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2013 NCAA College Football - Page 16

post #271 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by k-troop View Post
 

 

Just looked at the top-5 teams from the Big-X and SEC.  In each case, 4/5 teams had one major conference team (if you count ND as a major conference team) on the OOC schedule.  Ohio State's problem is that their "major" OOC game this year was Cal, who happens to be 1-10.  

 

So I'll agree that the OOC schedules are equally squishy.

 

I also agree that ranking and SoS calculations are circular, a point I've made before.  SEC gets an artificial boost because everyone assumes that the SEC is so tough, so their SoS gets a boost, and their rankings get a boost, so their SoS gets a boost....

 

I haven't watched Ohio State much this year, so I'll admit that I'm basing my opinion primarily on gut--the Big-X has sucked for a while, and OSU is just doing what they have done so many times before.  Likewise I think the Big-12 is down this year, so I don't necessarily think Baylor is all that good relative to FSU.

 

I think the ACC is the only conference that's really proven themselves this year, with Clemson and Miami racking big wins over Florida and GA (and probably SC in a few weeks, but obviously not yet).  FSU has pummeled both Clemson and Miami, so I think FSU has really "earned" it's spot.  If Clemson beats SC then I'll probably agree that ACC is the best conference overall this year (at least comparing the top teams--but I think that the middle teams are stronger in the SEC).

 

Bama has earned the #1 spot by not really being challenged and not losing a game for as long as anyone can remember.  What have they lost twice this decade?  Looking at the SEC as a conference, you could argue that they've lost to the ACC in big matchups--but I still think Bama deserves to be #1 until someone beats them.

 

Teams with only 2 losses or less

Pac 12: Stanford, Oregon, Arizona St, UCLA

ACC: FSU, Clemson, 

SEC: Missouri, SC, Alabama, Auburn, Texas A&M

Big 10: Ohio State, Michigan State, Minnesota (WTF), Wisconsin

Big 12: Baylor, OSU 

 

Honestly I think the ACC might be still down. It is just this year they have two elite teams, instead of just a few good teams. Overall ACC is very top heavy. I think the top two divisions are Pac-12 and SEC, followed by the ACC & Big Ten, then the Big 12. 

post #272 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by k-troop View Post
 

 

Just looked at the top-5 teams from the Big-X and SEC.  In each case, 4/5 teams had one major conference team (if you count ND as a major conference team) on the OOC schedule.  Ohio State's problem is that their "major" OOC game this year was Cal, who happens to be 1-10.

 

So I'll agree that the OOC schedules are equally squishy.

 

I also agree that ranking and SoS calculations are circular, a point I've made before.  SEC gets an artificial boost because everyone assumes that the SEC is so tough, so their SoS gets a boost, and their rankings get a boost, so their SoS gets a boost....

 

I haven't watched Ohio State much this year, so I'll admit that I'm basing my opinion primarily on gut--the Big-X has sucked for a while, and OSU is just doing what they have done so many times before.  Likewise I think the Big-12 is down this year, so I don't necessarily think Baylor is all that good relative to FSU.

 

I think the ACC is the only conference that's really proven themselves this year, with Clemson and Miami racking big wins over Florida and GA (and probably SC in a few weeks, but obviously not yet).  FSU has pummeled both Clemson and Miami, so I think FSU has really "earned" it's spot.  If Clemson beats SC then I'll probably agree that ACC is the best conference overall this year (at least comparing the top teams--but I think that the middle teams are stronger in the SEC).

 

Bama has earned the #1 spot by not really being challenged and not losing a game for as long as anyone can remember.  What have they lost twice this decade?  Looking at the SEC as a conference, you could argue that they've lost to the ACC in big matchups--but I still think Bama deserves to be #1 until someone beats them.

Now this is a pretty sound argument.  Can't really disagree with any of it.  Except based on your points and what I have seen this year (like you, I haven't seen much of OSU) I'd probably say it sounds like FSU should be 1 and Bama should be 2.  I'm not keen on factoring in past performance, so the fact that Bama did well last year and the year before that, etc, etc shouldn't really matter.

