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Do you drive 250+ yards and have a 20+ handicap? - Page 7

post #109 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkim291968 View Post

 

I am playing on a hilly course (Northern California) that is usually accompanied by 10+ mph wind.   The hills can be very steep around here.  When I hit a nice draw at lower trajectory on this steep downhill and down wind hole, the ball runs forever.   All I need to do is carry 240 yards (with wind) and I will get a 60 yard roll.   Going the other direction against wind and up hill, my 220 yard carry becomes 200 against wind and the uphill knocks down another 10 - 20 yards.   That's how I got180 yard drive on the next hole.   But the average works out - 300 + 180 / 2 = 240 yards which is what I can average if I hit every drive solidly on flat fairway.

 

An extremely case of down hill and down wind drive - I hit 360 yards once.   The hole has two levels of very steep down hill, one hill after another with a tiny flat area in between.   If you can hit past the 1st down hill and the small flat area, the ball rolls down another 80 yards.   But the hills so steep, I screwed up the 2nd shot and ended up with a double I think.   Anyway, come out to Norther California and play at a few hilly courses and you will see what I mean.

 

That sounds legit. The blackhills have many hilly courses like that and I still don't experience that much varibility but I can understand how that is possible. I just find it hard to believe a lot of players see that variance though. For those, like you, that play hilly courses normally then maybe but for the majority of golfers it shouldn't be like that. I think.....
post #110 of 140
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motown88 View Post

Why is driving range 230-280 yards? That's a huge window and sounds like a swing issue. A poor shot for me may travel 10-15 yards shorter then my typical drive. Hitting nearly 50 yards shorter seems to be a bigger issue. I see that you're playing at a high handicap so this does make a little sense. As I believe I said earlier in this thread and as many others have said work on your short game. If you experiencing that much variability on your long shots a more consistent short game can drasitically improve your overall scores and thus lower your handicap
I agree, but its not unusual for someone in the 20 HC range.

My carry range is about 190 to 230 on the driving range, but usually it's obvious why it goes short. Generally, I mis-hit the face, or had an obvious swing fault. When everything comes together, I can carry a lot further. This happens so rarely at the moment I don't even admit to having done it.
post #111 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1484 View Post

I'm with all of the guys who have said some variation of "accuracy is better than length for the beginner to intermediate player."  I have been playing regularly for about a year and a half.  Last year's goal was to break 100.  This year's goal to break 90.  I am not an especially big hitter (a "crushed" drive might be 250, and I'm pretty sure I've never carried one more than 260 even at altitude).  However, a month ago I stopped hitting driver altogether and have played only 3 wood off the tee.  Since making that move, I've been about 5-7 strokes better over the last 8 rounds or than when I was hitting the driver.  So, at least for me, getting the 3 wood in the middle of the fairway and giving up 20-25 yards has been well worth it in terms of improving scoring.  

I can see a future where the length will matter more but for my level of consistency I get way more bang for my buck from starting off on the fairway than the extra distance.  

Course this all begs the question of why I can't make the same f__king swing with the driver as I make with the 3W, but that's for another thread...

The key for me breaking 100 was putting the driver in timeout, and teeing off with a 3w. Soft and consistent, my 3W was my best friend. A pretty 210 every time, little pull-fade.

Ironically the key to breaking 90 for me was to put the driver back into play. People that spray off the tee have no idea how many strokes their drivers cost them (myself included until several months ago).
post #112 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJBam View Post

People that spray off the tee have no idea how many strokes their drivers cost them (myself included until several months ago).

 

At least 5 shots today lol.

 

Saved me a bunch of shots too though...meh, win some lose some? :-p

post #113 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post

At least 5 shots today lol.

Saved me a bunch of shots too though...meh, win some lose some? :-p

Huge congrats on your 87 by the way! Here's to high eighties being the new norm for you. :)
post #114 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJBam View Post


Huge congrats on your 87 by the way! Here's to high eighties being the new norm for you. :)

 

Thanks man! Now that Erik has my irons doing what they're supposed to do, I really think it will be. I really felt like I played like garbage today...feel like I should have been in the 70s...and I think I will be very soon...(on easy courses at least haha)

post #115 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post

Thanks man! Now that Erik has my irons doing what they're supposed to do, I really think it will be. I really felt like I played like garbage today...feel like I should have been in the 70s...and I think I will be very soon...(on easy courses at least haha)

You know you're obligated to wear TST hat and polo when you golf now... As payment for your free pro coddling a2_wink.gif
post #116 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJBam View Post


You know you're obligated to wear TST hat and polo when you golf now... As payment for your free pro coddling a2_wink.gif

 

 

lol

 

If they give me one, I'll wear it. ;)

post #117 of 140
Quote:

To touch base on hitting a 300 yard drive followed by a 180 yard drive, I honestly don't see how that is possible. I play in South Dakota in the plains where we often have winds greater than 20mph. Maybe it's my low ball flight that presents less variability in my driving distance, but I don't see how you can vary by that much. I feel, and I could be wrong, that if you're experiencing that much variability either you're not hitting consistent shots or you're producing a lot of backspin and really ballooning all your shots into the wind.

