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Etiquette: Having lunch after 9 - Page 8

post #127 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwoodtigerdo View Post


And also where did I say anything about me "throwing fists" or calling the cops. I will give you a hint to save you time, I didn't. It makes your reading comprehension comment ironic as hell.

 

"If you choose the latter and come at me then I have every right to defend myself and you can call the sheriff anytime you want."

 

How are you going to defend yourself? Throw kittens at him? And last I checked, the sheriff is a cop...you brought up them being called, not me. Try again.

post #128 of 212

@whatwoodtigerdo , to me the whole debate boils down to this:

 

Do you feel it is all right to cut in front of somebody in line (after you have lost your place)?

 

If someone cut in front of you, how would you feel?

post #129 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardballs View Post

Yeah, right, because all sports allow a stop for a hotdog break while the other players carry on don't they?

 

Maybe he should take up Cricket?

 

post #130 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwoodtigerdo View Post


And also where did I say anything about me "throwing fists" or calling the cops. I will give you a hint to save you time, I didn't. It makes your reading comprehension comment ironic as hell.

 

"If you choose the latter and come at me then I have every right to defend myself and you can call the sheriff anytime you want."

 

How are you going to defend yourself? Throw kittens at him? And last I checked, the sheriff is a cop...you brought up them being called, not me. Try again.

 

Actually I brought up the sheriff first, but only to say that he was just a phone call away when a player acted threateningly on the course.  I worked at a very busy public course, and we had an occasional (although rare) issue.  Sometimes it was a player who had too much to drink, but surprisingly, that wasn't always the case.  Sometimes it was just someone with a chip on his shoulder who thought he had more rights than the next guy and wouldn't back down when it was explained that he was wrong.  That is very much the same sort of attitude that Whatwouldtigerdo projects here.  

 

And by the way, I seriously doubt that Tiger would defend this guy either. :smartass: 

post #131 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

If I were one of the 30 or 40 of your closest golfing friends, your story would make me want to play that course.  Its rare that I find a course that enforces policies against slowing everyone up.
I find it hilarious that this guy believes he can influence the decisions of up to 100 golfers. b3_huh.gif
post #132 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

Actually I brought up the sheriff first, but only to say that he was just a phone call away when a player acted threateningly on the course.  I worked at a very busy public course, and we had an occasional (although rare) issue.  Sometimes it was a player who had too much to drink, but surprisingly, that wasn't always the case.  Sometimes it was just someone with a chip on his shoulder who thought he had more rights than the next guy and wouldn't back down when it was explained that he was wrong.  That is very much the same sort of attitude that Whatwouldtigerdo projects here.

 

And by the way, I seriously doubt that Tiger would defend this guy either:smartass:

I happen to know for a fact that when Tiger stopped to bang the Snack Shop girl at the turn, he was more than happy to wait until a spot opened up for him to get back on the course;-).

post #133 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

The bold sentence contradicts the following sentence.

In 15 minutes, two groups could have easily played through you.

Not really. Maybe if you think about it under the assumption that most groups are not going to stop. But I would bet my money on the fact that more people stop at the turn than don't contrary to what people are trying to say here to try to validate their argument. Also it''s not a question of playing through. If a group comes behind me and decides not to stop and I am not there they should feel free to go through. But my spot then becomes the group I get in front of when I return to the box.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

If I were one of the 30 or 40 of your closest golfing friends, your story would make me want to play that course.  Its rare that I find a course that enforces policies against slowing everyone up.

Well good for you but most players I know don't enjoy being pushed around by a business where they spend their money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shindig View Post

Just in the off chance you, or anyone reading this, is actually considering doing this:
When you (or your parents) pay for the round, you're agreeing to abide by various course policies -- that's why a marshal can move a slow group; that's why they can dictate that you play the holes in order, or keep the carts on the paths on various holes, or start at a particular time, or a number of other things that reasonable people recognize as part of the proper authority of course employees. If you stop playing and want to just jump back in, they can remove you from the course without refund (or, if you aren't being a pain about it, can fit you in when and if there's a break in the grouping).

You would, of course, be welcome to take future business elsewhere. But asking the bank/CC company/etc to reverse the charges -- as any adult with a credit card knows -- doesn't mean "hey bank, I changed my mind, get me a refund!" The bank doesn't just take the money back from the course owner's account; the course owner can explain what happened and contest it. It would be a very simple matter to show that you signed a CC slip for the round, used a cart, and were present playing golf. The reversal wouldn't stick -- you very clearly made the purchase shown, and chose to not honor your side of the agreement.

In fact, if the bank wanted to make a bigger issue of it, your request for a reversal could be shown to be fraudulent in the above case. I doubt they'd pursue this for such a small matter, but if you made a habit of this, they might.

Either way, you aren't getting the money back.
This sounds like good advertising to me. I wonder how many of these golfers know you as "that guy" and would take this as a positive advertisement for the course in question.

