ 180 yards where 90% of the 10 to 30 handicap players will either end up in it, or swing out of their shoes and hit another slice in the woods. Who caused that slow down play problem??? Oh!!! how many courses have sand in the bunkers?

 

The Hooters girl in the beverage cart is another pet peive of mine. Alcohol on a golf course???? 9am beers & bloody mary's??? We might as well start serving beer at the Toll Booths on our local highways. Let's get em drunk to speed up play :-o Dahhhhhhhh :-)

 

Idiotic greens keepers who keep the rough up over 2" and run the greens at 12 on the stimp. You ever watch a 30 handicapper attempt to hit a 260 yard shot out of 3" of juicy rough with a pond 70 yards away?

 

Tree's in the middle of the fairways. Who's idea wha this???? The odds are the best shot the 30 handicapper will hit all day will hit that tree. Designers & management in some cases are idiots.

 

You ever watch a 15 to 30 handicapper putt on fast greens? Who's bright management idea was that? Why??? because the six single digit golfers at the club are on the board of directors?? 90% players hit the green and end up in the bunker over the green, hit a sand shot 20 feet from the pin then 3 putt. Add up all them 45 seconds!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Lazy useless resident pro's who sit in the pro shop all day and chat with the assistant pro to run the cash register and count the revenue for the owner. This one could be a long discussion. :-o

 

The 84 year old player who's been the past president of the club six times in 62 years tee's off first every sunday morning?

 

IMO 90% of the slow play problems are caused by Management, Resident Pro's & Golf Course Designers. So, who's kidding who here. The campain by the USGA along with Arnie, Jack, Tiger & Anika are blaming the average golfer and I'm not happy about that. Face it, you're never going to get the average weekend golfer to run on a golf course.

 

So, stop laying the blame on the 30 handicapper for the problems management, pro's & course designers created.

 

 

Short par 4's are fine, because if a big hitter hits it near the green, he's going to spend less time on the hole anways. The reason being, 300 yard hitters are GOOD golfers, so its naturally things will equal out there.

 

Then don't hit it in the bunker

 

I think Arthur Hills routinely designs courses with tress in the middle of fairways. Love it :p

 

Hot cart girls is not a problem, Alcohal at 7am is a problem. At least hold off till brunch :p

 

Hardly ever see a public course with heavy rough. Might get some thick rough, usually 1-2 inches that make it challenging, but never impossible.

 

Also, i never see greens near 12 stimp at a public course, there usually 7-9. I played a course recently with the best public greens i have ever seen. No ball marks, they were speedy, probably ran 10-10.5 on the Stimp. That was probably the top 5 fastest greens i have ever played on for a public course. I play a lot of golf. Really faster greens are easier to putt on anyways. Its tougher to judge the distance on slow greens, especially at long distances. I think more amateurs three putt slow greens than fast greens because they will be leaving putts 5-8 feet short, then jack the next putt 10 feet past. While on fast greens they will have some restraint, and not need to force speed on putts.

 

No slow play is caused by players, period. Even if a ranger comes out on the course and says speed it up, the group can just not listen to them. So ultimate power on pace of play is on the players. If players are playing a course that is tough, then move up on the tee box. Some courses are very tough in the low 6000 yard range, move down to the next tee box. Its not the yardage that matters, its matching the slope and rating to your ability. So if your having trouble with course design, maybe your playing the wrong set of tees, or just don't know how to play the golf course.

post #96 of 457

The problem with some clowns out there is that they somehow don't think they're getting their monies worth if they don't stretch out every hole . I'm very inconsistent , play nine hole a week . I could get a par or a seven on any hole . When things are going bad I'll pick up . If God forbid I get the shanks , I will pick up before I get to the green , Courses should clearly post that no one should score more than an eight on any hole and you must finish 9 holes in 2 hours . The practice range is where you work on your game , not the course .

post #97 of 457

Played on Saturday. Front 9 by myself, and a friend joined up for the back 9. 3 groups were cool and invited me to play through on the front.

 

I finished the entire round in just under 3.5 hours. And I shot a 95, so it's not like I'm Tiger Woods...

post #98 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfer6760 View Post

IMO 90% of the slow play problems are caused by Management, Resident Pro's & Golf Course Designers..

 

I completely disagree and don't think you've done anything to prove your point to the contrary.

post #99 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

I completely disagree and don't think you've done anything to prove your point to the contrary.

 

This.

 

Even if there are a hundred golfers on the tee box waiting, as long as the front group plays at a good pace, and everyone behind follows suit, from first shot to end should be no more than 4 hours on a busy day.

post #100 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDutch View Post

 

Funny post but.... A 30-capper shoots from 100-120, thats a lot less then what you post. The 30-capper schould pick up his ball and move forward instead of playing to hole his octuple-bogey!

 

Yep.

 

We played yesterday behind a 3-generation 3-some.....Father's Day outing I'm sure.  Kid was maybe 12 and not a good golfer, even by 12 year old standards.  Hell, dad and grandad weren't all that hot.  BUT, the kid would hit, hit, hit, then drop on the green and putt out.

