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What is your opinion on the "Breakfast Ball"? - Page 7

post #109 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post

I'd look at it outside the rules and just see if the practice ball on the first tee gives a different advantage vs just warming up in the range.  (what would be the justification of the rule)

 

Seems to me, that there are some fairways that have particular roll characteristics, and a halfway decent practice shot (declared or not) would give a player special information in how to hit his official shot (think of the roll out on a fairway that feeds the ball left to right, etc....)  (of course, you also get that if you just watch the other guys' shots too).

 

So if one wants to be pissy about it, then practice hits should happen on the practice range, not on the course itself.  Practice on the 1st tee could give more info than just practice on the range.

 

Personally, I don't care if someone does or not in casual play.  I play my game, they can play theirs.
 


This all boils back down to "do you play by the rules of golf when you play casually?". I personally do.

However, I could care less if people take 1 mulligan per side, take a breakfast ball, etc. Again, unless we're playing for HC or have a bet on the match, you play your own game and you won't hear me bring up the rules at all. But, if we're playing for even one signed George Washington (bragging rights dollar), we're playing by the rules and you can kiss your mulligans, fluffed/rolling lies, breakfast/lunch/brunch/dinner balls goodbye.

These issues are non-issues. You're either playing casually and playing how you decide to play your round, or you're playing in a setting where USGA/R&A are observed. I do my best to play by the rules at all times. The best answer is: Do you.

post #110 of 358

Why doesn't this thread get a big z8_offtopic.gif ?  The question was about how to employ a breakfast ball.  Obviously, its against the rules.  If that's the be all and end all for you, what more is there to add?  Clearly the OP was trying to open a discussion among those who permit the practice as to how they go about doing so.  

 

 

I find it frustrating that people can't have a discussion about reasonable deviations from the rules without the thread getting hijacked by the crowd that just goes on and on chanting various forms of "the rules are the rules are the rules are the rules!"  

 

 

As for the OP's original questions--I typically play a breakfast ball if two conditions are met: (1) I didn't warm up; and (2) its early in the morning.  I like to tee off before 6am and don't have the opportunity to hit balls first.  I dont automatically hit two, but if my first shot sucked I'll hit another one.  My friends suck at golf so when I play with them we play pretty loose with the rules.  Breakfast balls plus a mulligan per nine, 1 stroke and drop for OB etc.  I don't report those scores.  

 

 

But since we're there anyway.....a2_wink.gif here's my 2 cents

 
Quote:

1-1. General 

The Game of Golf consists of playing a ball with a club from the teeing ground into the hole by a stroke or successive strokes in accordance with the Rules.

 

This doesn't prohibit a practice ball.  It simply says that golf is a game where you hit the ball from the tee into a hole.  At best it can be read to prohibit teeing off from someplace other than the teeing ground, using something other than a ball and a club, or not hitting into the hole.  It doesn't say when the game begins or ends.  It certainly doesn't say anything about practice.  And since there is a section on "Practice" it doesn't make sense to look to look anywhere else for some implied prohibition on practice.  Talk about grasping for straws...

 

 
Quote:

Stipulated Round

The “stipulated round’’ consists of playing the holes of the course in their correct sequence, unless otherwise authorized by the Committee. The number of holes in a stipulated round is 18 unless a smaller number is authorized by the Committee.

 

I'm not sure what relevance this has either.  Nobody is playing out of sequence.

 

 

Quote:

7-1. Before Or Between Rounds

a. Match Play

On any day of a match-play competition, a player may practice on the competition course before a round.

b. Stroke Play

Before a round or play-off on any day of a stroke-play competition, a competitor must not practice on the competition course or test the surface of any putting green on the course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.

When two or more rounds of a stroke-play competition are to be played over consecutive days, a competitor must not practice between those rounds on any competition course remaining to be played, or test the surface of anyputting green on such course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.

