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Pace of play scenario - Page 5

post #73 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by scam3bill View Post


You're not saying anything new. No matter how you slice it, whether you all hit off the tee or not, at some point the group has to let you go on ahead. That's five minutes you've added to their round, and as we've explained, it *is* cumulative.


It is not cumulative is cost you 5 minutes, nothing else. You will wait 5 minutes on me and never be held up any longer

post #74 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by cda77 View Post


I disagree.  Sorry.  The rule states faster players to play through.  Doesn't state anything about keeping pace with the group in front of you.  Speed is relative and if left to someone else to judge, it doesn't work.  To me a 4 hour round might be way off pace and slow, to you it might be extremely fast or comfortable  So if I come upon your group, your thought is hey we are playing fast, no reason to let him play through.  That's not the intent of the rule. 

I'm asking because I don't know...but is this an actual USGA rule or just a rule by local clubs? Because most clubs I have been to also have a rule regarding the pace of play they expect. So it's pretty easy to define "fast" or "slow" based on that pace. 

 

I'm not sure this is even a hard "rule," I've always thought of it more like a suggestion by the club just like their pace of play. You don't get knocked points or kicked out for missing the pace by 5 seconds, and they aren't going to be strict about making everyone play through no matter what. It's just a general suggestion of etiquette when possible. If everyone is playing to the club pace of play, the club wouldn't have any reason to expect players playing faster than that pace to be able to play through.

post #75 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by cda77 View Post


I disagree.  Sorry.  The rule states faster players to play through.  Doesn't state anything about keeping pace with the group in front of you.  Speed is relative and if left to someone else to judge, it doesn't work.  To me a 4 hour round might be way off pace and slow, to you it might be extremely fast or comfortable  So if I come upon your group, your thought is hey we are playing fast, no reason to let him play through.  That's not the intent of the rule. 

Although I don't disagree that more people should let faster groups through, I think you are citing something other than a rule... many score cards simply say "keep pace with the group ahead of you"...

 

For instance..

http://lakepaddengolf.com/course/scorecard.html

post #76 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by cda77 View Post


It is not cumulative is cost you 5 minutes, nothing else. You will wait 5 minutes on me and never be held up any longer

 

What FourPutt stated is correct if there are groups all the way up to the 18th hole, then you would end up disrupting the entire chain of play. Plus, it is extremely rare for the starter to let you go out as a single on a really crowded day.

 

On the other hand, if there are 5 minute gaps in play, then you are correct. However, this is only when the courses are less crowded.

 

I think it would be funny to be pushing a group ahead of you only to be blocking them the rest of the day. That's why I'm pretty relaxed about it.

 

BTW, post 600.

post #77 of 110

CDA

What is it you don't comprehend? Or do you and you refuse to be wrong and argumentiitive!

With you're vision I would say if you come up behind me while were keeping pace, and illustrate you're rule of playing thru, you'd be wearing a 7 iron around your neck.

Admit you're a rabblerouser troll and move on.

You have no meaning of any "rule"

post #78 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittler View Post

Although I don't disagree that more people should let faster groups through, I think you are citing something other than a rule... many score cards simply say "keep pace with the group ahead of you"...

 

For instance..

http://lakepaddengolf.com/course/scorecard.html


Technically, by letting someone through for 5 minutes, you wouldn't you be violating that statement on the scorecard?

post #79 of 110

I missed this thread ... was a very entertaining read for the last few minutes. ;)  My take:  This is a ridiculous scenario that I've never seen come up.  For one, busy courses around here don't let out singles.  However, I guess I can see that near the end of the day if you get out as a single you could catch up to a "wall of foursomes."  At that point it seems like you have two choices:

 

1.  Fall in line with everybody else because we're all waiting.

 

2.  Skip ahead of the wall and come back to those holes later.

 

If the course allows fivesomes, and you ask (nicely) I'd be inclined to let you join up with us for the rest of the round, since we're waiting anyway, but I see no reason to allow somebody to play through when there is nowhere to go.

post #80 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by cda77 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lash View Post

 

But you take this phrase and assume that any faster player has the right of way, but I don't think that is the intent. You really should think of it the other way around, slower players letting others go through. Just because someone behind you is flying through, doesn't mean you have to get out of their way. If you are keeping up with the group ahead of you, that is all you can do. You are playing as fast as possible for you, so there is no "faster player."


