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2013 NCAA College Football - Page 28

post #487 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by k-troop View Post
 

 

True.  Auburn lost to #15 ranked LSU.  Bama lost to #3 ranked Auburn.  And Mizzou lost to #8 ranked SoCar.  And those are all end-of-season rankings.  All three teams lost to other SEC teams ranked higher than any opponent OSU has faced, and with better resumes than OSU.

 

So it's one thing to say just win, but what does that mean when "winning" isn't a leveling achievement?

 

Again, the BCS is probably getting it wrong this year.  But I'm not arguing that the BCS needs to be changed.  I don't care if OSU vs. FSU is a true national championship game.  It's going to be a good game.  And the discussion that gets us there is even better than that.

 

This is where we fundamentally disagree, and I guess with GD as well.  I don't think the regular season is fun for a variety of reasons.  The #1 is the fact that the majority of colleges out there will lose their chance at a N.C. once they lose their first game.  For example, Tennessee plays Florida in week 3.  In their heyday the loser of that game lost all hopes of making it to the big game.  If Strength of Schedule shouldn't be a factor or we shouldn't discredit a team based on who they play, then what incentive is there for quality teams to play each other?  This makes it to where we generally only get to see really high quality match-ups if they are in the same conference and forced to play (Auburn/Bama). 

 

Everyone here agrees that the Auburn/Bama match-up was a great game and had significant impact because it was basically a win or go home type match-up.  Instead of seeing 1 or 2 of those type match-ups a year, outside the N.C. game, I want to see several of them.  That is why I am so for maybe a 16 team playoff.  Right now on the first Saturday of the playoffs we would have the following:

 

Top 16

 

FSU vs Central Florida

 

Ohio State vs LSU (FUN)

 

Auburn vs North Illinois (undefeated and this allows them their only chance at getting to the N.C.)

 

Alabama vs Clemson (FUN)

 

Missouri vs Oregon (FUN)

 

Oklahoma St vs Arizona St (FUN)

 

Stanford vs Michigan St (FUN)

 

Baylor vs South Carolina (FUN)

 

In just one Saturday look at the caliber of match-ups that would take place in win or go home scenarios similar to Bama/Auburn.

 

Second Saturday (Assuming no upsets)

 

FSU vs South Carolina

 

Ohio St vs Stanford

 

Auburn vs Oklahoma St

 

Alabama vs Missiouri

 

Again, 4 high quality match-ups in win or go home situations.

 

3rd Saturday

 

FSU vs Alabama

 

Ohio St vs Auburn

 

Then the N.C. game.

 

This is what I want to see.  I want to see the best playing the best and see high quality football.

post #488 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by SloverUT View Post
 

 

Everyone here agrees that the Auburn/Bama match-up was a great game and had significant impact because it was basically a win or go home type match-up.  Instead of seeing 1 or 2 of those type match-ups a year, outside the N.C. game, I want to see several of them.

I don't think you've been paying very close attention this year then.  There HAVE already been several of those matchups.

 

So far this season, we have seen:

 

8th ranked team vs. 5th ranked team

1 vs. 6

9 vs. 6

5 vs. 3

3 vs. 7

6 vs. 10

5 vs. 3

10 vs. 4

1 vs. 4

 

Not to mention, a myriad of other games involving ranked teams, including as an example:  11 vs. 6, 13 vs. 9, 3 vs. 12, 1 vs. 13.  And coming this weekend, 5 vs. 3, 7 vs. 11 and 2 vs. 10.

 

If you can't get excited week in and week out over these types of games, then I can't help you.  :)

post #489 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

I don't think you've been paying very close attention this year then.  There HAVE already been several of those matchups.

 

So far this season, we have seen:

 

8th ranked team vs. 5th ranked team

1 vs. 6

9 vs. 6

5 vs. 3

3 vs. 7

6 vs. 10

5 vs. 3

10 vs. 4

1 vs. 4

 

Not to mention, a myriad of other games involving ranked teams, including as an example:  11 vs. 6, 13 vs. 9, 3 vs. 12, 1 vs. 13.  And coming this weekend, 5 vs. 3, 7 vs. 11 and 2 vs. 10.

