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What is your opinion on the "Breakfast Ball"? - Page 6

post #91 of 358

I love the posts on this topic. The passion for the game of golf is indisputable.  For whatever it is worth, here is my two cents....

 

For the purist:  Never hit two balls off of the first tee, play by the rules of golf on every shot, hole out every putt, and be rewarded by knowing that should you play someone in a tournament or match that you will undoubtedly have a true handicap. Now, if your opponent is one that bends the rules a little, like a breakfast ball, you will have a decided advantage. Remember:  Don't worry about the other golfer. There are too many other things to stress out about on the course (water, trees, bunkers, three-putts, etc.).

 

For the breakfast baller:  As long as you are not in a tournament, or your playing partners object, or you are promoting slow play, go ahead and hit the breakfast ball.  The real goal of playing golf should be to enjoy the journey.  Don't worry about the destination, (unless it is the 19th hole), it is often times overrated.

 

A universal solution:  If we could all agree that hitting a breakfast ball is a way of getting a second chance when you do not have a chance to get to the range before your round, then I think the solution is relatively simple...  On the first tee declare that your first swing is not the start of your round, but rather, a "warm up" shot.  Then the first ball would not be in play regardless of where it lands.  Then when you tee up the second ball, that ball is in play.  Every time.

post #92 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfreuter415 View Post


A universal solution:  If we could all agree that hitting a breakfast ball is a way of getting a second chance when you do not have a chance to get to the range before your round, then I think the solution is relatively simple...  On the first tee declare that your first swing is not the start of your round, but rather, a "warm up" shot.  Then the first ball would not be in play regardless of where it lands.  Then when you tee up the second ball, that ball is in play.  Every time.

 

I've suggested this. Some have claimed it's against the rules, but have not been able to cite any Rules or Decisions that prevent you from saying "I'm going to hit one practice shot, then start my round with the second ball."

post #93 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfreuter415 View Post


A universal solution:  If we could all agree that hitting a breakfast ball is a way of getting a second chance when you do not have a chance to get to the range before your round, then I think the solution is relatively simple...  On the first tee declare that your first swing is not the start of your round, but rather, a "warm up" shot.  Then the first ball would not be in play regardless of where it lands.  Then when you tee up the second ball, that ball is in play.  Every time.

 

I've suggested this. Some have claimed it's against the rules, but have not been able to cite any Rules or Decisions that prevent you from saying "I'm going to hit one practice shot, then start my round with the second ball."

 

I stated it earlier but here it is from the Rules of Golf:

 

 

Quote:

1-1. General 

The Game of Golf consists of playing a ball with a club from the teeing ground into the hole by a stroke or successive strokes in accordance with the Rules.

 

Once you have played a ball from the teeing ground, you have started your round.  It's the first rule in the book.  I also said that as long as you play the practice ball from outside of the teeing ground, you might be able to justify calling it a warm-up ball.  I realize that anyone who believes in the legitimacy of a breakfast ball isn't going to care about the difference here, but since you asked for the rule, there it is.

post #94 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfreuter415 View Post


A universal solution:  If we could all agree that hitting a breakfast ball is a way of getting a second chance when you do not have a chance to get to the range before your round, then I think the solution is relatively simple...  On the first tee declare that your first swing is not the start of your round, but rather, a "warm up" shot.  Then the first ball would not be in play regardless of where it lands.  Then when you tee up the second ball, that ball is in play.  Every time.

 

I've suggested this. Some have claimed it's against the rules, but have not been able to cite any Rules or Decisions that prevent you from saying "I'm going to hit one practice shot, then start my round with the second ball."

 

I stated it earlier but here it is from the Rules of Golf:

 

 

Quote:

1-1. General 

The Game of Golf consists of playing a ball with a club from the teeing ground into the hole by a stroke or successive strokes in accordance with the Rules.

 

Once you have played a ball from the tee, you have started your round.  It's the first rule in the book.  I also said that as long as you play the practice ball from outside of the teeing ground, you might be able to justify calling it a warm-up ball.  I realize that anyone who believes in the legitimacy of a breakfast ball isn't going to care about the difference here, but since you asked for the rule, there it is.