 

Of course, it's just splitting hairs trying to decide between 1 and 2 anyway since it makes no difference  (expect perhaps choice of uniform color??  I don't know).  Good post. :)

post #273 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

 

Teams with only 2 losses or less

Pac 12: Stanford, Oregon, Arizona St, UCLA

ACC: FSU, Clemson,

SEC: Missouri, SC, Alabama, Auburn, Texas A&M

Big 10: Ohio State, Michigan State, Minnesota (WTF), Wisconsin

Big 12: Baylor, OSU

 

Honestly I think the ACC might be still down. It is just this year they have two elite teams, instead of just a few good teams. Overall ACC is very top heavy. I think the top two divisions are Pac-12 and SEC, followed by the ACC & Big Ten, then the Big 12.

And if you look at each of those teams losses, you'll find that Oklahoma State lost to West Virginia (whoops), Arizona State and Michigan State each lost by 3 points to Notre Dame, and Wisconsin lost to Arizona State by 2 points.  Other than that, the rest (15 losses total) are all conference losses.  Not a lot, it seems to me, that you can learn from that.

post #274 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

I'm not keen on factoring in past performance, so the fact that Bama did well last year and the year before that, etc, etc shouldn't really matter.

 

 

(IMO) The two biggest factors on any college football team are QB talent and coaching.  Let's start with Nick Saban.  He's pretty good.

 

And then there's AJ McCarron.  The dude has already led the Tide to two SEC titles, two BCS Championships, etc.  I agree that last year doesn't matter much, but AJ is obviously a major factor on that team, and he's never been beaten when it counted.  Plus he's got a really, really hot girlfriend, so even BC would give Bama a good grade.

post #275 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by k-troop View Post
 

 

(IMO) The two biggest factors on any college football team are QB talent and coaching.  Let's start with Nick Saban.  He's pretty good.

 

And then there's AJ McCarron.  The dude has already led the Tide to two SEC titles, two BCS Championships, etc.  I agree that last year doesn't matter much, but AJ is obviously a major factor on that team, and he's never been beaten when it counted.  Plus he's got a really, really hot girlfriend, so even BC would give Bama a good grade.

LOL ... we already know what BM has to say on that.  BTW, how you like her Carl's Jr. commercial??? ;)

 

post #276 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

LOL ... we already know what BM has to say on that.  BTW, how you like her Carl's Jr. commercial??? ;)

 

 

That looks...tasty.  :drool:

post #277 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

LOL ... we already know what BM has to say on that.  BTW, how you like her Carl's Jr. commercial??? ;)

 

 

 

Once you go Black "Angus" you never go back. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by k-troop View Post
 

 

(IMO) The two biggest factors on any college football team are QB talent and coaching.  Let's start with Nick Saban.  He's pretty good.

 

And then there's AJ McCarron.  The dude has already led the Tide to two SEC titles, two BCS Championships, etc.  I agree that last year doesn't matter much, but AJ is obviously a major factor on that team, and he's never been beaten when it counted.  Plus he's got a really, really hot girlfriend, so even BC would give Bama a good grade.

 

Like Urban Meyer said, Talent will get you 8-9 wins, add in leadership and you got something special. Leadership is developed through good coaching. So yes, Talent + coaching = Success. 

 

Yes the Hot Girlfriend gives Alabama the number 1 spot in the BCS :-D, its the hidden category they don't tell you about. 

post #278 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

 

Yes the Hot Girlfriend gives Alabama the number 1 spot in the BCS :-D, its the hidden category they don't tell you about.

Nope, can't agree to that.  More analysis required.

 

post #279 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Nope, can't agree to that.  More analysis required.

 

 

Talk about using last year's performance to support current rankings.  She's on the Packers' fan roster now.

post #280 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by k-troop View Post

Talk about using last year's performance to support current rankings.  She's on the Packers' fan roster now.