 

If you can't get excited week in and week out over these types of games, then I can't help you.  :)

 

So in the examples you just posted that is 16 ranked match-ups  ( I am sure that isn't every ranked match) over a 15 week period.  In the playoff example I provided we get that in a two week period with an added incentive of win or your season is over literally. 

 

Nor should I ignore that some of these ranked matches were teams playing that were severely over-hyped (Florida for example) and not what their rankings were after a full regular season, as would be the case during the playoffs.

 

I also never said these games don't excite me.  The regular season as a whole isn't my favorite but there are obviously some good games that were played.  It simply doesn't interest me as much as a playoff system would.

 

While there were some good games this year, there was also a Saturday were the match-ups were so poor that en ESPN Game Day crew went to a North Dakota State game..

 

Side Note: The argument that the regular season wouldn't mean as much is odd to me based on your last post.  Even with the playoff system at the end all of those ranked match-ups would have still taken place.

post #490 of 692

I'm surprised to hear that a staunch Tennessee fan like Slover doesn't like the regular season; that college football is only about the race for a national championship.  That's too bad for him. I doubt there are a lot of Tennessee fans who would agree.

 

Maybe all the jumping around from conference to conference by so many teams has lessened the historical significance of some team matchups. But for me, a weekend game of Washington-Oregon is a highlight regardless of each team's record.  They have a long history of tough games. Even if each team is mediocre (hasn't happened lately), the game is still hard-fought and fun to watch. I would guess the Iron Bowl is just as important to Auburn and Bama fans regardless of each team's record.  Same for USC-UCLA, Michigan-OSU, Texas-Oklahoma, etc.

 

And isn't that what college football should be? Let's face it, most of our teams are NOT going to be national champions this year. That doesn't diminish the great enjoyment that we should all get out of rooting for our teams. I don't get a chance to see my team live anymore, but I still fondly remember the great fun of college football on a Saturday afternoon (when all the games were on Saturday afternoons!). It isn't about who is #1 in what computer or what poll, it's about the game itself. Maybe I'm being naive, but I hope that part of the game stays with us.

post #491 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post
 

I'm surprised to hear that a staunch Tennessee fan like Slover doesn't like the regular season; that college football is only about the race for a national championship.  That's too bad for him. I doubt there are a lot of Tennessee fans who would agree.

 

Maybe all the jumping around from conference to conference by so many teams has lessened the historical significance of some team matchups. But for me, a weekend game of Washington-Oregon is a highlight regardless of each team's record.  They have a long history of tough games. Even if each team is mediocre (hasn't happened lately), the game is still hard-fought and fun to watch. I would guess the Iron Bowl is just as important to Auburn and Bama fans regardless of each team's record.  Same for USC-UCLA, Michigan-OSU, Texas-Oklahoma, etc.

 

And isn't that what college football should be? Let's face it, most of our teams are NOT going to be national champions this year. That doesn't diminish the great enjoyment that we should all get out of rooting for our teams. I don't get a chance to see my team live anymore, but I still fondly remember the great fun of college football on a Saturday afternoon (when all the games were on Saturday afternoons!). It isn't about who is #1 in what computer or what poll, it's about the game itself. Maybe I'm being naive, but I hope that part of the game stays with us.


It isn't to bad for me.  If there is a playoff at the end of the regular season it doesn't negate these games.


Tennessee will still play Alabama in October

Washington will still play Oregon

Oregon will still play Stanford

Auburn/Bama will still play in the Iron Bowl

USC will still play UCLA

Michigan will still play OSU

and Texas will still play Oklahoma.

 

And you are right, it isn't about who is #1 in a computer poll or a panel of votes.  It should be who wins out on the field in a playoff :).