 

You're really reaching if you think that wording prohibits one from playing a warmup shot from the tee before starting the official round. But even if that's true, then fine - one can play a warmup ball from outside the teeing ground and not be breaking any rules. Problem solved.

 

And btw, there's a big difference between what's ordinarily thought of as a breakfast ball (a do-over if you don't like your first shot), and what I'm talking about (in essence, a warmup from the teeing area that would ordinarily be done from the range, in cases where there is no range or no opportunity to use it.)

post #95 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

You're really reaching if you think that wording prohibits one from playing a warmup shot from the tee before starting the official round. But even if that's true, then fine - one can play a warmup ball from outside the teeing ground and not be breaking any rules. Problem solved.

It is the rule. Let's see a PGA Tour player try that one out some day. Ha. :)
post #96 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

You're really reaching if you think that wording prohibits one from playing a warmup shot from the tee before starting the official round. But even if that's true, then fine - one can play a warmup ball from outside the teeing ground and not be breaking any rules. Problem solved.

It is the rule. Let's see a PGA Tour player try that one out some day. Ha. :)

 

There's a clear rule that covers it for stroke play tournaments though: No practice on the course before the round on the day of the tournament.

 

Also, in a tournament, the start of the stipulated round begins when it's your tee time and you're on the tee. With any other round, the golfer is who determines when his round starts.

post #97 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

There's a clear rule that covers it for stroke play tournaments though: No practice on the course before the round on the day of the tournament.

Also, in a tournament, the start of the stipulated round begins when it's your tee time and you're on the tee. With any other round, the golfer is who determines when his round starts.

Exactly. But now you're arguing against yourself. So...?
post #98 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

There's a clear rule that covers it for stroke play tournaments though: No practice on the course before the round on the day of the tournament.

Also, in a tournament, the start of the stipulated round begins when it's your tee time and you're on the tee. With any other round, the golfer is who determines when his round starts.

Exactly. But now you're arguing against yourself. So...?

 

Huh? If I'm not playing in a stroke play tournament, then Rule 7-1.b does not apply.

post #99 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

 

Huh? If I'm not playing in a stroke play tournament, the Rule 7-1.b does not apply.

 

You didn't add "not stroke play" until just now. It wasn't in the original comment I quoted and responded to.

 

At the end of the day, if you hit a ball on the golf course, you're playing with fire as far as the rules are concerned. A rule was cited, it is one of the rules that prevents you from playing a ball and calling it "practice," and I said as much in response to your response that it's "reaching." That's all.

post #100 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfreuter415 View Post


A universal solution:  If we could all agree that hitting a breakfast ball is a way of getting a second chance when you do not have a chance to get to the range before your round, then I think the solution is relatively simple...  On the first tee declare that your first swing is not the start of your round, but rather, a "warm up" shot.  Then the first ball would not be in play regardless of where it lands.  Then when you tee up the second ball, that ball is in play.  Every time.

 

I've suggested this. Some have claimed it's against the rules, but have not been able to cite any Rules or Decisions that prevent you from saying "I'm going to hit one practice shot, then start my round with the second ball."

 

I stated it earlier but here it is from the Rules of Golf:

 

 

Quote:

1-1. General 

The Game of Golf consists of playing a ball with a club from the teeing ground into the hole by a stroke or successive strokes in accordance with the Rules.

 

Once you have played a ball from the tee, you have started your round.  It's the first rule in the book.  I also said that as long as you play the practice ball from outside of the teeing ground, you might be able to justify calling it a warm-up ball.  I realize that anyone who believes in the legitimacy of a breakfast ball isn't going to care about the difference here, but since you asked for the rule, there it is.

 

You're really reaching if you think that wording prohibits one from playing a warmup shot from the tee before starting the official round. But even if that's true, then fine - one can play a warmup ball from outside the teeing ground and not be breaking any rules. Problem solved.

