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Is it better to play fast or play by the rules? - Page 6

Poll Results: Is it better to play fast or play by the rules?

 
  • 56% (21)
    Play Fast
  • 43% (16)
    Play by the Rules
37 Total Votes  
post #91 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

Nobody, not even Erik, cares how you keep score with your buddies.  We do care about how fast you play, how you comport yourself on the course, and how you handle the rules of etiquette.  Those things have the potential to impact our enjoyment of the game even when we aren't in your group, so how you deal with them is important.  After that, if you want to play your own game that's similar to golf, have at it.  Just let us do the same with golf by the rules. 

I agree with this comment.  People who play by the rules are not elitists and don't care if others don't play by the rules or not.  It certainly has never bothered me when playing partners play "winter rules", give themselves 3 foot putts, etc. (as long as there is no money on the line).  I don't like it when someone swats my ball back to me on the green because they deem it a gimme.  Seems to upset some when I ask them, politely to not do that again.  Seems to me that the problem is the other way, that people who play by some set of "modified rules" object to those that don't.

post #92 of 110

Thursday league I hit a wayward ball and was pretty sure that it was not going to be found. So I said "maybe I should hit a provisional" since I didn't want to waste a ton of time looking for a ball I knew was a lost cause. One of the guys said "no provisionals"..... So I had to take a drop, I dropped in approximately the spot where the ball entered the long grass and played on. It bothered me, but I had no choice since nobody was going to let me follow the rules.

post #93 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghalfaire View Post

I agree with this comment.  People who play by the rules are not elitists and don't care if others don't play by the rules or not.  It certainly has never bothered me when playing partners play "winter rules", give themselves 3 foot putts, etc. (as long as there is no money on the line).  I don't like it when someone swats my ball back to me on the green because they deem it a gimme.  Seems to upset some when I ask them, politely to not do that again.  Seems to me that the problem is the other way, that people who play by some set of "modified rules" object to those that don't.

There is a lot of truth in that statement.  It makes me almost want to apologize to those I've called out for saying it's not golf if you don't play by the rules. 

 

When I picked up the game again 3 years ago after a 10 year break I had to find a new set of playing partners than I used to have.  I was surprised that no one, and I mean no one I played with observed the strict rules of golf.  Didn't bug me much and while I getting my swing groove back that first year I too would drop from OB, footwedge from behind trees etc because I didn't need to practice fancy recovery shots, I was working on good ball striking.  I would even improve my lies if I felt like it.  Not a single score was posted for HC.

 

The next year my ball striking was significantly better and I got more rigid about the rules.  That same group was taken aback the first time I teed up again after an OB drive as I stated, "It sucks hitting 3 off the tee".   Later in the round I hit a marginal shot off the tee.  They told me to take my mulligan(they all took 1 per 9 LOL).  I declined advising them that this year I'm playing by the ugly and humbling rules of golf. 

 

It was a harsh reality check for them to now see how much they have not been playing by the rules.  They didn't like it and made every excuse about how stupid the rules are.  We just agreed to disagree and continued to play together our own way.  We were good with it but it was awkward when we'd try to cut a corner on a drive(risk reward) with the perfect wind and tee placement and 2 of us would miss and go OB.  I'd hit another from the tee yet the other guy would go drop where it went OB.  Times like that put it front and center and nothing would be said, but there was an odd vibe. 

 

I'm a better player than the other 3 and when I have an off round and one of them has a great round he will beat me by 1-2 strokes and get all excited proclaiming victory.  I just laugh along and congratulate him because I really am happy that he played his best round ever even if it ignored lots of rules, it was still a very good round for him.  I knew he didn't beat me legit and it didn't bug me a bit.