I disagree.  Sorry.  The rule states faster players to play through.  Doesn't state anything about keeping pace with the group in front of you.  Speed is relative and if left to someone else to judge, it doesn't work.  To me a 4 hour round might be way off pace and slow, to you it might be extremely fast or comfortable  So if I come upon your group, your thought is hey we are playing fast, no reason to let him play through.  That's not the intent of the rule. 

 

It isn't a rule, it's a course policy, and it changes from course to course.  In reality it is a recommendation, not a mandate.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cda77 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by scam3bill View Post


You're not saying anything new. No matter how you slice it, whether you all hit off the tee or not, at some point the group has to let you go on ahead. That's five minutes you've added to their round, and as we've explained, it *is* cumulative.


It is not cumulative is cost you 5 minutes, nothing else. You will wait 5 minutes on me and never be held up any longer

 

And the group behind you is waiting on us while we wait on you.  Then the next time we wait on the group ahead of us which is waiting on you while you play through them.  Then we wait on the group in front of us while they wait on the group ahead of them while you play through them, and on and on. g1_wacko.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittler View Post

Although I don't disagree that more people should let faster groups through, I think you are citing something other than a rule... many score cards simply say "keep pace with the group ahead of you"...

 

For instance..

http://lakepaddengolf.com/course/scorecard.html


Technically, by letting someone through for 5 minutes, you wouldn't you be violating that statement on the scorecard?

 

Yep.

post #81 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by cda77 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by scam3bill View Post


You're not saying anything new. No matter how you slice it, whether you all hit off the tee or not, at some point the group has to let you go on ahead. That's five minutes you've added to their round, and as we've explained, it *is* cumulative.


It is not cumulative is cost you 5 minutes, nothing else. You will wait 5 minutes on me and never be held up any longer

 

Just noticed your little joke there. Well played sir.

post #82 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyc View Post

CDA

What is it you don't comprehend? Or do you and you refuse to be wrong and argumentative!

With you're vision I would say if you come up behind me while were keeping pace, and illustrate you're rule of playing thru, you'd be wearing a 7 iron around your neck.

Admit you're a rabblerouser troll and move on.

You have no meaning of any "rule"

Jeez Jimmy, what is it you don't comprehend or is it that you just want to be argumentative?   The rule, suggestion or just the decent thing to do is let faster players play through, been that way for a hundred years, still works.  If that makes me a troll so be it.  It works 100% of the time as long as everybody follows the rule, that is a fact. 

post #83 of 110

Yea,cda

I'll let you play through to get to the group in front of me that's holding up everyone and won't let YOU play through............NOT!

post #84 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by cda77 View Post

Jeez Jimmy, what is it you don't comprehend or is it that you just want to be argumentative?

 

You do realize that virtually everyone else is saying the same thing about you, right?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cda77 View Post

The rule, suggestion or just the decent thing to do is let faster players play through, been that way for a hundred years, still works.

 

It doesn't work in ALL situations. Namely, the one you've made up where everyone is waiting on everyone in front of them. In those situations, letting a single through has a cascading cumulative negative effect. The single might finish his round sooner, but 4 x (number of other foursomes) all finish slower than they otherwise would have. It's punishing the many (especially the groups on the earlier holes) for the benefit of ONE.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cda77 View Post

It works 100% of the time as long as everybody follows the rule, that is a fact. 

 

No it's not.

post #85 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyc View Post

Yea,cda

I'll let you play through to get to the group in front of me that's holding up everyone and won't let YOU play through............NOT!


You see Jimmy, that is the entire point.  What would it cost you by doing that?  You punish the people behind, including yourself instead of addressing the issue which is the group in front not letting people play through.

post #86 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

You do realize that virtually everyone else is saying the same thing about you, right?

 

 

It doesn't work in ALL situations. Namely, the one you've made up where everyone is waiting on everyone in front of them. In those situations, letting a single through has a cascading cumulative negative effect. The single might finish his round sooner, but 4 x (number of other foursomes) all finish slower than they otherwise would have. It's punishing the many (especially the groups on the earlier holes) for the benefit of ONE.

 

 

No it's not.


