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davedove
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First, let me state that I am not a great player.  I probably average a double bogey on each hole.  But let me describe what happened to me yesterday.  I went out to grab a round by myself in the afternoon.  All along the back nine play was horribly slow.  One foursome just took forever to play their shots.  I caught the twosome in front of me and we wound up finishing the course together, but were constantly waiting for this foursome to finish.  Meanwhile, we began to notice the backup behind us.

Let me describe a normal hole for this foursome:

We would watch a player squat and read his line from behind his ball mark.

He would get up and move to the far side of the hole, squat and read his line from that direction.

Then he would replace his ball on the green, only to go behind the ball to squat and read the line again.

He would take a couple of practice swings with the putter behind the ball, squat and read again.

Finally, he would walk up to the ball and address it.

After a long time over the ball, he would finally make his shot.

He overshoots the hole by twenty feet!

Repeat!!!!

Like I said, I'm not a great player, but I can move along fairly quickly.  And I don't mind players taking a little longer on their shot, if they make a good shot.  But it irritates me to know end when players go through this long process only to hit a crappy shot.  i feel they would be better off just walking up and hitting the ball.  They certainly couldn't miss much worse!

I'm new to posting here, but I've been reading all these threads about pace of play, and it seems to me that getting players to just hit their balls would speed things up considerably.

To finish the story, the course I played ends with a par 3 hole.  While we waited for this group to finish, there were four other groups backed up waiting for them.  A good marshal would have helped, but this is just a local course and doesn't even have marshals.

After I finished the hole, my car was nearby, so I could watch the groups following me.  Three groups shot and finished that hole in the same time it took that one group to finish it!  AAARGH!!!

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I find that most people who spend lots of time reading a putt miss. Unless I'm within 10 ft or so I don't think about making it, I just focus on good speed for an easy 2nd putt. This typically leads to exactly that or a surprise 1 putt.

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Originally Posted by davedove

Let me describe a normal hole for this foursome:

We would watch a player squat and read his line from behind his ball mark.

He would get up and move to the far side of the hole, squat and read his line from that direction.

Then he would replace his ball on the green, only to go behind the ball to squat and read the line again.

He would take a couple of practice swings with the putter behind the ball, squat and read again.

Finally, he would walk up to the ball and address it.

After a long time over the ball, he would finally make his shot.

He overshoots the hole by twenty feet!

Repeat!!!!

I'm with you on this.  It sounds like you've read a lot of the threads on here and everybody has different opinions on what causes slow play and who's to blame, as well.  Certainly, on more difficult courses, people can slow things down a lot by playing poorly and losing (and spending time looking for) lots of balls.  But what you describe is what I see most often.

When play is slow, rarely does it happen where you can see the offending group.  Just like the car accidents on the freeway, it usually happened way ahead of you and long ago, so you only deal with the aftermath.  But on the occasions that I am able to see open holes in front of the group in front of me, it seems like they are those guys that play on the green exactly as they [think they] do on TV.  Everybody  marks, then stands around while one guy goes through his routine, and after he misses, he has to mark because he's not away anymore (argh!!), and the process is repeated, usually, 8-10 times.

I played behind a group that did this last week.  I couldn't complain too much because they played fast enough tee to green to keep up, but it was still aggravating standing in the fairway twiddling my thumbs every hole and watching this ridiculous process.

If they haven't already made a "While we're young" commercial suggesting that once it's you turn to start putting, you go until you finish (or will have to stand in someones line) then they should!

Originally Posted by davedove

... but this is just a local course ...

Aren't they all?

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Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Aren't they all?

I think the non-local ones have better pace of play.  It does seem to be only locals that complain about it.

-Matt-

"does it still count as a hit fairway if it is the next one over"

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Average golfers (or worse) stalking the green trying to read a putt when they haven't the foggiest notion what to look for is one of the worst legacies handed down from the Tour.  They would garner as much information just standing behind the ball and giving it a good look, then stepping up and hitting the damn thing.  I consider myself a fairly decent putter, and the only time I ever had trouble is when I decided that I was good enough to look from both sides of the hole.  All that usually did was confuse the issue.  Now I'm back to just looking from behind the ball and going with it.