 

We continue to all play together and have a great time still.  But now one of the others has also converted to a strict rules guys for himself and we find ourselves playing as a 2 some a lot more now.  We've talked about it and agree that it's a lot like religion.  We can't force it on someone.  All you can do is model it and make it fun.  Some will follow and others won't.  I had a lot of fun in my young womanizing and partying days.  No way you could say or do anything to get me to change.  It was a maturing process.  Those that play by their own rules in golf are having a great time playing that way.  They will change when they are ready for it....or they won't.

 

My friend that now plays by the strict rules takes more pride in his scores even though it's a lot more frustrating than his old ways.  Welcome to golf!

 

Occasionally I'll get paired with a new group on a last minute booking and after a few holes one will make a comment about me being "one of those rules guys".  I just politely tell him I play my way and he can play his way.  Some are cool and will ask questions about why I did what I did and I'll explain the rule to them.  Others hate it and can be pricks.  I just consider them insecure fools and move on with my round.

 

But I have never ever played a round with a group that didn't observe the rules and had one possess a USGA handicap.  Not once.

post #94 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post

Thursday league I hit a wayward ball and was pretty sure that it was not going to be found. So I said "maybe I should hit a provisional" since I didn't want to waste a ton of time looking for a ball I knew was a lost cause. One of the guys said "no provisionals"..... So I had to take a drop, I dropped in approximately the spot where the ball entered the long grass and played on. It bothered me, but I had no choice since nobody was going to let me follow the rules.

 

I tell that guy and the league to stuff it.  That's no league I'd ever play in.  If I'm playing anything like a competition, I'm playing it by the Rules of Golf or I'm not playing.

post #95 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

I tell that guy and the league to stuff it.  That's no league I'd ever play in.  If I'm playing anything like a competition, I'm playing it by the Rules of Golf or I'm not playing.

I play that league because it's with my father. Otherwise I wouldn't play league at all. I dislike playing just 9 hole rounds in general. Truth be told I'd have been in a better spot if I hit a provisional than from the drop so it probably hurt my score more than anything. 

post #96 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

I tell that guy and the league to stuff it.  That's no league I'd ever play in.  If I'm playing anything like a competition, I'm playing it by the Rules of Golf or I'm not playing.

I play that league because it's with my father. Otherwise I wouldn't play league at all. I dislike playing just 9 hole rounds in general. Truth be told I'd have been in a better spot if I hit a provisional than from the drop so it probably hurt my score more than anything. 

 

I agree with you about 9 hole rounds.  I always feel as if I've left something unfinished.

post #97 of 110
Quote:

Originally Posted by mvarley84 View Post
 

 

I probably play a half dozen or so rounds a year (mostly charity tourney's) where I play by USGA rules. As you can see, never submitted for a handicap. I don't need a number to measure my level of improvement, I'm not at that point of my game yet. I can feel how a round is going. Heck, if I make it to the 6th hole still using the same golf ball I know I've been driving the ball well. I've been playing since I was a youngster (played pretty much every day from 11-15), took some time off just playing rec ball, then became a little more dedicated last year (I'm 28). I've posted some good scores (I'm typically high 80's low 90's on a par 72), but have pulled out some wild rounds (both much higher and much lower). My best round ever (twice) is a 5 over 77. I was 14 the first time, playing in a local Jr tournament. The second time was this year in a charity tournament.

 

But if you are not playing by the rules all of those scores are meaningless.  How you feel you are playing is a pretty poor guide.  We have all had rounds where at the end we look at the score and are surprised we scored as well (or as poorly) as we did.  

 

Interesting that the times you play by the rules are in charity tournaments.  I guess it is different in other places, but around here almost every charity tournament is a scramble, which inherently has very little to do with the actual rules of golf.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvarley84
 
Well, according to some on this forum, if I am not following all the rules when I play, then I am not really playing "Golf", therefore I wouldn't need to submit a score for a game I wasn't really playing.