Now you understand why I married into the ACC,

a3_biggrin.gif
post #281 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by k-troop View Post
 

 

Talk about using last year's performance to support current rankings.  She's on the Packers' fan roster now.

Touche.  I went back and googled "Florida State Fans 2013" to find something from this season, and ... no luck. ;)  (Unless you want to see tomahawk chopping shirtless dudes, and I'm guessing you do not. ;))

post #282 of 692
The appropriate google would be "nole girls" (they're still around) but the girl in that pic is Jenn Sterger of Brett Favre junk texts fame.
post #283 of 692
CONFERENCE          CENTRAL MEAN    SIMPLE AVERAGE  TEAMS      WIN50%

   1  SEC-WEST            (A) =  82.81      82.23  (  1)      7      82.51  (  2)
   2  PAC-12(NORTH)       (A) =  82.36      81.62  (  2)      6      82.87  (  1)
   3  PAC-12(SOUTH)       (A) =  81.86      81.09  (  3)      6      81.83  (  3)
   4  SEC-EAST            (A) =  78.45      78.01  (  4)      7      78.40  (  4)
   5  BIG 12              (A) =  75.62      75.83  (  5)     10      75.48  (  5)
   6  ACC-COASTAL         (A) =  75.30      74.55  (  8)      7      74.86  (  7)
   7  BIG TEN-LEGENDS     (A) =  74.48      75.11  (  7)      6      74.95  (  6)
   8  BIG TEN-LEADERS     (A) =  73.43      73.42  (  9)      6      73.27  (  8)
   9  ACC-ATLANTIC        (A) =  73.11      75.35  (  6)      7      72.39  (  9)

 

Just taking a look at the average of the "JEFF SAGARIN RATINGS" for each conference/division as shown above. 

 

Looks to mean that the Big Ten is equal to the ACC and slightly bellow the SEC-East. 

 

The elite conferences are the SEC-West and the Pac-12. 

 

Not as clear cut as people want to make it out to seem. 

post #284 of 692
I tend to think there just aren't any strong conferences. The pac 12 seems to beat up on the crappy teams then split with each other. The same with the sec except that they usually have one team that separates themself.

The top of each conference is really good, and the bottom really bad. I'm not sure that there's a significant difference among them. If the sec kicked out the crappy teams and played as 1 division that might change, but the sec powerhouses don't play each other enough.
post #285 of 692

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--statement-from-accuser-s-family-raises-questions-about-police-conduct-in-jameis-winston-case-203041467.html

 

Just wow if the investigation proves a cover up by the police and the FSU university. 

 

Here's the one that might sink the football program,

 

Quote:
 Why was the Florida State University Police Department given a copy of the police report after it was determined they did not have jurisdiction, especially given the fact that Winston's attorney represents the Florida State University football team and they have a clear conflict of interest?"

 

So you have an attorney who is paid by the Florida State University to represent Winston. 1) MAJOR CONFLICT OF INTEREST. 2) If this attorney was part of the cover up, then it should bring in the NCAA into the picture because now the institution was protecting a football player who committed a felony. This parallels directly with Penn State. 

 

If this is true, then the NCAA should bring down the hammer on FSU like they did on Penn State. 

 

Well just a lot of what-ifs right now. We'll see how the legal process plays out. 

 

My question is, if it gets bad, and Winston isn't indited before the NC game, but it looks like he will sometime after. Does FSU hold him out for fear of having the NC stripped from them later on, if they happen to win, and if he happens to be charged with a felony? Does FSU want that type of PR?

post #286 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--statement-from-accuser-s-family-raises-questions-about-police-conduct-in-jameis-winston-case-203041467.html

 

Just wow if the investigation proves a cover up by the police and the FSU university.

 

Here's the one that might sink the football program,

 

So you have an attorney who is paid by the Florida State University to represent Winston. 1) MAJOR CONFLICT OF INTEREST. 2) If this attorney was part of the cover up, then it should bring in the NCAA into the picture because now the institution was protecting a football player who committed a felony.