 

My 4-some followed them all day, and while we waited a bit (we're fast), it was a very reasonable pace.  They kept up with the group ahead of them and we finished in 4:05, having gone off at 9am on Sunday morning on a popular course.  It's not about the handicap, it's not about the course design, it's not about having a beverage cart, it's not walking vs riding, it's about AWARENESS on the part of the golfers on the course. 

post #101 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post

Even if there are a hundred golfers on the tee box waiting, as long as the front group plays at a good pace, and everyone behind follows suit, from first shot to end should be no more than 4 hours on a busy day.

 

Yes. Any reasonably "fair" golf course can be played in four hours from the time you hit your first drive.

 

And I've yet to see more than one "unfair" golf course in the several hundred I've played.

post #102 of 457

Scramble style golf is best for newer players.  We did that when my wife and friend were first starting.  We could easily do four hour rounds with this or a two hour nine hole round.  It also is less intimidating for new players knowing they don't have to play the shank from the rough.  Now we play normal stroke play and will do 9 in 2 hours or less as long as we are not waiting.

 

USGA should add this hint to their list.

post #103 of 457

I played with my two grandsons (12 & 18) yesterday afternoon.  But at the club there were several groups out with kids much younger.  You just have to be patient in the late afternoon and it took us 2 1/2 hours to do 9 holes.   Having said that I would expect that a "normal adult foursome" should be able to do 18 in something less than 4 hours at least 90% of the time.  

 

I read many of the posts here and I fall on the side of the PGA is a poor example, doesn't enforce its own rules and is an influence on the amateur game.  I know there is millions on the line but there is no good excuse for taking over 5 minutes to hit your ball.   The LPGA at least makes an effort to set an example of playing time.  

post #104 of 457

Interesting concept, fun commercials.

 

But I'm not thrilled, particularly with "Rymer's" commercials on it.  He's essentially acting like a jerk to the subject of the commercial and, I suspect, that'll let 'natural jerks' in the real world be a-holes about it on the course, too.

 

Just what golf needs, a bunch of self entitled, privileged jerks that now think it's funny and necessary to be idiots while trying to police all the rest of the players.

 

Hopeful still that people can feel enabled to give "courteous" reminders to others about pace of play so everyone gets into the habit of playing ready golf.  But my cynical side doesn't see it happening in a classy way.

post #105 of 457

The explosion of slow rounds, IMO, is a direct result of golf carts.  My buddies and I all know what to do - drop each other off, everyone is ready to hit, but for most weekend golfers they have no idea what to do.  Both carts drive up to the shortest ball, wait for him to hit, then maybe they split up to the next two balls, etc. it's maddening.  

 

Also, practice swings.  There is ZERO reason to wait for your turn, THEN take two full practice swings before you hit your shot.  Take your practice swings while you're waiting to hit, get up there and hit the ball when it's your turn.  

post #106 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post

Scramble style golf is best for newer players.  We did that when my wife and friend were first starting.  We could easily do four hour rounds with this or a two hour nine hole round.  It also is less intimidating for new players knowing they don't have to play the shank from the rough.  Now we play normal stroke play and will do 9 in 2 hours or less as long as we are not waiting.

 

USGA should add this hint to their list.

I was behind a foursome playing a scramble format on Saturday, they were still crazy slow! This is something that, I agree, should be promoted by the USGA. I also played a very slow round on Sunday at a local muni Par 3 course. At the par 3 I never complained, THIS is where the less experienced and new golfers SHOULD be playing. I agree that slow play is an issue with more experienced golfers as well, but I feel that the USGA should be promoting these small courses more for beginner players and try keeping them off the regulation courses until they are better suited for the course. I have to drive an hour to find a par 3, they are becoming extinct here, courses seem to be trying to be bigger and longer, following the lead of the PGA.

post #107 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriskzoo View Post

The explosion of slow rounds, IMO, is a direct result of golf carts.  My buddies and I all know what to do - drop each other off, everyone is ready to hit, but for most weekend golfers they have no idea what to do.  Both carts drive up to the shortest ball, wait for him to hit, then maybe they split up to the next two balls, etc. it's maddening.  

 

Also, practice swings.  There is ZERO reason to wait for your turn, THEN take two full practice swings before you hit your shot.  Take your practice swings while you're waiting to hit, get up there and hit the ball when it's your turn.  

 

No way. I'm always in a cart, and we drive up to each ball...the person hits, then we drive to the next one. If it's me and the guy I normally golf with after work, we finish 9 in an hour and a half tops.

 

It doesn't have to do with carts, poor play, practice swings, etc.,

 

It has to do with a lack of urgency or just general laziness. You see people waddling along at 1.2 mph and every movement is like molasses. It's got nothing to do with golf carts. Get rid of those, and add another 40 minutes to your wait time for a round.

post #108 of 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post

But I'm not thrilled, particularly with "Rymer's" commercials on it.  He's essentially acting like a jerk to the subject of the commercial and, I suspect, that'll let 'natural jerks' in the real world be a-holes about it on the course, too.

 

If it gets slow players moving faster, I say let your jerk flag fly.

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