 

But the point is that you are supposed to enter every round and therefore you are supposed to play every round under the rules.  Ignoring the rules intentionally and then not posting because you didn't play by the rules is really an abuse of the handicap system.  It is inherently different than, say, going our with the intent to play a practice round with extra shots, re-positioning the ball, not necessarily putting out, etc.  But if someone is routinely playing like this then they have no business claiming to maintain a handicap.  Which you don't.  Which is good.  

post #98 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtleback View Post

 

But if you are not playing by the rules all of those scores are meaningless.  How you feel you are playing is a pretty poor guide.  We have all had rounds where at the end we look at the score and are surprised we scored as well (or as poorly) as we did.  

 

Interesting that the times you play by the rules are in charity tournaments.  I guess it is different in other places, but around here almost every charity tournament is a scramble, which inherently has very little to do with the actual rules of golf.

 

All those scores I posted are from tournaments. As I said before, I rarely keep score when I just go out to shoot a round.

 

I have played in some scrambles, but I prefer not to. Almost all of the tournaments I play in are singles stroke play....You buy into the tournament (usually $100 or so, some more expensive) and the "purse" is prizes. 

post #99 of 110
I am a little turned off by the negativity of some of these posts... If someone goes out and uses foot wedges, mulligans, and other rules breaches, I fully expect them to tell their friends that they golfed that day. I just don't see why some of us enthusiasts shun these folks so much. They golfed. Get over it.

Now if they said they played an "official" round of golf, carry a handicap based on play that wasn't by the rules, or do these things during a money game or tournament, then they should be shunned.

C'mon fellas, lighten up...
post #100 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r View Post

I am a little turned off by the negativity of some of these posts... If someone goes out and uses foot wedges, mulligans, and other rules breaches, I fully expect them to tell their friends that they golfed that day. I just don't see why some of us enthusiasts shun these folks so much. They golfed. Get over it.

Now if they said they played an "official" round of golf, carry a handicap based on play that wasn't by the rules, or do these things during a money game or tournament, then they should be shunned.

C'mon fellas, lighten up...

I don't think that anybody here has really said anything different.

 

And FWIW this thread isn't about whether or not it's golf if you ignore rules, it's about whether or not it is better to play fast or play by the rules. I think it's kind of an odd question myself because I don't see it as an either/or kind of thing... you can do both, but regardless that is what the thread is about.

post #101 of 110

I piping in for the first time without reading all the other replies.

 

Personally, I think a big part of the problem regarding slow play lies with the rules and etiquette.  They simply don't "encourage or enable" faster play.  While I think we all agree with and like playing by one set of rules, I also feel there should be some minor modification of the rules between daily/ club level play and that of higher level amateur and professional play.  These minor modifications wouldn't take away from the daily/club play, would have minimal if any impact to golfers' handicaps, and most certainly speed up play.

 

Examples:

 

Lost balls / Out of bounds:  Treat both like a lateral hazard or unplayable lie and allow only two minutes search.  So, if after searching for 2 minutes you do not find your ball, then if it most likely went out of bounds then you drop as you would have had it crossed into a lateral hazard or if the ball is lost then you drop (as if it was an unplayable lie) in the area the ball is most likely (determined by you and a fellow competitor or you and your opponent in match play) to be lost, adding the penalty stroke accordingly.  No provisional ball allowed to be played.  If the player wants to hit another from the original spot, whether it is before searching or after, that ball is then in play under stroke and distance.  Most of us amateurs will just drop after searching for two minutes.  It would probably be the rare case when one would be better off going back to the location of the previous spot and playing another ball under stroke and distance.  With ESC already being used the effect on one's posted score and eventually his/her index should be inconsequential.  The biggest impact/difference compared to high level amateur/professionals would be in an actual tournament where under rules as described above, a golfer who wins/places in because he/she hit a ball out of bounds once and then proceeded as if it was a lateral hazard as opposed to hitting another one or more out of bounds before actually getting a ball in play. 