 

The Tennessee/Alabama game is a perfect example.  Tennessee was no where close to being even mentioned in the race for a national championship but the Bama/TN game is still fun and looked forward to every year.  The fact that it wasn't two ranked teams going at it didn't diminish the game for me.  Therefore, these games will still be fun for me if there is a playoff at the end of the year as well, even if TN isn't even in that picture either. To be more short, no traditional rivalry games will disappear.

 

I

post #492 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by SloverUT View Post
 

Side Note: The argument that the regular season wouldn't mean as much is odd to me based on your last post.  Even with the playoff system at the end all of those ranked match-ups would have still taken place.

Yes, they would still take place, but they couldn't possibly mean as much because ...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloverUT View Post
 

In the playoff example I provided we get that in a two week period with an added incentive of win or your season is over literally.

The bold is already true about all of those matchups when they occur during the regular season.  Barring a couple of losses this weekend, Alabama is not going to play for the title.  In an 8 or 16 team playoff scenario, their loss last weekend would have meant virtually nothing to them.  It would have simply been a "OK, now we know what we need to work on before the 'real' games being" situation.  That is why the regular season would mean less if/when you go to an 8 or more team playoff.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloverUT View Post
 

Nor should I ignore that some of these ranked matches were teams playing that were severely over-hyped (Florida for example) and not what their rankings were after a full regular season, as would be the case during the playoffs.

Florida was not included in any of the nine top-10 matchups I mentioned, or the 4 other matchups either.  The only team that you could argue was "severely" over-hyped in any of those matchups was Miami.  They were ranked 7th in week 10 and have since dropped out of the Top 25 altogether.  (Although they are one of the first 2 or 3 teams in the "others" section of the rankings, so its not like we're talking about a losing team here)  Otherwise, every other team in those matchups is still currently ranked.

 

And I wasn't arguing that a playoff wouldn't be exciting.  I was simply saying that there have been a lot of exciting high caliber matchups during the year.  You implied that Alabama-Auburn was the only great game this year, and that we only see "1 or 2 matchups like this every year."  I'm showing you that that is absolutely not true.

 

------------------------------

 

Since this thread has morphed into a postseason/bowls/playoffs discussion I figured I'd post this nonsense ... http://thesandtrap.com/t/69880/2013-nfl-football/330_30#post_925921 ... in the NFL thread.  I linked it here, though, because it applies to college as well.  Also ... I'm a dork.


Edited by Golfingdad - 12/3/13 at 7:34pm
post #493 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Yes, they would still take place, but they couldn't possibly mean as much because ...

 

The bold is already true about all of those matchups when they occur during the regular season.  Barring a couple of losses this weekend, Alabama is not going to play for the title.  In an 8 or 16 team playoff scenario, their loss last weekend would have meant virtually nothing to them.  It would have simply been a "OK, now we know what we need to work on before the 'real' games being" situation.  That is why the regular season would mean less if/when you go to an 8 or more team playoff.

 

Florida was not included in any of the nine top-10 matchups I mentioned, or the 4 other matchups either.  The only team that you could argue was "severely" over-hyped in any of those matchups was Miami.  They were ranked 7th in week 10 and have since dropped out of the Top 25 altogether.  (Although they are one of the first 2 or 3 teams in the "others" section of the rankings, so its not like we're talking about a losing team here)  Otherwise, every other team in those matchups is still currently ranked.

 

And I wasn't arguing that a playoff wouldn't be exciting.  I was simply saying that there have been a lot of exciting high caliber matchups during the year.  You implied that Alabama-Auburn was the only great game this year, and that we only see "1 or 2 matchups like this every year."  I'm showing you that that is absolutely not true.

 

------------------------------

 

Since this thread has morphed into a postseason/bowls/playoffs discussion I figured I'd post this nonsense ... http://thesandtrap.com/t/69880/2013-nfl-football/330_30#post_925921 ... in the NFL thread.  I linked it here, though, because it applies to college as well.  Also ... I'm a dork.