 

Along the Front Range of the Rockies in Denver we get fall and winter winds up to 100 mph (which I don't play in) when a weather front is pushing over the Continental Divide, and I've played in nearly 50 mph winds.  I played a 399 yard par four with 3 solid shots - driver, 3W, 8I - and was still short of the green - chipped up and one putted for bogey.  The next hole is a 520 yard par 5 and I played driver (323 yards GPS measured), 8I, and 2 putt birdie.  No elevation change to speak of, the only difference was wind direction.  And yes, I know how to play a knock down shot into the wind - that's golf survival 101 in Colorado.

post #118 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

Along the Front Range of the Rockies in Denver we get fall and winter winds up to 100 mph (which I don't play in) when a weather front is pushing over the Continental Divide, and I've played in nearly 50 mph winds.  I played a 399 yard par four with 3 solid shots - driver, 3W, 8I - and was still short of the green - chipped up and one putted for bogey.  The next hole is a 520 yard par 5 and I played driver (323 yards GPS measured), 8I, and 2 putt birdie.  No elevation change to speak of, the only difference was wind direction.  And yes, I know how to play a knock down shot into the wind - that's golf survival 101 in Colorado.

 

I'm not disputing that what you said isn't possible, as clearly it is in some weather situations. I'm curious to know what peoples ball flights are that experience this sort of variance. I'm accustomed to playing in extrememly windy situations and don't experience that drastic of a change.


Has anyone done research on how wind effects different ball flights. I'd be interested to know how much more impact wind has on a higher ball flight then on a lower ball like mine.

post #119 of 140
Quote:

Originally Posted by Motown88 View Post

 

Has anyone done research on how wind effects different ball flights. I'd be interested to know how much more impact wind has on a higher ball flight then on a lower ball like mine.

 

I did read up on it some time ago.  There is a lot written about it so it isn't hard to research it.  The gist of my readings and experience are that your higher flight will carry the ball farther with back wind.  As one of my golf partner said it, "let it ride."  Against wind, it will have opposite effect.   I've seen my ball get under the wind and push it much higher instead of keep going forward.  Hence, hitting a knockdown shot against wind is a must.   I am not good with a knockdown shot so I just bring low trajectory balls when there is a lot of wind.  

post #120 of 140

A big factor in how much is lost into the wind is how much roll out there is. Where I play the most there is very little roll under any conditions and if it's wet there's almost none, and even a low punch is likely to plug. When the wind is blowing more than 25 or 30 mph there is easily a 100 yard difference from upwind to downwind tee shots for everybody on the course.

 

On other courses I can gain back a good portion of the lack of carry into the wind by getting more roll out by hitting a lower trajectory into the wind, and the difference between downwind and into the wind isn't nearly as drastic.

post #121 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkim291968 View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motown88 View Post

 

Has anyone done research on how wind effects different ball flights. I'd be interested to know how much more impact wind has on a higher ball flight then on a lower ball like mine.

 

I did read up on it some time ago.  There is a lot written about it so it isn't hard to research it.  The gist of my readings and experience are that your higher flight will carry the ball farther with back wind.  As one of my golf partner said it, "let it ride."  Against wind, it will have opposite effect.   I've seen my ball get under the wind and push it much higher instead of keep going forward.  Hence, hitting a knockdown shot against wind is a must.   I am not good with a knockdown shot so I just bring low trajectory balls when there is a lot of wind.  

 

Believe it or not, this isn't always true.  I've played with strong tailwinds which actually took the lift from the spin off the ball and knocked it down short of even a normal shot.  It usually occurs with short irons or wedges where the flight trajectory is heavily influenced by the backspin on the ball.  In a strong tailwind, the ball has less airspeed, and thus less air for the spin to "bite" into.  The ball seems to start well off the club when the ball path is mostly a result of the impact, but when the spin should start to take over and carry the ball higher, it just drops like a rock.

post #122 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

Believe it or not, this isn't always true.  I've played with strong tailwinds which actually took the lift from the spin off the ball and knocked it down short of even a normal shot.  It usually occurs with short irons or wedges where the flight trajectory is heavily influenced by the backspin on the ball.  In a strong tailwind, the ball has less airspeed, and thus less air for the spin to "bite" into.  The ball seems to start well off the club when the ball path is mostly a result of the impact, but when the spin should start to take over and carry the ball higher, it just drops like a rock.