 

Turn it is to play:  Ready golf needs to be the standard and not just something to which lip service is paid.  This also needs to apply to match play accept from the teeing ground and when both players' balls are on the green.  No instances where one plays out of turn from off the green "without permission" and holes the shot and opponent says play it over after he/she putts from a longer distance.  Under stroke play, honor on the teeing ground should still be honored for the most part, however ready golf should still be encouraged and during tournament or other competitive play, if the player with the honor is a habitual laggard and seldom if ever make his/her way to the tee box in a relatively quick manner he/she should not expect the box to be "his/her's."  My philosophy is if you have the honor, act like it by proceeding quickly to the next tee box, ready to play as soon as it's clear. 

 

Play on the Green:  Too much emphasis is placed on not stepping on someone's line.  With spike marks largely a thing of the past, way too much time is spent tiptoeing around someone else's line, marking one's ball and then in some cases moving the mark and having to move the mark back before replacing your ball and eventually playing one's stroke.  Once a player begins putting, whether based on whose turn it is, permitted by playing partners or based on agreed upon ready golf by the group, it should be the rule in stroke play to continue putting until holed out, with a one stroke penalty added for failing to do so.  With such a rule, little if any regard should be made to someone else's line, provided you don't intentionally drag your feet or do anything else to cause damage...and if you do cause damage and it's obvious you did, the damage should be repairable by you or any other golfer including the golfer in whose line you stepped before he/she plays his/her next stroke.  If a golfer caused damage on purpose and does so on a recurring basis, the current rules already address such a situation.   

post #102 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by driveshootpass View Post

I piping in for the first time without reading all the other replies.

 

Personally, I think a big part of the problem regarding slow play lies with the rules and etiquette.  They simply don't "encourage or enable" faster play.  While I think we all agree with and like playing by one set of rules, I also feel there should be some minor modification of the rules between daily/ club level play and that of higher level amateur and professional play.  These minor modifications wouldn't take away from the daily/club play, would have minimal if any impact to golfers' handicaps, and most certainly speed up play.

 

Examples:

 

Lost balls / Out of bounds:  Treat both like a lateral hazard or unplayable lie and allow only two minutes search.  So, if after searching for 2 minutes you do not find your ball, then if it most likely went out of bounds then you drop as you would have had it crossed into a lateral hazard or if the ball is lost then you drop (as if it was an unplayable lie) in the area the ball is most likely (determined by you and a fellow competitor or you and your opponent in match play) to be lost, adding the penalty stroke accordingly.  No provisional ball allowed to be played.  If the player wants to hit another from the original spot, whether it is before searching or after, that ball is then in play under stroke and distance.  Most of us amateurs will just drop after searching for two minutes.  It would probably be the rare case when one would be better off going back to the location of the previous spot and playing another ball under stroke and distance.  With ESC already being used the effect on one's posted score and eventually his/her index should be inconsequential.  The biggest impact/difference compared to high level amateur/professionals would be in an actual tournament where under rules as described above, a golfer who wins/places in because he/she hit a ball out of bounds once and then proceeded as if it was a lateral hazard as opposed to hitting another one or more out of bounds before actually getting a ball in play. 

 

Turn it is to play:  Ready golf needs to be the standard and not just something to which lip service is paid.  This also needs to apply to match play accept from the teeing ground and when both players' balls are on the green.  No instances where one plays out of turn from off the green "without permission" and holes the shot and opponent says play it over after he/she putts from a longer distance.  Under stroke play, honor on the teeing ground should still be honored for the most part, however ready golf should still be encouraged and during tournament or other competitive play, if the player with the honor is a habitual laggard and seldom if ever make his/her way to the tee box in a relatively quick manner he/she should not expect the box to be "his/her's."  My philosophy is if you have the honor, act like it by proceeding quickly to the next tee box, ready to play as soon as it's clear. 