Lastly, this nonsense claim of the marshal (or starter, or whoever) "power tripping"/ being "power drunk"/ etc has to stop. Claiming that someone enforces a good rule in order to showcase authority is, at best, an immature hissy fit. Everyone who has ever had any authority has heard it, and almost always hears it from someone clearly in the wrong. I hear it from a large fraction of the students who fail any class I teach ("oh, come on, give me a C. It's nothing to you. You're just power tripping. Enjoy your authority, loser.") and from those who get reported to academic honesty boards for plagiarism ("why do you care? You're drunk with the little power you have."). Claiming that the starter asked you to move carts as a power trip, or that the ranger would be wrong to not let you back on the course after you left, is the golf version of this.

And while you claim earlier that you're "not a child in school," you're certainly throwing a fit like one.

The course has to uphold their bargain of the deal. So unless your receipt you sign says that the course has the right to halt your play at anytime for whatever reason they feel like it would be pretty easy to get my money back. And even if it says something in that manner I am pretty sure I would have no issues at all getting it back from my credit card company. And the fact you try to compare the situation it to fraud is laughable at best.

How am I throwing a fit like a child? I am explaining my position on here. So many weak attempts here to put me down simply because I don't agree with the majority of the posters on this thread. It's kind of sad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

No you don't get it.  He is saying that he doesn't care who he imposes his views on, or who gets held up by him when he stops at the turn.  He has said straight out that it doesn't matter if one or two groups come up behind or if the course is packed behind him, he will take as much time as HE feels that HE needs, then go to the tee when HE is ready and HE will hit when HE feels like it and flip them the bird as he does so.  He will ignore course policy, player flow and density, and any concerns by the staff.  He doesn't give a crap about anyone but himself.

Nobody is saying that you can't stop to grab a dog, it's his attitude that people have a problem with.  Busy public courses have policies in place to handle flow while still allowing players to grab something to eat at the turn.  Different courses handle it in different ways, but the key to minimize the delay while doing so.  Some courses don't have any hot food at all, others have preheated hot dogs, and some have phones at the 8th or 9th tee to call ahead.  All are designed to allow the players to grab and go.  Despite all  of that, sometimes it just doesn't work out.  That doesn't mean that the player can delay as long as he wants.  If something isn't available, then maybe you suck it up and wait until you finish.  

If having a snack is that important to you then bring a couple of Power Bars with you for a food emergency.  You don't make the rest of the course cater to you just because you think you're special.  The other golfers paid the same fees you did and the odds are good that they paid for golf, not for waiting on you to eat your lunch.

Nope if I am help up for food, it's the courses fault. But of course you wouldn't blame them. It's all the players fault. The course is infallible. The stupid players just shouldn't want food and just need to pay their money and hurry and get off their damn course before their privilege to play the course is revoked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post

I still can't believe the same people are stuck on this "issue". This whole "lunch at the turn" thing comes down to the most simple and basic fibers of common courtesy/sense that should be instilled in people at birth. Hell, most people can learn this generic form of blatant common sense through simply living.


You should not inconvenience others while displaying behavior that would come off as conceited or entitled.


I don't get how it is that hard to miss. If the wait is too long, you're shit out of luck and you should not be waiting more than 10 minutes for a hot dog and a drink, or whatever you went inside for. If you're still at the turn when the group behind you finishes up on 9, or 18, then you have spent too long at the turn - period. This is not a hard concept to grasp.

@whatwoodtigerdo
, nobody is being an elitist here. We're applying basic common sense to a situation that should take less time than a blink to assess and decipher in your brain subconsciously. There's this "thing" that people have inside of them that can quickly make us observant and considerate to others and say "Hey, I'm probably going to mess things up for people behind me if I sit here too long. Maybe I should speed it up a little bit". That's the only point that I was trying to make. However, your attitude of calling people "tough guy" for no reason is rubbing me the wrong way. You're jumping to who is going to say what to who, who is going to beat who up, saying other groups will "sit in their carts and not say anything" when you take your place in front of them.


To be blunt, people like you are the issue on courses that have problems with their pace of play and average finish times. For you, it may be a relaxing and leisure time experience where you have unlimited time or 6 hours to dedicate towards your round. Most of us who play this game and take it seriously (while still having a blast doing so) prefer to play in a reasonable amount of time and there are some simple rules that need to be adhered to in order to effectively ensure that pace of play is not a problem. I don't think it takes much effort or thought to be a little more considerate to other people both on and off of the course. If everyone were just a bit more considerate of others, the USGA wouldn't need to start "Pace of Play" campaigns.

if more people stop at the turn than don't, which I would assume to be correct, wouldn't you feel it's the people who don't want to stop that are in fact being inconsiderate and trying to push their will on other players.? No of course not because it doesn't jive with what you think is right. Even if they don't want anything at the turn they can go inside, cool down for a few minutes, use the bathroom etc. But no they want to push the other players to conform to their thought process and that's okay by you, just not the other way around. Gotta get home 15 minutes sooner, eh? Like I said my groups POP is usually in the 4 hour range with a stop at the turn so we aren't usually holding people up.

And to the bold sentence this is justf human nature. You don't have issues with the back handed comments or attempts to put me down littered all over the thread because you agree with their point they are arguing. But I am just supposed to take it. Which for the most part I have done and not put anybody down except for calling people "internet tough guys", because the act like it, and the starters "power drunk".
post #134 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvisliveson View Post
 

I happen to know for a fact that when Tiger stopped to bang the Snack Shop girl at the turn, he was more than happy to wait until a spot opened up for him to get back on the course;-).