 

This is the one.  If you're in a "stroke-play competition" you cannot hit a practice shot.  I think some might be assuming that a "competition" is the same as a tournament, and different from a casual round.  But I dont think that's right.  The rules don't define "competition" and the definition of "competitor" uses the word "competition" so that isn't helpful either.  But under "Forms of Stroke Play" the Rules describe an individual game of stroke play as

 

Quote:

Forms Of Stroke Play

Individual: A competition in which each competitor plays as an individual.

 

So I think its clear that a "competition" is any game of stroke play, not just tournaments.  So you can't practice on the course on the day of your round.

 

Someone might argue that you can take the practice stroke and declare that round over and then start a new round.  But that doesn't work because you've already practiced on the course that day.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

 

Look at it this way:  Am I allowed to play a practice round over 18 holes, then come back to the 1st tee and say "Now I'm playing a stipulated round for score"? 

 

No, I dont think you can.  I think that violates 7-1(b).  I think the rest of your hypos were premised on the answer to this being "yes."

post #111 of 358
Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

I looked through the thread, and didn't see where anyone had quoted the actual decision that pertains.  I apologize if I missed it, but decision 7-1b/1 pertains to your question with respect to hitting a practice ball outside of the first tee teeing area.....

 

7-1b/1

One Practice Stroke Played on Course Before Stroke-Play Round

 

Q.On the day of a stroke-play competition, a competitor, before starting his round, played one practice stroke from a forward tee at the first hole into an out-of-bounds area. What is the ruling?

 

A.The competitor infringed Rule 7-1b and was subject to disqualification. However, the Committee would be justified, in the circumstances, in modifying the penalty to two strokes under Rule 33-7. If the competitor played more than one such stroke, modification of the disqualification penalty would not be appropriate.

 

Nope, no one has cited that particular decision but, as we've discussed, we already know that Rule 7-1b prohibits any practice on the course the day of a stroke play tournament. So what you found is just confirmation of that.

 

What I've been talking about though, is a practice stroke when it's *not* a stoke play competition - e.g., a non-tournament, non-competitive round, but still played under the rules of golf.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post

Seems to me, that there are some fairways that have particular roll characteristics, and a halfway decent practice shot (declared or not) would give a player special information in how to hit his official shot (think of the roll out on a fairway that feeds the ball left to right, etc....)  (of course, you also get that if you just watch the other guys' shots too).

 

So if one wants to be pissy about it, then practice hits should happen on the practice range, not on the course itself.  Practice on the 1st tee could give more info than just practice on the range.

 

Yes, but you'd get that same info by playing a practice round on the course before your round for score - something that AFAIK is perfectly fine as long as it's not a tournament/competition day.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyder View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post

Personally, I don't care if someone does or not in casual play.  I play my game, they can play theirs.


This all boils back down to "do you play by the rules of golf when you play casually?". I personally do.

 

I just want to make my position clear: I do too, and I'm not asking for anyone's blessing for something that's against the rules. I'm just trying to figure out if a practice shot on the course, before the round begins, is or is not against the rules. What I think it boils down to is, in the case where it's not a stroke play tournament (i.e., any casual round for score or handicap purposes), what's the difference between playing 18 holes of practice shots (which I think anyone would agree is acceptable) vs. playing one practice shot?

post #112 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

 

What I've been talking about though, is a practice stroke when it's *not* a stoke play competition - e.g., a non-tournament, non-competitive round, but still played under the rules of golf.

 

 

I just want to make my position clear: I do too, and I'm not asking for anyone's blessing for something that's against the rules. I'm just trying to figure out if a practice shot on the course, before the round begins, is or is not against the rules. What I think it boils down to is, in the case where it's not a stroke play tournament (i.e., any casual round for score or handicap purposes), what's the difference between playing 18 holes of practice shots (which I think anyone would agree is acceptable) vs. playing one practice shot?