 

And btw, there's a big difference between what's ordinarily thought of as a breakfast ball (a do-over if you don't like your first shot), and what I'm talking about (in essence, a warmup from the teeing area that would ordinarily be done from the range, in cases where there is no range or no opportunity to use it.)

 

If you are going to dispute the first rule of golf, then we really don't have much more to talk about.  That answer has been given, and I would wager that any rules expert you ask with tell you the same thing.  You simply chose not to believe it when it was presented in black and white.

 

Here is some more for you to chew on, although it probably is no more convincing to you:

 

 

Quote:

Stipulated Round

The “stipulated round’’ consists of playing the holes of the course in their correct sequence, unless otherwise authorized by the Committee. The number of holes in a stipulated round is 18 unless a smaller number is authorized by the Committee.

 

Again play of a hole begins when a ball is played from the teeing ground, thus play of a stipulated round begins when a ball is played from the teeing ground of the first hole.

post #101 of 358

If you are agreeing to allow a breakfast ball then you are automatically breaking a rule.  No point arguing that one.  If you are in a social round I'm pretty sure that almost no one would argue with you if you announce before hand that you are going to hit a ball into the woods and that you aren't starting your round.  If you are playing in any type or organized event... I don't think I would try it, because it could easily bring up a bad situation.

 

My personal opinion is that if you are allowing a breakfast ball then the best way to do it would be as follows:

 

1.  Hit your tee shot.

 

2.  If you are happy with the result then keep it and play it.

 

3.  If you aren't happy then play another ball... but with the caveat that whatever the result of the 2nd ball is the result you have to live with.

 

This isn't perfect for the purist.  It gives the chance to get rid of a crap first swing if there was not time for the range... but you also have to live with the result of your shot if you choose to play the 2nd ball.  In most cases the player will play the first ball and no rule will have  been broken.  If you do end up playing a 2nd ball then at least there is the normal amount of pressure (and maybe even more) on the shot.

post #102 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

 

Huh? If I'm not playing in a stroke play tournament, the Rule 7-1.b does not apply.

 

You didn't add "not stroke play" until just now. It wasn't in the original comment I quoted and responded to.

 

At the end of the day, if you hit a ball on the golf course, you're playing with fire as far as the rules are concerned. A rule was cited, it is one of the rules that prevents you from playing a ball and calling it "practice," and I said as much in response to your response that it's "reaching." That's all.

 

I added "stroke play" literally seconds after first posting. The reason I did was I remembered practice *is* allowed before the round in match play. 

 

But what difference does it make? If you hadn't seen "stroke play" when you responded, my comment was still valid: There's a rule in place that prohibits practicing before a tournament round. So like I say, that's the reason why PGA Tour players couldn't do it.

 

But that rule does not apply to what I'm talking about, which is a practice ball before a non-tournament round, including rounds played under the rules for handicapping purposes.

post #103 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

But that rule does not apply to what I'm talking about, which is a practice ball before a non-tournament round, including rounds played under the rules for handicapping purposes.

 

See FourPutt's post above. Hit your balls on the range if you want to practice. Don't do it on the first tee (or "near" the first tee).

post #104 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

Again play of a hole begins when a ball is played from the teeing ground, thus play of a stipulated round begins when a ball is played from the teeing ground of the first hole.

 

Sorry, but the rules don't make it that clear. That's the interpretation you choose, but it's not the only possible one. I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't subscribe to the same interpretation as you.

 

Look at it this way:  Am I allowed to play a practice round over 18 holes, then come back to the 1st tee and say "Now I'm playing a stipulated round for score"? If so, am I also allowed to play 4 or 5 holes as practice, then come back to first tee and say "Now I'm playing a stipulated round for score"? If so, am I allowed to play just the first hole as a practice/warmup, then come back to the first tee and say "Now I'm playing a stipulated round for score"?  If so, am I allowed to play just the tee shot as practice/warmup, then say "Now I'm playing a stipulated round for score"?

