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Two Holes cut in the Green - Which to Play To? - Page 2

post #19 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanson View Post
 

i came across this today - each green had two holes cut into the green, one with a flag in it and the other without a flag. these weren't "shared" greens, but it was a nine-hole course. i'm assuming they didn't replug the old holes when they cut the new one since all the grass is still dormant? i really have no idea. 

 

the question is, what happens when/if your ball finds its way to the hole w/o a pin in it? do you remove it from the hole and place it in a position no closer to the actual pin, but in a manner that ensures that the old hole isn't in your line of play? i would assume that to be the case, since it is a man-made, immovable obstruction. 

 

You are correct. The hole is a hole made by maintenance and as such a GUR. 

 

Rule 25-1 states:

 

a. Interference 
Interference by an abnormal ground condition occurs when a ball lies in or touches the condition or when the condition interferes with the player's stance or the area of his intended swing. If the player's ball lies on the putting green, interference also occurs if an abnormal ground condition on the putting green intervenes on his line of putt. Otherwise, intervention on the line of play is not, of itself, interference under this Rule.

post #20 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanson View Post
 

i came across this today - each green had two holes cut into the green, one with a flag in it and the other without a flag. these weren't "shared" greens, but it was a nine-hole course. i'm assuming they didn't replug the old holes when they cut the new one since all the grass is still dormant? i really have no idea. 

 

the question is, what happens when/if your ball finds its way to the hole w/o a pin in it? do you remove it from the hole and place it in a position no closer to the actual pin, but in a manner that ensures that the old hole isn't in your line of play? i would assume that to be the case, since it is a man-made, immovable obstruction. 

 

It is not an obstruction.  It is a hole made by a greenkeeper, meaning that relief comes under Rule 25 - Abnormal Ground.  This is the relief procedure for abnormal ground on the putting green:

 

Quote:
 On the Putting Green: If the ball lies on the putting green, the player must lift the ball and place it, without penalty, at the nearest point of relief that is not in a hazard or, if complete relief is impossible, at the nearest position to where it lay that affords maximum available relief from the condition, but not nearer thehole and not in a hazard. The nearest point of relief or maximum available relief may be off the putting green.
post #21 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

It is not an obstruction.  It is a hole made by a greenkeeper, meaning that relief comes under Rule 25 - Abnormal Ground.  This is the relief procedure for abnormal ground on the putting green:

 

 

 

 

It may in fact be both. Relief may be taken under 24-2b(iii).

post #22 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulesman View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

It is not an obstruction.  It is a hole made by a greenkeeper, meaning that relief comes under Rule 25 - Abnormal Ground.  This is the relief procedure for abnormal ground on the putting green:

 

 

 

 

It may in fact be both. Relief may be taken under 24-2b(iii).

 

I think that only applies if it has a liner installed.

post #23 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

I think that only applies if it has a liner installed.

 

I understand the RBs consider it satisfies both definitions. Academic really.

post #24 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanson View Post
 

i came across this today - each green had two holes cut into the green, one with a flag in it and the other without a flag. these weren't "shared" greens, but it was a nine-hole course. i'm assuming they didn't replug the old holes when they cut the new one since all the grass is still dormant? i really have no idea. 

 

the question is, what happens when/if your ball finds its way to the hole w/o a pin in it? do you remove it from the hole and place it in a position no closer to the actual pin, but in a manner that ensures that the old hole isn't in your line of play? i would assume that to be the case, since it is a man-made, immovable obstruction. 

 

Some courses around here do that during the winter.  I dont know if its due to staff reductions during the winter or because its harder cut the holes when the ground is frozen.  But they cut two holes in the green and you play to the one with the flag.  After holing out, you put the flag in the other hole.  I think its supposed to keep the holes a bit fresher.  

 

Some guy flew up to my group once furious and cursing at us because he thought we were moving the flags to screw with him.  

post #25 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulesman View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

I think that only applies if it has a liner installed.

 

I understand the RBs consider it satisfies both definitions. Academic really.

 

The relief is the same either way. :smartass:

post #26 of 32

This is not the same situation as OP encountered, but here's something I saw many years ago on public courses: the greens crew would cut two cups into each green. The idea was to swap the flagstick from cup to cup to prevent a single cup from getting too beat up during heavy play.

 

Let's say the flagstick was in the "left" cup when you played the hole. When you putted out you would move the flag to the "right" cup for the next group.

 

So, if you find a green with two cups and just one flag, this is what you're supposed to do.

 

As anyone seen this in current days?

post #27 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by WUTiger View Post
 

This is not the same situation as OP encountered, but here's something I saw many years ago on public courses: the greens crew would cut two cups into each green. The idea was to swap the flagstick from cup to cup to prevent a single cup from getting too beat up during heavy play.

 

Let's say the flagstick was in the "left" cup when you played the hole. When you putted out you would move the flag to the "right" cup for the next group.

 

So, if you find a green with two cups and just one flag, this is what you're supposed to do.

 

As anyone seen this in current days?

We do that in the winter.

post #28 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by WUTiger View Post
 

This is not the same situation as OP encountered, but here's something I saw many years ago on public courses: the greens crew would cut two cups into each green. The idea was to swap the flagstick from cup to cup to prevent a single cup from getting too beat up during heavy play.

 

Let's say the flagstick was in the "left" cup when you played the hole. When you putted out you would move the flag to the "right" cup for the next group.

 

So, if you find a green with two cups and just one flag, this is what you're supposed to do.

 

As anyone seen this in current days?

 

My home course doesn't do it that way.  They cut 3 or 4 holes sometime in the late fall after the handicap season ends.  They put the flag in one and cap the others.  About every 3rd or 4th day they rotate to a different hole.  The holes are mostly cut about 8-10 feet from the edges of the green to help minimize traffic across the middle, as well as to reduce the chance that a dormant hole will come into play.  They don't cut any new holes until the next spring.  This system seems to work just as well as the above plan, but doesn't depend on the players to do the job.

post #29 of 32

So a course I play has a extra large green shared by two holes.  This green has two cups with two flags, one for each hole.  The cups and flags are set at a place where it is obvious which cup is for which hole.  So it seems obvious, but how do we really know which cup is for which hole?

post #30 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndb8fxe View Post
 

So a course I play has a extra large green shared by two holes.  This green has two cups with two flags, one for each hole.  The cups and flags are set at a place where it is obvious which cup is for which hole.  So it seems obvious, but how do we really know which cup is for which hole?

Does the flag have a number, or the score card have a layout of the hole? I've seen this before and it will usually be a different flag color for each hole or within the local rules on the score card. If all else fails call the pro shop and ask which flag is for which hole.

post #31 of 32

The convention here is that the flags on the outward half are a different colour (e.g. yellow) from the flags on th inward half (e.g. red) and since generally you would expect double greens to comprise an outward hole and an inward hole, there is not problem ....... provided you don't have a senior moment and forget which way round the colours are.;-)

post #32 of 32
I've only played one course that had two flags on the same green but there is such a steep and high hill separating the two pin areas, and since the holes are leading in from opposite directions, one could easily play the course and never realize that another pin is on the other side of the slope either time.

I'm afraid if the pins were on each side of the green I would wipe out another group with one of my hooks. a2_wink.gif

BTW (just in case it ever comes up). Do you wait for another group at the other pin to clear the green or just take your chances on being accurate?
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