 

There is no distinction in the rules for tournament or non-tournament "casual" rounds.  I think you're misunderstanding the term "competition".......

post #113 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

Why doesn't this thread get a big z8_offtopic.gif ?  The question was about how to employ a breakfast ball.  Obviously, its against the rules.  If that's the be all and end all for you, what more is there to add?  Clearly the OP was trying to open a discussion among those who permit the practice as to how they go about doing so.  

 

It's up to the moderators to ultimately decide of course, but I think it's on topic - we're discussing a way to play a breakfast ball that's still under the rules.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

Quote:

7-1. Before Or Between Rounds

a. Match Play

On any day of a match-play competition, a player may practice on the competition course before a round.

b. Stroke Play

Before a round or play-off on any day of a stroke-play competition, a competitor must not practice on the competition course or test the surface of any putting green on the course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.

When two or more rounds of a stroke-play competition are to be played over consecutive days, a competitor must not practice between those rounds on any competition course remaining to be played, or test the surface of anyputting green on such course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.

 

This is the one.  If you're in a "stroke-play competition" you cannot hit a practice shot.  I think some might be assuming that a "competition" is the same as a tournament, and different from a casual round.  But I dont think that's right.  The rules don't define "competition" and the definition of "competitor" uses the word "competition" so that isn't helpful either.  But under "Forms of Stroke Play" the Rules describe an individual game of stroke play as

 

Quote:

Forms Of Stroke Play

Individual: A competition in which each competitor plays as an individual.

 

So I think its clear that a "competition" is any game of stroke play, not just tournaments.  So you can't practice on the course on the day of your round.

 

Thank you for adding something new! I think that is an interesting and valid point. I'll have to chew on that, and maybe see what others have to say, but you could be right.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

 

Look at it this way:  Am I allowed to play a practice round over 18 holes, then come back to the 1st tee and say "Now I'm playing a stipulated round for score"? 

 

No, I dont think you can.  I think that violates 7-1(b).  I think the rest of your hypos were premised on the answer to this being "yes."

 

Agreed. If that first premise is false, clearly the rest of my hypos are false as well.

 

Again, not sure if I agree that any round of golf played is a "stroke-play competition", but I'll allow for that possibility.

post #114 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

Why doesn't this thread get a big z8_offtopic.gif ?  The question was about how to employ a breakfast ball.  Obviously, its against the rules.  If that's the be all and end all for you, what more is there to add?  Clearly the OP was trying to open a discussion among those who permit the practice as to how they go about doing so.  

 

 

I find it frustrating that people can't have a discussion about reasonable deviations from the rules without the thread getting hijacked by the crowd that just goes on and on chanting various forms of "the rules are the rules are the rules are the rules!"  

 

 

The topic title asks, "What is your opinion on the Breakfast Ball?"  That leaves the discussion wide open to any opinion on the subject, pro or con.  He has since received a lot of opinions, pro and con.  Mission accomplished.  I don't see what you are so excited about.  e3_rolleyes.gif

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

 

What I've been talking about though, is a practice stroke when it's *not* a stoke play competition - e.g., a non-tournament, non-competitive round, but still played under the rules of golf.

 

 

I just want to make my position clear: I do too, and I'm not asking for anyone's blessing for something that's against the rules. I'm just trying to figure out if a practice shot on the course, before the round begins, is or is not against the rules. What I think it boils down to is, in the case where it's not a stroke play tournament (i.e., any casual round for score or handicap purposes), what's the difference between playing 18 holes of practice shots (which I think anyone would agree is acceptable) vs. playing one practice shot?

 

There is no distinction in the rules for tournament or non-tournament "casual" rounds.  I think you're misunderstanding the term "competition".......

 

 Technically, every non practice round is a competition of some sort, whether it's against your buddies, against the course and your own personal best for that course, or is an organized competition.  Thus the rules apply in all cases.

post #115 of 358

I think I am nearing an answer, though it requires a different path.  As far as I can tell, the rules make no distinction between "competitions" and any other sort of play (i.e., casual rounds).  One way to look at it is that this shows that all rounds are "competitions."  Another way to look at it is that competitions are separate, but non-competitive rounds are not governed by the Rules.    