 

Do we have any proof that Jansen is being paid by FSU?  From his website it appears he's just the local gunslinger that FSU athletes all know about.  http://www.jansenlawoffice.com/Attorney-Profile.aspx  The article seems to confirm this--

Quote:

Alerting Jansen – the go-to lawyer for Florida State football players in trouble with the law

 

 

 

Other quotes from the article--

 

Quote:

statement released to the Times by Patricia Carroll, the unnamed alleged victim's family attorney.  "Let me say this: There's an ongoing investigation and the victim is cooperating with the State Attorney's office in this matter," Carroll told Yahoo Sports. "There will be no further comment. The statement speaks for itself and that's all the family is willing to say at this time."

 

I think this says a lot about how much stock we can put into this.  Statement made by an attorney hired by a currently anonymous victim.

 

Quote:

"When the [victim’s family] attorney contacted Detective [Scott] Angulo immediately after Winston was identified, Detective Angulo told the attorney that Tallahassee was a big football town and the victim needs to think long and hard before proceeding against him because she will be raked over the coals and her life will be made miserable."

 

This is a 100% true statement.  Right or wrong, the statement in itself is true--and I think that more often than not a police investigator will point this out WHEN TALKING TO THE ATTORNEY OR REPRESENTATIVE.  Note it doesn't say that he said this to the victim, i.e. the allegation isn't that the detective pressured the victim not to report or proceed.  When professionals speak to other professionals about these things, they tend to be matter of fact.  I used to have frank discussions all the time with criminal investigators about how crappy the Government's case was in these types of sex assault cases.  I would never tell the victim that, and once we make the decision to go to court--that's it.  We're in.

 

 

Quote:

Delays in collecting DNA samples and conducting interviews.

 

Pretty standard.  I've seen sex assault cases in some states take more than a year just for the State to decide they don't have enough to investigate.  DNA takes about 6-12 months to get back in routine investigations (i.e. the defendant isn't sitting in jail awaiting trial).

 

 

Quote:

At the end of the family statement are six questions:

 

"1. If Winston's attorney was aware of the case in February 2013, why didn't Detective Angulo collect DNA evidence, interview Winston, and conduct a proper investigation.

 

Do we know for sure that Tallahassee PD contacted Jansen first?  That doesn't even make any sense if he's a private attorney.  They can't contact an attorney unless that attorney already representes the accused person.  Police don't just call up random attorneys and say "some dude committed a crime--thought you'd want to know..."  More likely Winston already knew she had complained, he retained Jansen, and Jansen called the detective to let him know Winston was represented.  That would also explain why the police didn't question Winston.  Once he's represented, you don't just do a typical suspect interview.  You have to get overwhelming proof and leave the suspect no choice but to work a deal.

 

Quote:

"2. Why did it take Detective Angulo four months to verbally inform the family of the blood work results?

 

Four months from when the blood was taken, or four months after the results were received?  Police detectives don't just pick up the phone and call the victim every time they get a piece of information relevant to a case.  More likely they reach out to the victim when they need to clarify some point in her statement.  What would be really surprising is a victim waiting four months before calling the detective--especially if she's serious about pushing her case.  More often than not it's the victim pestering the investigator.

 

Quote:
"3. Why was Winston not listed as the suspect in the police report once he was identified in early January?

 

Again a pretty vague question.  Could be as simple as they didn't have enough information to list him as the suspect in the initial report (which usually has very little information) and they hadn't drafted any supplementals yet.

 

Quote:
"4. Why is it being represented in the press that the victim was intoxicated when Detective Angulo told the family that the victim was not intoxicated based on the blood work?

 

Blood tests not showing alcohol is not the same as not intoxicated.  How much time passed between the assault and the blood draw?  She could have been .15 at midnight and .04 at 0700 the next morning.  Also, it could be helpful to the state's case if she was intoxicated (incapable of giving consent), there is plenty of evidence that she drank, and the blood tests don't preclude intoxication at the time of assault.  And who is "representing" anything in the press?  Certainly doubt that the TPD is sharing their case file with the local papers.