If I have a particularly tricky putt and I have time while others are playing, I may give it a quick look from the far side of the hole, but that's a rare case.  I won't waste time doing it while others in my group or in the fairway are waiting.  The only good thing I ever picked up from a Nike ad - "Just do it!"

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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Agreed.  With AimPoint, I don't even squat down half the time.  I take the side read for elevation as I approach the green and most times get my midpoint read before anyone else is even ready. If I already have my read, I stand behind my ball while others are putting and pick my line.  Then when it is my turn, I just walk up to the ball, line up and putt with no practice strokes.  I find that practice strokes don't help my speed very much, so I stopped doing them.  I will do some practice strokes when others are getting ready at times just to stay loose.

Scott

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Originally Posted by boogielicious

Agreed.  With AimPoint, I don't even squat down half the time.  I take the side read for elevation as I approach the green and most times get my midpoint read before anyone else is even ready. If I already have my read, I stand behind my ball while others are putting and pick my line.  Then when it is my turn, I just walk up to the ball, line up and putt with no practice strokes.  I find that practice strokes don't help my speed very much, so I stopped doing them.  I will do some practice strokes when others are getting ready at times just to stay loose.

I don't use aimpoint, but i do read greens from the fairway, you get a lot of information this way. The only time i take longer is if i really have a long putt that i need to break down into segments, maybe a double breaker.

But i agree, reading the putt 4 times before hitting it is crazy. I know a guy who will read the putt from behind the ball, behind the hole, and behind the ball again when he places his ball down. He uses a line on the ball to line up the putt. But he doesn't take absurdly long, and he's a good putter, helps cut down on the read time :p

For me, i usually don't take a long time, but i can. But i don't take long over normal shots, so i always say i save my time for  putting ;) So if someone is going to bitch about my putting, which isn't to long, i can always say i take half as much time hitting a full shot into the green, so i got some lee way :p

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Unfortunately, this happens a lot and not only on the greens. My favorite is watching the group in front me all hit tee shots on a par 5, where the furthest one might be 200 yds, only to have them all then wait for the green to clear. :-\
my get up and go musta got up and went..
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When you use "AimPoint" is  this a technique that can be learned through YouTube, for example? I see that there are aimpoint instructors and one can sign up for lessons, but do you have to?

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Well of course they were taking all that time for a putt. There was probably 25 cents on the line! Instead of penalizing some Amateur who can't cash a check, go after "THE NAME" player (pick one). Give him the 2 strokes and move on. And repeat and repeat until they get it. And don't do it on a Thursday- do it on the weekend when EVERYONE is watching. The other players will thank them, the viewers will thank them and the millions of us out there behind that "Pro from Dover" who does whatever the pros do will thank you. They'll whine and moan about this being their job and millions are at stake... Fine- don't like it? I'LL play in your place- who wouldn't want to get out there for a chance at millions of Dollars. Let him go out on some courses and try walking to the green from 60 yards out "to read the green". He'd be shot- That's what those little green sheets tell you that they GIVE YOU FOR FREE as part of all the OTHER Tournament swag you get for nothing. And honestly, if they've played 17 holes and STILL can't figure out the speed of a green, then they aren't deserving of being called golfers- more like "roadblocks"
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Originally Posted by boogielicious

Agreed.  With AimPoint, I don't even squat down half the time.  I take the side read for elevation as I approach the green and most times get my midpoint read before anyone else is even ready. If I already have my read, I stand behind my ball while others are putting and pick my line.  Then when it is my turn, I just walk up to the ball, line up and putt with no practice strokes.  I find that practice strokes don't help my speed very much, so I stopped doing them.  I will do some practice strokes when others are getting ready at times just to stay loose.

I do it the exact same way.  Even before Aimpoint, I would just get my read from standing behind the ball.  My problem was that I would always go too fast.  Meaning, that when the guy before me putted, if he missed, I would frequently confuse him by already setting up to my ball.  You know he's thinking "is this guy hitting already?  Should I mark it or stop walking?  But I just wanted to tap it in."  I guess you could say I get a little antsy sometimes, but I'm trying to stop that. :)

Originally Posted by Moppy

When you use "AimPoint" is  this a technique that can be learned through YouTube, for example?

No.

Originally Posted by Moppy

I see that there are aimpoint instructors and one can sign up for lessons, but do you have to?

Yes.