 

Well we will have to agree to disagree.  I do not think having a playoff takes away from the regular season games whatsoever.  Tennessee vs Alabama is still a great traditional game even when TN sucks as they currently do.  Oregon/Stanford is still a fun game even if they aren't vying for a N.C. spot.  Ohio St/Michigan is still a fun game even if one isn't in the race.

 

I didn't imply that Auburn/Alabama was the only great game this year.   I implied that over the course of a 15 week period there isn't enough match-ups of that caliber.  Ohio State has played one decent caliber team thus  far against Wisconsin.  Florida State has played one meaningful game thus far against Clemson, since Florida/Miami tanked.  Alabama has played two good caliber games against A & M/Auburn, and maybe you count LSU.  Mizzou has played South Carolina and A & M.  Auburn has played Bama/LSU/A & M.

 

So between the top 5 current ranked teams I count 10-11 "good", not all "great" caliber match-ups out of the 60 games they have played. 

 

As far as "gearing up" for the next game, well there is possibly a chance that happens in our current scenario.  If either Ohio State or FSU lose it is possible that Alabama could still get into the N.C. game and thus would have made the Auburn/Alabama game less relevant, but still a great game.

 

Most importantly though, even with a playoff, these games still would have taken place and they are still important.  Even if you have 4, 8 , or 16 team playoff you still have to make sure you are in that 16 and I think this creates room for even more good games as it gives more teams a chance to be in the "race" and thus make a lot more games more meaningful.  For example, in the last weekend all that really mattered is whether FSU, Alabama, or OSU lost.  If there was a 16 playoff then there would have been a lot of games that mattered because a loss by teams in the top 16 and wins by those outside of it could have changed up the rankings quite a bit.


Edited by SloverUT - 12/3/13 at 8:18pm
post #494 of 692

Either way, I think this is a discussion I would rather have over a round of :beer: so I can pound my fist into the table to exaggerate my points!

post #495 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by SloverUT View Post
 

Either way, I think this is a discussion I would rather have over a round of :beer: so I can pound my fist into the table to exaggerate my points!

I don't know. Unless things have changed since the mid 70s the main thing I remember from college in Tennessee was that beer and talking football don't mix well in Knoxville. I even got in one fight just from walking in the door of The Foxy Lady wearing an Alabama cap. :beer:

 

Better to talk football out of arms reach.

 

Although they did have nickel beer night on Monday night at The Foxy Lady so it was worth it as long as we didn't have an early Tuesday class.

post #496 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 

I don't know. Unless things have changed since the mid 70s the main thing I remember from college in Tennessee was that beer and talking football don't mix well in Knoxville. I even got in one fight just from walking in the door of The Foxy Lady wearing an Alabama cap. :beer:

 

Better to talk football out of arms reach.

 

Although they did have nickel beer night on Monday night at The Foxy Lady so it was worth it as long as we didn't have an early Tuesday class.


Wait a second.... You went to college at Tennessee? I thought you played for Alabama. At least, from the many times you use "we" when referring to the Tide, I thought you were on the team.

post #497 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 

I don't know. Unless things have changed since the mid 70s the main thing I remember from college in Tennessee was that beer and talking football don't mix well in Knoxville. I even got in one fight just from walking in the door of The Foxy Lady wearing an Alabama cap. :beer:

 

Better to talk football out of arms reach.

 

Although they did have nickel beer night on Monday night at The Foxy Lady so it was worth it as long as we didn't have an early Tuesday class.

 

Too bad that punch didn't make you a bit wiser.  You may have turned into a Tennessee fan!

post #498 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post
 


Wait a second.... You went to college at Tennessee? I thought you played for Alabama. At least, from the many times you use "we" when referring to the Tide, I thought you were on the team.


Maybe other fans don't refer to their team as "we" but they certainly do everywhere I've ever lived...And not just in Alabama. When I lived in Missouri and somebody came in the break room after listening to the Cardinals game they said "we won" and I'm pretty sure they weren't in the game.