 

Interesting.   I have not seen one happened to me yet.  But I don't have whole lot of spin on my wedge shots so I only see my ball move with the wind direction.  

post #123 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkim291968 View Post

 

Interesting.   I have not seen one happened to me yet.  But I don't have whole lot of spin on my wedge shots so I only see my ball move with the wind direction.  

 

It definitely happens.  You'll know it within a second of the ball coming off the clubface.  It kind of shoots forward but starts coming down rapidly instead of staying on the normal trajectory.  Sometimes it will still take a hard bounce and release a bit, but other times will come up way short.

post #124 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkim291968 View Post

 

Interesting.   I have not seen one happened to me yet.  But I don't have whole lot of spin on my wedge shots so I only see my ball move with the wind direction.  

I had one of those yesterday on a 145 yard par 3 with a 9 iron. It was downwind and should have been the perfect club but I hit it so solidly that as it was flying toward the flag stick my only thought was that I had hit it entirely too hard and it was going to fly the green (which is dead on that hole). One of my teammates was saying "Get down". Unfortunately it did...Five yards short of the green.

 

Other days the same shot hit the same way would be over the green. Funny thing was that nobody learned from it and all four people in our group all ended up short as well. Probably one bad thing about playing a hole we've all played so many times before is that we are so dead set on which club we need to hit that we aren't willing to change based on what we see from players hitting in front of us, even if we know their game and distances well. 

post #125 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey View Post

 

Also, I see many, many players who consider themselves big hitters fully capable of hitting 250 yard drives (and on occasion really crush it down the middle), but they don't find the fairway enough to score well.  Same experience I had with driver.  But they still pull it out every hole.  Often times, about the 5th hole they'll notice and inquire why I'm hitting iron or hybrid or 3-wood again.  And the answer is because I'm trying to keep the score under control.

 

A really great drive down the middle saves you somewhere between 0 and 1 strokes per hole probably.  But one in the woods can add 2-3 sometimes.  So if you hit 50% of fairways, it could cost you 10 strokes per round pretty easy.  So - to make a long story long - I'd think a lot of 250 guys are just too wild off the tee.

 

^^ this, very much so.  i abandoned the driver completely this season, and i think it's rubbing off on my league-mates (one is sticking to his long irons, another bought new fairways woods and is using them more often).

 

i'm a 20+ and hopefully coming down.  i've only played one round with my new 3w, but i was consistently carrying it 225-230 with up to 30yds of roll on some holes, so i think i fit into the category listed for this thread.  it's been an adventure this season reconfiguring my swing... got my chipping under control, following by pitching, now my putting stroke is back on track (i hope).

 

 

but the one thing that was consistently holding me back was hitting OB (my league course plays outside-to-in around fields, and with the exception of three holes you can hit it OB on just about any one of them).  if your swing is off, or if you blade an approach over the green, you can add a LOT of strokes very easily.  i started hitting irons off the tee on most holes where the danger of hitting OB is higher, and my scores have dropped dramatically week to week. 

 

quite often, my opponents are in the wrong fairway.  hitting it far is meaningless if it's frequently that far offline.  and it's funny, most guys i've played against just automatically pull out the driver at every par 4 or 5, no thought whatsoever, whether they hit 50% of fairways or not.

 

there's something to be said for playing it safe.  learn to swallow your ego and the game becomes a lot more manageable (and fun).

post #126 of 140

A little something I noticed at the BO this weekend - Phil isn't even carrying a driver these days - apparently Calloway has created him some kind of 2-wood.  And he is playing some really good golf.  Also, on Saturday sometime, Tiger pulled his out for the first time of the tournament.  And he played pretty well, too.

 

I think the moral of the story might be to hit the longest club that you have a high percentage chance of keeping in the fairway - even if it is a lot less club than you pictured - and especially if you are a higher handicap - and if you don't have Slice Of Life's somewhat unique problem of being better at a 200 yard shot than a 100 yard shot.

 

I think I wrote this before, but 20+ caps aren't getting many GIR's on 350 yard holes anyway - so usually on in 3.  With 3 decent 7-irons, you can cover 450 yards or so.

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