I was quoting EXACTLY what he said about me.  If you notice, I haven't made any of this personal.  I have stated my arguments in a manner that at least I believe are accurate, logical and correct.   What I have gotten back is name calling and asked to have my opinion squashed.  Hey this is your site, if you want me to leave say so.  But at least recognize, I believe I am correct just as much as you believe you are correct.  My proof is my experience.  The fact that many on this thread disagree with me doesn't make them right.  BTW it does work, put a single on the 1st tee with 36 foursomes in front of him and they all let him play through just as I have stated, they will lose very little time.  Just because you and others disagree, doesn't make you right, anymore than it makes me right.

The problem when it comes to slow play and following rules is you condone people on the course to arbitrarily decided what is correct.  As I have pointed out several times, just because you can see there are two or three foursomes in front you  and you ASSUME there is no where for a twosome to go, this could be completely false and should not be up to some guy on the 6th tee to decide.  OR it could be 100% accurate and by following the rule of etiquette you could cost yourself half a lousy hole by letting someone play through. 

Now notice, there is no personal attacks in my response.  I am not calling you a troll or any of the other names I have been called in this thread just because you don't agree with my point of view.   I am just simply stating with logic why I believe I am 100% correct and the rules of golf etiquette agree with me, not with you. But again, I admit I may be wrong, I have also admitted and agreed with several to disagree. 

Slower players move backwards while faster players move forward, that is the logic behind the rule and why it works,

Want me gone, just say so or shut my account off, but at least have the guts to recognize, just because you think I am wrong, doesn't make you right.

post #87 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by cda77 View Post

But at least recognize, I believe I am correct just as much as you believe you are correct.  My proof is my experience.

 

Your experience is not proof of anything, especially when all someone has to do to refute it is say "my experience is the opposite." That gets us nowhere. People have used logic, but you've steadfastly said "nah" to it and so we just end up going 'round and 'round with you.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cda77 View Post

The fact that many on this thread disagree with me doesn't make them right.

 

No, but it's usually a good indicator that you should probably step back and re-assess some things.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cda77 View Post

BTW it does work, put a single on the 1st tee with 36 foursomes in front of him and they all let him play through just as I have stated, they will lose very little time.

 

No they won't.

 

Since "just stating something" seems to be your way of making it true, there, I've now done the same. Do you see how ineffective this form of "discussion" is?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cda77 View Post

The problem when it comes to slow play and following rules is you condone people on the course to arbitrarily decided what is correct. As I have pointed out several times, just because you can see there are two or three foursomes in front you and you ASSUME there is no where for a twosome to go, this could be completely false and should not be up to some guy on the 6th tee to decide.  OR it could be 100% accurate and by following the rule of etiquette you could cost yourself half a lousy hole by letting someone play through.

 

Your "time math" has been exposed, IMO, as faulty.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cda77 View Post

I am just simply stating with logic why I believe I am 100% correct and the rules of golf etiquette agree with me, not with you.

 

  1. There's no real logic in your posts. I have a high regard for what qualifies as "logic" and again, simply stating something over and over as you've done is not "logic."
  2. The "rules" of etiquette most certainly do NOT agree with you. They are more nuanced than "let faster groups through 100% of the time."

 

The second is the thing which virtually everyone is saying to you, which you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cda77 View Post

Want me gone, just say so or shut my account off, but at least have the guts to recognize, just because you think I am wrong, doesn't make you right.

 

Enough of the stupid martyr act please. And take your own advice, eh?

post #88 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

Your experience is not proof of anything, especially when all someone has to do to refute it is say "my experience is the opposite." That gets us nowhere. People have used logic, but you've steadfastly said "nah" to it and so we just end up going 'round and 'round with you.h

Neither is your experience proof of anything HENCE you think I am wrong just like I think you are wrong.  BTW it's not golf experience I am referring too, but that doesn't matter.

 

 

No, but it's usually a good indicator that you should probably step back and re-assess some things.

Perhaps and I would rethink my position if somebody offered proof that I am wrong.  But it's just their opinion just like it's my opinion that I am correct.  The exact same thing you accuse and condemn me of, you condone in others.

 

No they won't.

 

Since "just stating something" seems to be your way of making it true, there, I've now done the same. Do you see how ineffective this form of "discussion" is?

OK, you are right, I cannot prove or expect you to take my word for the statement above.  But again, you accept 'just stating' something from everyone else in this thread, including yourself. 