 

I did go to school at Alabama but I also went to school close to Knoxville at Hiwassee College, but not at Tennessee.

post #499 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 


Maybe other fans don't refer to their team as "we" but they certainly do everywhere I've ever lived...And not just in Alabama. When I lived in Missouri and somebody came in the break room after listening to the Cardinals game they said "we won" and I'm pretty sure they weren't in the game.

 

I did go to school at Alabama but I also went to school close to Knoxville at Hiwassee College, but not at Tennessee.


I was just messing around a little bit. I know that lots of people feel they are part of a team, and use "we" instead of "they". Usually when someone I know says "we won" I'll ask what position they played. Kind of throws them off for a minute.

post #500 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post
 


I was just messing around a little bit. I know that lots of people feel they are part of a team, and use "we" instead of "they". Usually when someone I know says "we won" I'll ask what position they played. Kind of throws them off for a minute.


I like the fans around here that say "we" won but "they" lost.

 

I live right in the corner of the state so there are about equal amounts of Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, and Tennessee "fans" around here. How many of each just depends on who is winning. I think some of them actually have four caps so they are ready for whatever happens.

post #501 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by SloverUT View Post
 

 

Well we will have to agree to disagree.  I do not think having a playoff takes away from the regular season games whatsoever.  Tennessee vs Alabama is still a great traditional game even when TN sucks as they currently do.  Oregon/Stanford is still a fun game even if they aren't vying for a N.C. spot.  Ohio St/Michigan is still a fun game even if one isn't in the race.

 

I didn't imply that Auburn/Alabama was the only great game this year.   I implied that over the course of a 15 week period there isn't enough match-ups of that caliber.  Ohio State has played one decent caliber team thus  far against Wisconsin.  Florida State has played one meaningful game thus far against Clemson, since Florida/Miami tanked.  Alabama has played two good caliber games against A & M/Auburn, and maybe you count LSU.  Mizzou has played South Carolina and A & M.  Auburn has played Bama/LSU/A & M.

 

So between the top 5 current ranked teams I count 10-11 "good", not all "great" caliber match-ups out of the 60 games they have played. 

 

As far as "gearing up" for the next game, well there is possibly a chance that happens in our current scenario.  If either Ohio State or FSU lose it is possible that Alabama could still get into the N.C. game and thus would have made the Auburn/Alabama game less relevant, but still a great game.

 

Most importantly though, even with a playoff, these games still would have taken place and they are still important.  Even if you have 4, 8 , or 16 team playoff you still have to make sure you are in that 16 and I think this creates room for even more good games as it gives more teams a chance to be in the "race" and thus make a lot more games more meaningful.  For example, in the last weekend all that really mattered is whether FSU, Alabama, or OSU lost.  If there was a 16 playoff then there would have been a lot of games that mattered because a loss by teams in the top 16 and wins by those outside of it could have changed up the rankings quite a bit.

Actually, I choose not to agree to disagree because it's not really a matter of opinion. ;-)  I am not saying that a playoff will render the regular season completely useless or un-fun ... I'm simply saying that it will make it LESS important.  And when you consider only the Alabama/Auburn game from last week, and the fact that it was guaranteed to virtually eliminate one team from the title hunt under current rules, and then compare that with an 8-team playoff, where it's a virtual certainty that both teams (barring a blowout) are quite likely remaining in the top 8, then it's a fact that it's less important.  It's not un-important, because after all, it's still a huge state rivalry, but it is, in terms of the postseason implications, LESS important.

 

But I totally agree that this would be funner to discuss over a round of beers ... and I'd go one step further and say it'd be funner over a round of beers along with some BBQ at a tail-gate prior to a big bowl or playoff game!! :beer:

post #502 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Actually, I choose not to agree to disagree because it's not really a matter of opinion. ;-)  I am not saying that a playoff will render the regular season completely useless or un-fun ... I'm simply saying that it will make it LESS important.  And when you consider only the Alabama/Auburn game from last week, and the fact that it was guaranteed to virtually eliminate one team from the title hunt under current rules, and then compare that with an 8-team playoff, where it's a virtual certainty that both teams (barring a blowout) are quite likely remaining in the top 8, then it's a fact that it's less important.  It's not un-important, because after all, it's still a huge state rivalry, but it is, in terms of the postseason implications, LESS important.