It's all based on science.  The crux of it is that you are taught how to read the severity and direction of the slope, then combine that with the length of the putt you just paced off, and with the stimp of the green that you figured out before the round (also taught in the class), and then you look up the exact amount of break in a series of charts that you receive when you take the class.

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Originally Posted by Moppy

When you use "AimPoint" is  this a technique that can be learned through YouTube, for example? I see that there are aimpoint instructors and one can sign up for lessons, but do you have to?

it is better to take the class.

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

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Originally Posted by Fourputt

Average golfers (or worse) stalking the green trying to read a putt when they haven't the foggiest notion what to look for is one of the worst legacies handed down from the Tour.  They would garner as much information just standing behind the ball and giving it a good look, then stepping up and hitting the damn thing.  I consider myself a fairly decent putter, and the only time I ever had trouble is when I decided that I was good enough to look from both sides of the hole.  All that usually did was confuse the issue.  Now I'm back to just looking from behind the ball and going with it.

If I have a particularly tricky putt and I have time while others are playing, I may give it a quick look from the far side of the hole, but that's a rare case.  I won't waste time doing it while others in my group or in the fairway are waiting.  The only good thing I ever picked up from a Nike ad - "Just do it!"

I have the opposite experience. I would never look at a putt from behind the hole but, when I tried it a few times on the recommendation of a very good putter, I found that I got good information on the terrain and it led to better results. I only do it when others are putting and I never start the process when it is my turn to putt.

I agree that it can slow down play, so I make sure to get to the other side of the hole for at least a glance while others are putting, especially on greens that I dont know well. It is totally unecessary at my home course where I have been playing for thirty + years, and it astounds me that guys still do it on greens they play as often as three times a week.

Bill M

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Originally Posted by jetsknicks1

Unfortunately, this happens a lot and not only on the greens. My favorite is watching the group in front me all hit tee shots on a par 5, where the furthest one might be 200 yds, only to have them all then wait for the green to clear.

this. is. incredibly. annoying.

happens all too often too, unfortunately.  even one of my buddies who can be a long hitter will wait to tee off on what he deems "driveable" greens -- and if memory serves, only one time did i witness the ball actually go straight... and it was short, anyway.

even worse -- i was out with my dad last month, and one of the guys in the twosome in front of us hit his tee shot in a fairway bunker.  this guy was 200yds out from the green and (quite annoyingly) waited for the group in front of him to clear the green ... only to duff it maybe 15 yds.

whether it's reading a putt for too long, or waiting so they can "go for it", pace-of-play is problematic because of players who are trying to be 'pros'.

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Nice M*A*S*H reference.

It's become a regular term of derision for us. You know and have seen or been hooked up with him. Everyone has. $150 golf slacks, $100 golf shirt, Top of the line latest and greatest clubs, $300 patent leather shoes, Pro V1's, logo's everywhere, etc... Stories of all the great golf he's played all over the world, etc... And cant hit a drive, iron, chip or a putt to save his life. When he DOES nail one of 220 yds in the fairway, "Oh yeah, I just had to adjust_____ to get that back" and promptly forgets about it on the next hole... then regales you with how YOUR swing has a hitch in it and you should try so and so... after repeatedly blowing it past him on every drive.

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Originally Posted by davedove

Let me describe a normal hole for this foursome:

We would watch a player squat and read his line from behind his ball mark.

He would get up and move to the far side of the hole, squat and read his line from that direction.

Then he would replace his ball on the green, only to go behind the ball to squat and read the line again.

He would take a couple of practice swings with the putter behind the ball, squat and read again.

Finally, he would walk up to the ball and address it.

After a long time over the ball, he would finally make his shot.

He overshoots the hole by twenty feet!

Repeat!!!!

At first I was going to make a joke about you playing behind Tiger Woods, until the 2nd to last sentence.  Turns out you were playing behind Phil Mickelson.

Anyhow, this sounds like it's another pace of play thread, and it likely fits into one of the current discussions.  But, yes, that's pretty excessive.

Brandon a.k.a. Tony Stark

-------------------------

The Fastest Flip in the West

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Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Aren't they all?

Not only are all courses local, but it's impossible to hit one shot more than once.

Brandon a.k.a. Tony Stark

-------------------------

The Fastest Flip in the West

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