 

Quote:

"5. Why didn't Detective Angulo or his superiors inform the State Attorney of the crime before the media sought a copy of the police report 11 months after the crime?

 

Is it normal to inform the State Attorney before the investigation is complete?  I don't know how it works in Tallahassee.  It is very normal for Sex Asslt investigations to take a year, and it's also very normal for the State Attorney to do nothing about a crime prior to the investigation being complete.

 

Quote:

"6. Why was the Florida State University Police Department given a copy of the police report after it was determined they did not have jurisdiction, especially given the fact that Winston's attorney represents the Florida State University football team and they have a clear conflict of interest?" 

 

Pretty normal for police departments to share information.  Tallahassee PD may have asked FSU PD to do some canvassing interviews, and FSU PD may have required a copy of the TPD initial report in order for them to "open" a case.  Police Departments are very strict about the rules for when they can "open" an investigation.  Most of those rules exist to prevent Police Detectives from just opening any old investigation against any old person as a form of harassment.

 

And again, does Jansen represent FSU, or do a lot of FSU athletes hire Jensen when they get into trouble.  There is a huge difference.

 

And the FSU PD can never be in "conflict" with the TPD.  Even if the FSU Athletic Department has an attorney, I'm having a really hard time seeing how two law enforcement agencies cooperating with one another can create a conflict.

 

 

I have ZERO information about this case, but I know how criminal investigations and prosecutions work.  This article makes NO SENSE--in effect it says nothing.  The fact that it's a prepared statement by a lawyer who represents an anonymous person, and raises a lot of "potential concerns" in an area where a huge lawsuit/settlement could be in play, is pretty telling for me.

 

(I know there's currently no discussion AFAIK about a lawsuit, but that's usually why victims get lawyers in these types of cases.)

post #287 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--statement-from-accuser-s-family-raises-questions-about-police-conduct-in-jameis-winston-case-203041467.html

Just wow if the investigation proves a cover up by the police and the FSU university. 

Here's the one that might sink the football program,


So you have an attorney who is paid by the Florida State University to represent Winston. 1) MAJOR CONFLICT OF INTEREST. 2) If this attorney was part of the cover up, then it should bring in the NCAA into the picture because now the institution was protecting a football player who committed a felony. This parallels directly with Penn State. 

If this is true, then the NCAA should bring down the hammer on FSU like they did on Penn State. 

Well just a lot of what-ifs right now. We'll see how the legal process plays out. 

My question is, if it gets bad, and Winston isn't indited before the NC game, but it looks like he will sometime after. Does FSU hold him out for fear of having the NC stripped from them later on, if they happen to win, and if he happens to be charged with a felony? Does FSU want that type of PR?

If you can't beat em on the field, let's sling some mud and see what sticks, huh?
post #288 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

I tend to think there just aren't any strong conferences. The pac 12 seems to beat up on the crappy teams then split with each other. The same with the sec except that they usually have one team that separates themself.

The top of each conference is really good, and the bottom really bad. I'm not sure that there's a significant difference among them. If the sec kicked out the crappy teams and played as 1 division that might change, but the sec powerhouses don't play each other enough.

Yeah, I tend to think this way as well.  Like k-troop points out ... the logic behind the conference rankings is circular because they all (mostly) just play each other.  All of the conferences are likely fairly close to each other in overall strength.  If Alabama and Oregon swapped places, there's a good chance that they'd both still do quite well in their new conferences.  Same with FSU, Baylor and OSU.

 

Likewise, swap Kentucky, Cal and Purdue, and they are all still going to suck.

 

Parity in college football isn't nearly what it is in the NFL, but there are a lot of good teams all over the place that compete with others.

 

----------------------------------

 

I'm choosing to follow Colin Cowherd's lead and ignore the Winston "story" until the its not so "alleged."

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