 

But I totally agree that this would be funner to discuss over a round of beers ... and I'd go one step further and say it'd be funner over a round of beers along with some BBQ at a tail-gate prior to a big bowl or playoff game!! :beer:

 

It isn't a fact GD, it is your opinion.  The regular season won't be less important cause there will still be games where if you don't  win you won't be in the race.  As I stated above, the playoff will only cause there to be more games where this is the fact.  As I mentioned above in last weeks game there was only three really important games despite tons being played.   The only games that mattered were OSU vs Michigan, FSU vs (forgot who they played), and Auburn vs Alabama.  If a 16 game playoff was installed, as an example, there would have been several games where if a team didn't win they wouldn't make the playoffs and thus making the games more important.  I'll take 7 or 8 important games instead of three.  I would also think it would give those teams who lose a fluker early in the season incentive to keep plugging away as there entire season wasn't shot with one loss. 

 

Not to mention the fact that a playoff system makes seasons like Northern Illinois more important considering they are undefeated and have no chance at playing in the N.C. game. 

 

A good example would be the Oregon/Oregon State game.  Other than it being an in state rivalry it wasn't a very important game.  But if there was a 16 team playoff it would have been very important to Oregon as it would have allowed them to still have a chance at the pie.  Thus my theory that the regular season would be relevant and more important for the entire season for many more teams than it is currently.

post #503 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Actually, I choose not to agree to disagree because it's not really a matter of opinion. ;-)  I am not saying that a playoff will render the regular season completely useless or un-fun ... I'm simply saying that it will make it LESS important.  And when you consider only the Alabama/Auburn game from last week, and the fact that it was guaranteed to virtually eliminate one team from the title hunt under current rules, and then compare that with an 8-team playoff, where it's a virtual certainty that both teams (barring a blowout) are quite likely remaining in the top 8, then it's a fact that it's less important.  It's not un-important, because after all, it's still a huge state rivalry, but it is, in terms of the postseason implications, LESS important.

 

But I totally agree that this would be funner to discuss over a round of beers ... and I'd go one step further and say it'd be funner over a round of beers along with some BBQ at a tail-gate prior to a big bowl or playoff game!! :beer:

 

I agree. Would the Auburn-Alabama game be so watched on a national scale, with such intensity if it didn't have the implication it did on Saturday, I don't think it would have. .

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloverUT View Post

 

A good example would be the Oregon/Oregon State game.  Other than it being an in state rivalry it wasn't a very important game.  But if there was a 16 team playoff it would have been very important to Oregon as it would have allowed them to still have a chance at the pie.  Thus my theory that the regular season would be relevant and more important for the entire season for many more teams than it is currently.

 

Would it mean more important to the players, maybe. If Oregon can't get up for a rivalry game, then that is sad. Still, when we are talking about overall excitement on the media, nationally. Would OSU fans be tuned into the Auburn game if it didn't matter to them going to the NC game or not. I can see your side of it, but it doesn't have the weight of Golfingdad's side. 

post #504 of 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by SloverUT View Post
 

It isn't a fact GD, it is your opinion.  The regular season won't be less important cause there will still be games where if you don't  win you won't be in the race.

 

I think it's closer to fact than opinion, but the facts don't necessarily agree with either of you.

 

There will be some of those games, yes, but at the same time Alabama could have lost to Auburn like they did and if they still make the playoffs, that game didn't completely end their title run.

 

On the flip side, the regular season will be more important to teams that are outside the top few spots, because they'll want to make sure they get into the top eight or 16 or whatever - I don't care one bit about college sports - so their games will matter when normally they'd know from the outset that they're not going to be competing for a spot in the top two.

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