 

You're saying I can't do the last one. But we all know I can do the first one. So answer this: At what point in between am I breaking the rules of golf? And why at that point?

post #105 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

Again play of a hole begins when a ball is played from the teeing ground, thus play of a stipulated round begins when a ball is played from the teeing ground of the first hole.

 

Sorry, but the rules don't make it that clear. That's the interpretation you choose, but it's not the only possible one. I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't subscribe to the same interpretation as you.

 

Look at it this way:  Am I allowed to play a practice round over 18 holes, then come back to the 1st tee and say "Now I'm playing a stipulated round for score"? If so, am I also allowed to play 4 or 5 holes as practice, then come back to first tee and say "Now I'm playing a stipulated round for score"? If so, am I allowed to play just the first hole as a practice/warmup, then come back to the first tee and say "Now I'm playing a stipulated round for score"?  If so, am I allowed to play just the tee shot as practice/warmup, then say "Now I'm playing a stipulated round for score"?

 

You're saying I can't do the last one. But we all know I can do the first one. So answer this: At what point in between am I breaking the rules of golf? And why at that point?

 

You are grasping at straws, looking for a loophole because you want to find one, not because such actually exists.  The inference in the rule as to what begins a round is perfectly clear to anyone who actually wants to see it.  Since you don't I'm done with this particular conversation.  

post #106 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

Again play of a hole begins when a ball is played from the teeing ground, thus play of a stipulated round begins when a ball is played from the teeing ground of the first hole.

 

Sorry, but the rules don't make it that clear. That's the interpretation you choose, but it's not the only possible one. I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't subscribe to the same interpretation as you.

 

Look at it this way:  Am I allowed to play a practice round over 18 holes, then come back to the 1st tee and say "Now I'm playing a stipulated round for score"? If so, am I also allowed to play 4 or 5 holes as practice, then come back to first tee and say "Now I'm playing a stipulated round for score"? If so, am I allowed to play just the first hole as a practice/warmup, then come back to the first tee and say "Now I'm playing a stipulated round for score"?  If so, am I allowed to play just the tee shot as practice/warmup, then say "Now I'm playing a stipulated round for score"?

 

You're saying I can't do the last one. But we all know I can do the first one. So answer this: At what point in between am I breaking the rules of golf? And why at that point?

 

You are grasping at straws, looking for a loophole because you want to find one, not because such actually exists.  The inference in the rule as to what begins a round is perfectly clear to anyone who actually wants to see it.  Since you don't I'm done with this particular conversation.  

 

Fine, but seems like I asked a pretty simple question that you didn't have an answer for.

 

And I'm not looking for a loophole. I'll probably never do a practice ball as I'm describing. I'm just looking for a logical, rule-based rationale for your position.

post #107 of 358

 

I looked through the thread, and didn't see where anyone had quoted the actual decision that pertains.  I apologize if I missed it, but decision 7-1b/1 pertains to your question with respect to hitting a practice ball outside of the first tee teeing area.....

 

 

7-1b/1

One Practice Stroke Played on Course Before Stroke-Play Round

 

Q.On the day of a stroke-play competition, a competitor, before starting his round, played one practice stroke from a forward tee at the first hole into an out-of-bounds area. What is the ruling?

 

A.The competitor infringed Rule 7-1b and was subject to disqualification. However, the Committee would be justified, in the circumstances, in modifying the penalty to two strokes under Rule 33-7. If the competitor played more than one such stroke, modification of the disqualification penalty would not be appropriate.

post #108 of 358

I'd look at it outside the rules and just see if the practice ball on the first tee gives a different advantage vs just warming up in the range.  (what would be the justification of the rule)

 

Seems to me, that there are some fairways that have particular roll characteristics, and a halfway decent practice shot (declared or not) would give a player special information in how to hit his official shot (think of the roll out on a fairway that feeds the ball left to right, etc....)  (of course, you also get that if you just watch the other guys' shots too).

 

So if one wants to be pissy about it, then practice hits should happen on the practice range, not on the course itself.  Practice on the 1st tee could give more info than just practice on the range.

 

Personally, I don't care if someone does or not in casual play.  I play my game, they can play theirs.
 

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