 

The former is what I suggested above.  However, this appears to cut against that:

 

Quote:

3-1. General; Winner

A stroke-play competition consists of competitors completing each hole of a stipulated round or rounds and, for each round, returning a score card on which there is a gross score for each hole. Each competitor is playing against every other competitor in the competition.

The competitor who plays the stipulated round or rounds in the feweststrokes is the winner.

In a handicap competition, the competitor with the lowest net score for the stipulated round or rounds is the winner.

 

If a "stroke play competition" consists of competitors, then playing alone and posting a score doesn't seem to be a "stroke play competition."  

 


 

However, the alternative--that the Rules of Golf only govern "competitions"--actually makes some sense.  If you're not in a competition then you can do whatever you want.  You can choose to play by the Rules of Golf that apply in competitions, or you can choose not to.  There's really no reason for the USGA to establish rules that apply in non-USGA sanctioned rounds.  And in fact, it really can't.

 

This seems obvious.  But most of us want to follow the rules because its a requirement for posting handicaps.  You don't have to be in a competition to post a score, but  "To post an 18-hole score, the player must play at least 13 holes in accordance with the principles of the Rules of Golf."***    So the rules governing competitions apply to non-competitions, de facto.


 

So my conclusion (at the moment) is that the Rules of Golf apply only to competitions, not to casual rounds.  Thus they make no distinction between the two.   For handicapping purposes, you must abide by the competition rules to post a score, even if you're not playing in a competition.  So technically, the rules don't prohibit a breakfast ball in a non-tournament, but the handicap manual prohibits posting a score if you took a breakfast ball.

 


 

 

 

 

***This is interesting for two reasons.  First, you only have to play 13 holes under the Rules.  I'm not sure whether that means you can take a breakfast ball on 1, and play the other 17 holes by the rules, then post.  But my guess (without looking too deeply) is that the 13 hole requirement contemplates one of those scenarios where you don't complete a hole and make up the score.  The second interesting point is that it appears to qualify how strictly the rules must be followed "in accordance with the principles of the Rules of Golf."  I'm not sure what to make of that.

post #116 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

I think I am nearing an answer, though it requires a different path.  As far as I can tell, the rules make no distinction between "competitions" and any other sort of play (i.e., casual rounds).  One way to look at it is that this shows that all rounds are "competitions."  Another way to look at it is that competitions are separate, but non-competitive rounds are not governed by the Rules.    

 

The former is what I suggested above.  However, this appears to cut against that:

 

 

 


 

However, the alternative--that the Rules of Golf only govern "competitions"--actually makes some sense.  If you're not in a competition then you can do whatever you want.  You can choose to play by the Rules of Golf that apply in competitions, or you can choose not to.  There's really no reason for the USGA to establish rules that apply in non-USGA sanctioned rounds.  And in fact, it really can't.

 

This seems obvious.  But most of us want to follow the rules because its a requirement for posting handicaps.  You don't have to be in a competition to post a score, but  "To post an 18-hole score, the player must play at least 13 holes in accordance with the principles of the Rules of Golf."***    So the rules governing competitions apply to non-competitions, de facto.


 

So my conclusion (at the moment) is that the Rules of Golf apply only to competitions, not to casual rounds.  Thus they make no distinction between the two.   For handicapping purposes, you must abide by the competition rules to post a score, even if you're not playing in a competition.  So technically, the rules don't prohibit a breakfast ball in a non-tournament, but the handicap manual prohibits posting a score if you took a breakfast ball.

 


 

 

 

 

***This is interesting for two reasons.  First, you only have to play 13 holes under the Rules.  I'm not sure whether that means you can take a breakfast ball on 1, and play the other 17 holes by the rules, then post.  But my guess (without looking too deeply) is that the 13 hole requirement contemplates one of those scenarios where you don't complete a hole and make up the score.  The second interesting point is that it appears to qualify how strictly the rules must be followed "in accordance with the principles of the Rules of Golf."  I'm not sure what to make of that.