 

 

Your "time math" has been exposed, IMO, as faulty.

You are entitled to it.

 

 

  1. There's no real logic in your posts. I have a high regard for what qualifies as "logic" and again, simply stating something over and over as you've done is not "logic."  There is logic in my posts, you just don't agree with it and I have proven my point with several different examples.  I am not stating the same thing over and over.
  2. The "rules" of etiquette most certainly do NOT agree with you. They are more nuanced than "let faster groups through 100% of the time."  Says whom, you?  Funny when I read a score card that simply states allow faster players to play through, I don't read any nuance in that.  It's about as straight forwards as it gets. You see, it's not up to you as a player, in the middle of the course, to decide.  Simply allow faster players to play through.  If you are interested in following golf etiquette.

 

The second is the thing which virtually everyone is saying to you, which you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge.  IMO you all are stubbornly refusing to accept it's not your place to decide.  Do you repair your ball marks?  Probably yours and a couple more.  Why?  It's etiquette, you hope the players in front of you are doing the same for the good of the greens and putting.  The same applies to let faster players play through. 

 

 

Enough of the stupid martyr act please. And take your own advice, eh?  LMFAO, not being a martyr and wow are you a hypocrite.  Good Luck

post #89 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by cda77 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

Your experience is not proof of anything, especially when all someone has to do to refute it is say "my experience is the opposite." That gets us nowhere. People have used logic, but you've steadfastly said "nah" to it and so we just end up going 'round and 'round with you.h

Neither is your experience proof of anything HENCE you think I am wrong just like I think you are wrong.  BTW it's not golf experience I am referring too, but that doesn't matter.

 

 

No, but it's usually a good indicator that you should probably step back and re-assess some things.

Perhaps and I would rethink my position if somebody offered proof that I am wrong.  But it's just their opinion just like it's my opinion that I am correct.  The exact same thing you accuse and condemn me of, you condone in others.

 

No they won't.

 

Since "just stating something" seems to be your way of making it true, there, I've now done the same. Do you see how ineffective this form of "discussion" is?

OK, you are right, I cannot prove or expect you to take my word for the statement above.  But again, you accept 'just stating' something from everyone else in this thread, including yourself. 

 

 

Your "time math" has been exposed, IMO, as faulty.

You are entitled to it.

 

 

  1. There's no real logic in your posts. I have a high regard for what qualifies as "logic" and again, simply stating something over and over as you've done is not "logic."  There is logic in my posts, you just don't agree with it and I have proven my point with several different examples.  I am not stating the same thing over and over.
  2. The "rules" of etiquette most certainly do NOT agree with you. They are more nuanced than "let faster groups through 100% of the time."  Says whom, you?  Funny when I read a score card that simply states allow faster players to play through, I don't read any nuance in that.  It's about as straight forwards as it gets. You see, it's not up to you as a player, in the middle of the course, to decide.  Simply allow faster players to play through.  If you are interested in following golf etiquette.

 

The second is the thing which virtually everyone is saying to you, which you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge.  IMO you all are stubbornly refusing to accept it's not your place to decide.  Do you repair your ball marks?  Probably yours and a couple more.  Why?  It's etiquette, you hope the players in front of you are doing the same for the good of the greens and putting.  The same applies to let faster players play through. 

 

 

Enough of the stupid martyr act please. And take your own advice, eh?  LMFAO, not being a martyr and wow are you a hypocrite.  Good Luck

 

It's also etiquette on your part as your hypothetical single not to be responsible for inconveniencing and delaying a whole field of players in front of you just to assuage your one-sided sense of entitlement.  Etiquette is a two way street, and the logic and reason which you think of as your personal property also applies to you in your single minded pursuit of course disruption.

post #90 of 110

cda ... I think you are confusing BEING fast with having the capability of being fast.  Here's a fun little analogy ...

 

I'm driving in the fast lane at 75 mph in my SUV and I see you coming up behind me in your Porsche at a considerably faster pace, if there is open road in front of me, I will pull over to let you pass.  However, if I pull up to the back end of a traffic jam, is it your contention that I, and all other non sports cars lined up in front of me should take time out of our day to politely pull over and let you pass because you are capable of driving faster?

 

Nope, sorry, it doesn't work that way.  If you have a car that you want to drive fast, its on you to go find an open road to let it out.

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