 

Play on the Green:  Too much emphasis is placed on not stepping on someone's line.  With spike marks largely a thing of the past, way too much time is spent tiptoeing around someone else's line, marking one's ball and then in some cases moving the mark and having to move the mark back before replacing your ball and eventually playing one's stroke.  Once a player begins putting, whether based on whose turn it is, permitted by playing partners or based on agreed upon ready golf by the group, it should be the rule in stroke play to continue putting until holed out, with a one stroke penalty added for failing to do so.  With such a rule, little if any regard should be made to someone else's line, provided you don't intentionally drag your feet or do anything else to cause damage...and if you do cause damage and it's obvious you did, the damage should be repairable by you or any other golfer including the golfer in whose line you stepped before he/she plays his/her next stroke.  If a golfer caused damage on purpose and does so on a recurring basis, the current rules already address such a situation.   

 

I guess I'll be the first to say no, no, partly yes, and no.  I disagree with your main premise, and I disagree equally with 2½ of your proposals.  

 

A provisional ball takes a few seconds to play, and no rules change is necessary.  

 

Ignoring green etiquette is such a bad idea that I'm not even going to say more than that.  If you walk on my line more than once by accident, you will hear about it.

 

Ready golf is the game of the future for stroke play, and it wouldn't hurt to see it written into the rules for emphasis.  Since there is no penalty for playing out of order, it only amounts to a etiquette issue anyway.  It's really only a factor if two players on about the same line are ready to play at the same time.

 

However...  too much of match play strategy is based on the man vs. man format, and order of play works strongly into that strategy.  I dispute your feeling that it has a significant impact on pace, and if it did, the option of conceding strokes and holes will easily regain any time lost by playing in the proper order.

post #103 of 110

It's absurd to think following the rules takes more time. My experience is the only time the potential for it to happen is when someone doesn't understand the rules or willfully ignores them e.g. not playing a provisional when it would be permissible to do so only to find a ball really is lost or OB. I play often and it's not common to play into a situation that would present a rules dilemma causing delay. If anything the rules are time savers.

post #104 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post

It's absurd to think following the rules takes more time. My experience is the only time the potential for it to happen is when someone doesn't understand the rules or willfully ignores them e.g. not playing a provisional when it would be permissible to do so only to find a ball really is lost or OB. I play often and it's not common to play into a situation that would present a rules dilemma causing delay. If anything the rules are time savers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

I guess I'll be the first to say no, no, partly yes, and no.  I disagree with your main premise, and I disagree equally with 2½ of your proposals.  

A provisional ball takes a few seconds to play, and no rules change is necessary.  

Ignoring green etiquette is such a bad idea that I'm not even going to say more than that.  If you walk on my line more than once by accident, you will hear about it.


Ready golf is the game of the future for stroke play, and it wouldn't hurt to see it written into the rules for emphasis.  Since there is no penalty for playing out of order, it only amounts to a etiquette issue anyway.  It's really only a factor if two players on about the same line are ready to play at the same time.


However...  too much of match play strategy is based on the man vs. man format, and order of play works strongly into that strategy.  I dispute your feeling that it has a significant impact on pace, and if it did, the option of conceding strokes and holes will easily regain any time lost by playing in the proper order.

Of course, had driveshootpass taken a few minutes to familiarize himself with the 100 posts prior to his, he'd have seen much of this..... a2_wink.gif
post #105 of 110

I'm confused... Can't we do both?

post #106 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by WUTiger View Post

I'm confused... Can't we do both?

 

Agreed, the two shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

post #107 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by WUTiger View Post

I'm confused... Can't we do both?

No, because there are a bazillion extraordinary situations being tossed around that may happen once in a lifetime, if ever that require rules modifications. It seems every time this comes up the descriptions of these unusual, lengthy scenarios get more and more fantastic. I must not be golfing correctly with my once every third round or so mundane drops and provisional balls.

post #108 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by WUTiger View Post

I'm confused... Can't we do both?

 

That conclusion was reached 2 weeks ago when this thread was still fresh.  a2_wink.gif

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