 

The rules of golf apply to those who play golf.  If someone chooses to play some other, unamed game on a golf course, they may certainly do so........

post #117 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

 

The rules of golf apply to those who play golf.  If someone chooses to play some other, unamed game on a golf course, they may certainly do so........

 

That's a simplistic point of view that assumes that the USGA has some sort of authority over the citizens of the world, or at least a trademark on the word "golf."  

 

But practically speaking, the fact that the R&A, USGA, and PGA could have disagreed over the use of anchored putting is enough to disprove this.  Surely, if the PGA decided to allow anchored putting you would not have argued that the pro's play some other unnamed game on a golf course.  

 

It also ignores the language of the rules.

 

But I'll give you that my analysis essentially leads to the same place.  One can ignore the why and how, as you do, and arrive at the same place.  

post #118 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

What I've been talking about though, is a practice stroke when it's *not* a stoke play competition - e.g., a non-tournament, non-competitive round, but still played under the rules of golf.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

There is no distinction in the rules for tournament or non-tournament "casual" rounds.  I think you're misunderstanding the term "competition".......

 

That answers that.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

That's a simplistic point of view that assumes that the USGA has some sort of authority over the citizens of the world, or at least a trademark on the word "golf."

 

No, if you play something that's outside the Rules of Golf, you've made up a "new" game. It may resemble golf, but disc golf resembles golf too. There's one line in there, after which is a long grey area, and that line exists between the rules being followed 100% and the first minor rule being modified.

 

We can all still colloquially say "I played golf today" but you're not an idiot - you know what people are basically saying when they say "that's not golf." So I could direct the same sort of indignant attitude back to you if I cared enough - stop acting like you don't know exactly what some people say when they say "that's not golf." You know what they mean. That or you're really that stupid, and I really, really doubt it's the latter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

But practically speaking, the fact that the R&A, USGA, and PGA could have disagreed over the use of anchored putting is enough to disprove this.

 

That's not relevant. First, they didn't disagree, and second, the PGA is not a rules-making body.

 

This is marginally on topic, but if I were a TV court judge, I'd make a joke about how this line of discussion will be given a very short leash, or something like that.

post #119 of 358

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

 

That answers that.

 

Do you really think the rules of golf use the word "competition" to include casual solo rounds?  I think 3-1 indicates otherwise.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

No, if you play something that's outside the Rules of Golf, you've made up a "new" game. It may resemble golf, but disc golf resembles golf too. There's one line in there, after which is a long grey area, and that line exists between the rules being followed 100% and the first minor rule being modified.

 

We can all still colloquially say "I played golf today" but you're not an idiot - you know what people are basically saying when they say "that's not golf." So I could direct the same sort of indignant attitude back to you if I cared enough - stop acting like you don't know exactly what some people say when they say "that's not golf." You know what they mean. That or you're really that stupid, and I really, really doubt it's the latter.

 

 

 

To start with, I don't think I deserved that tone.  I certainly don't think I have been disrespectful to anyone.  In fact, I think you misunderstood my post.  

 

I had a detailed post explaining why I think Scam3bill is wrong about being able to practice on the course in a non-tournament setting.  Others hadn't convinced him because they were citing rules that weren't on point.  Dave replied with a simplistic response--that's not golf.  Yes, I understand that he meant that the rules apply to solo rounds--that's what he said in the prior sentence.  Dave thinks the rules apply to solo rounds.  I think they only indirectly apply to solo rounds.  The issue is the scope of the rules.  

 

My point about ruling bodies is that they only govern a limited universe.  Countries set laws within their borders.  The NFL sets the Rules for pro football which are different than the rules set by the NCAA for college football.  Its a matter of scope and jurisdiction.  Under my interpretation of the rules, which I explained above, I think the USGA's rules of golf only purport to govern "competitions," as the word is normally used, not solo rounds.  The rules are not global in their application--they apply in competitions in the united states that are somehow associated with the USGA (I do not pretend to know the exact details of this).  Thus the point of view that the rules apply to everything ("that's not golf") is incorrect and simplistic.    

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

That's not relevant. First, they didn't disagree, and second, the PGA is not a rules-making body.

 

This is marginally on topic, but if I were a TV court judge, I'd make a joke about how this line of discussion will be given a very short leash, or something like that.

 

The PGA sets rules for the PGA, no?  Regardless, the sentence holds true without the PGA.  As I explained, it has to do with the scope of the rules.  The R&A sets rules in the UK.  The USGA in the US.  The PGA for the tour.  They each have their limited scope.  

 

Cut me off as you please, but I'll also point out that my post got a thumbs up from golfingdad, who said  "Good point ... expecially the anchored putter analogy."

post #120 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas View Post

That answers that.

 

Do you really think the rules of golf use the word "competition" to include casual solo rounds?  I think 3-1 indicates otherwise.

 

Agreed, I think there is still some doubt based on the wording of 3-1. In casual solo rounds, even when playing for the purposes of submitting a score for handicap, you're not "returning a score card" to anyone, there is no concept of a "winner", and there are not necessarily "competitors" (plural).

 

Regarding the rest of your post, I also think you have a good point. Yes, the PGA Tour ended up not bifurcating this time, but they clearly left the door open for doing so in the future. If that happens, are we going to stop calling the PGA Tour "golf" simply because they have some infinitesimally small differences between their rules and those of the USGA/R&A? Of course not.

 

That said, I want to play by whatever rules the USGA has in effect for handicap purposes. And 3-1definitely leaves doubt in my mind that *all* rounds are "stroke play competitions", and if they're not then rule 7-1 regarding practice the day of a "stroke play competition" would not apply.

post #121 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

 

That answers that.

 

The PGA sets rules for the PGA, no?  Regardless, the sentence holds true without the PGA.  As I explained, it has to do with the scope of the rules.  The R&A sets rules in the UK.  The USGA in the US.  The PGA for the tour.  They each have their limited scope.  

 

Cut me off as you please, but I'll also point out that my post got a thumbs up from golfingdad, who said  "Good point ... expecially the anchored putter analogy."

LOL ... I don't know how much weight my thumbs-up carry around here, especially in the rules forums where all I seem to do is end up in arguments against fourputt and David, et. al. over the exact same thing. :)

 

But yes, I think that your anchored putter analogy was great and I wish I'd thought of it in some of the earlier discussions.  Granted, it does carry a little less weight seeing as how they aren't actually going to go against the ruling, but you are right that if they had gone through with it, the PGA tour would still be playing golf.  Therefore, I think the argument is still valid.

post #122 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

 

That said, I want to play by whatever rules the USGA has in effect for handicap purposes. And 3-1definitely leaves doubt in my mind that *all* rounds are "stroke play competitions", and if they're not then rule 7-1 regarding practice the day of a "stroke play competition" would not apply.

 

But here's the thing: even if the Rules establish how competitions are played, since the handicap manual only permits posting solo scores played by those Rules, then 7-1 does indirectly apply to solo rounds.

 

So there's really no way around it.  Golf is golf.  a2_wink.gif

post #123 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

 

That said, I want to play by whatever rules the USGA has in effect for handicap purposes. And 3-1definitely leaves doubt in my mind that *all* rounds are "stroke play competitions", and if they're not then rule 7-1 regarding practice the day of a "stroke play competition" would not apply.

 

But here's the thing: even if the Rules establish how competitions are played, since the handicap manual only permits posting solo scores played by those Rules, then 7-1 does indirectly apply to solo rounds.

 

Hmm, not following your logic. Maybe if I give you mine you can show me where I'm going wrong:

 

- Rounds played for the purpose of posting a handicap must follow the rules of golf.

- The rules of golf state that practice on the course on the same day of a stroke play competition is not allowed.

- A round played for posting a handicap is not stroke play competition, since according to the definition of that in 3-1, such a competition requires competitors, a winner, turning in a scorecard to a committee, etc.

- Therefore it is acceptable to practice on the course the same day of a round played for the purpose of posting a handicap.

post #124 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriskzoo View Post

Personally, I hate it, but it always seems to come up on the first tee when playing weekend rounds with my buddies - especially since we play for some modest stakes.  But even for those that are for the "Breakfast Ball" what is your opinion on how it should be played?

 

1) Do you just give everyone 2 shots on the first tee and everyone picks their best? or

2) Is it completely optional and if you play a second tee ball, that ball is the one in play?

 

My stock response has been "Are we playing real golf?" which usually nixes the idea of the breakfast ball, but what irritates me more is a guy who will take one, not hit it nearly as good as his first ball and say "Looks like I'll just play my first."

 

 

We will do what I bolded in the winter when it is out of season, the range is closed and we can't warm up, and we are not posting scores. Otherwise, as Sam Snead famously told Ted Williams, "We have to play all our foul balls."

post #125 of 358
Quote:

Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post
 

To start with, I don't think I deserved that tone.  I certainly don't think I have been disrespectful to anyone.  In fact, I think you misunderstood my post.

 

If you read "tone" there, it didn't exist when I typed it. It gets old when people play dumb about the meaning of "if you don't play under the rules you're not really playing golf."

 

My interest in this topic is beyond exhausted. I don't care what other people do on the golf course so long as they're not being asshats or playing against me.

post #126 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

 

Agreed, I think there is still some doubt based on the wording of 3-1. In casual solo rounds, even when playing for the purposes of submitting a score for handicap, you're not "returning a score card" to anyone, there is no concept of a "winner", and there are not necessarily "competitors" (plural).

 

Regarding the rest of your post, I also think you have a good point. Yes, the PGA Tour ended up not bifurcating this time, but they clearly left the door open for doing so in the future. If that happens, are we going to stop calling the PGA Tour "golf" simply because they have some infinitesimally small differences between their rules and those of the USGA/R&A? Of course not.

 

That said, I want to play by whatever rules the USGA has in effect for handicap purposes. And 3-1definitely leaves doubt in my mind that *all* rounds are "stroke play competitions", and if they're not then rule 7-1 regarding practice the day of a "stroke play competition" would not apply.

 

 

Quote:

1-1. General 

The Game of Golf consists of playing a ball with a club from the teeing ground into the hole by a stroke or successive strokes in accordance with the Rules.

 

This pretty much govern's it. They can say competition all they want in the decisions, but the rules of golf are the rules of golf. In doing so they must play by accordance with the rules.

The first rule basically says, you must follow the rules of golf, its simple.

Then they have rules for match play and stroke play. For any legitimate stroke play, you can not practice on the course the day off before the round of golf, or in between two consecutive rounds of golf. As being amateurs, and not on the PGA tour, we must obey the USGA rulings. So governing bodies doesn't really matter, that is a mute point.

 

If people want to argue if it only matters with competitions, it doesn't, it matters with posting handicaps as well,

 

 

Quote:
a. Scores To PostTo post a 9-hole score, the player must play 7 to 12 holes, and at least 7 holes must be played in accordance with the principle of the Rules of Golf.  To post an 18-hole score, the player must play at least 13 holes in accordance with the principles of the Rules of Golf.

 

Most of the decision by the USGA have been when holes are unplayable, weather, darkness, under repair. In such cases scores can be posted if a certain amount has been played. It could be said you can practice a shot on the first tee, but that score must be negated for purposes of handicap because the round has started, and you practiced on that hole, which isn't under the accordance with the rules of golf. So basically you can do what you want, but you only played 17 holes instead of 18 holes, as actually playing golf by the rules.

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