Yes, but that only took 6 minutes. ;-)

post #135 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwoodtigerdo View Post


Not really. Maybe if you think about it under the assumption that most groups are not going to stop. But I would bet my money on the fact that more people stop at the turn than don't contrary to what people are trying to say here to try to validate their argument. Also it''s not a question of playing through. If a group comes behind me and decides not to stop and I am not there they should feel free to go through. But my spot then becomes the group I get in front of when I return to the box.

 

Nope, you would have to ask to be let in. I would contest that the group, behind the group that went infront of you, is doing their duty to keep up with the group infront of them by not letting you back in. Basically no group is required to let you back in if you drop out of play. So I would just suck it up, and ask nicely to be let back in. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwoodtigerdo View Post


The course has to uphold their bargain of the deal. So unless your receipt you sign says that the course has the right to halt your play at anytime for whatever reason they feel like it would be pretty easy to get my money back. And even if it says something in that manner I am pretty sure I would have no issues at all getting it back from my credit card company. And the fact you try to compare the situation it to fraud is laughable at best.
 

 

No they don't. The course is a private business and has every right to deny you access to the course. What if you go out on the course and take chunks out the of the green, or destroy their property. Do you have the right to finish your round, NO. The course has the right to kick anybody off their property. It would be the same if you were in an amusement park causing a scene. You can be kicked out even though you still paid entry. 

 

Actually you wouldn't get the money back from the credit card company, unless you lie about it being an unauthorized charge. At which time you would be committing fraud. You just can't go on your credit card and claim that because you were denied service due to your actions. A private business has the right to kick you off their property, even if you paid or not. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwoodtigerdo View Post


Nope if I am help up for food, it's the courses fault. But of course you wouldn't blame them. It's all the players fault. The course is infallible. The stupid players just shouldn't want food and just need to pay their money and hurry and get off their damn course before their privilege to play the course is revoked.
if more people stop at the turn than don't, which I would assume to be correct, wouldn't you feel it's the people who don't want to stop that are in fact being inconsiderate and trying to push their will on other players.? No of course not because it doesn't jive with what you think is right. Even if they don't want anything at the turn they can go inside, cool down for a few minutes, use the bathroom etc. But no they want to push the other players to conform to their thought process and that's okay by you, just not the other way around. Gotta get home 15 minutes sooner, eh? Like I said my groups POP is usually in the 4 hour range with a stop at the turn so we aren't usually holding people up.
 

 

 

Nope, the reason being that players DO NOT have to get food at the turn. So in the end it is an option in addition to playing the course. So if a group leaves the order of play to get food then it is their responsibility to get back to the tee before the other group behind them catches them and tees off. 

post #136 of 212

Is it too late to put a poll on this thread?

post #137 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwoodtigerdo View Post

if more people stop at the turn than don't, which I would assume to be correct, wouldn't you feel it's the people who don't want to stop that are in fact being inconsiderate and trying to push their will on other players.? No of course not because it doesn't jive with what you think is right. Even if they don't want anything at the turn they can go inside, cool down for a few minutes, use the bathroom etc. But no they want to push the other players to conform to their thought process and that's okay by you, just not the other way around. Gotta get home 15 minutes sooner, eh? Like I said my groups POP is usually in the 4 hour range with a stop at the turn so we aren't usually holding people up.

And to the bold sentence this is justf human nature. You don't have issues with the back handed comments or attempts to put me down littered all over the thread because you agree with their point they are arguing. But I am just supposed to take it. Which for the most part I have done and not put anybody down except for calling people "internet tough guys", because the act like it, and the starters "power drunk".

 

It makes no difference what your pace of play is if you screw up the flow of a busy day by ignoring course policy.  It's as simple as that.  For one thing, I would dispute that you play in 4 hours on a busy day.  That or we have different definitions of "busy".   On a busy day (which is every day this time of year) on my home course, the pace would be running about 4:15 to 4:30, with no gaps anywhere.  If you lose your place, then you've lost your place.  I might have an opening on the 10th tee around 2 or 3 PM.  And I don't really care if you take your business elsewhere, since we likely have 5 groups who would have taken that tee time if you hadn't.  

 

And while many groups stop at the turn, they don't dally.  They don't risk losing their place, and I guarantee you that they WILL lose their place if they take too long.  In my 5 years of sitting in the starter booth 40 feet from the snack bar and right between the 9th green and the 10th tee, I watched hundreds of groups make the turn, and no more than about 50% actually stop, and in most cases it's only one or 2 players from a group who actually go up to buy something.  The others head straight to the tee, because 9 times out of 10 the group ahead of them is already about to play their approach shots in the 10th fairway.

 

I can also assure that I have never had anyone get as riled up as you are over this.  Most players, even beginners, understand that they have a place on the course and when told that they are falling behind for whatever reason, they try to close up.  In most cases they have the delay for a legitimate playing reason, not some hissy fit over missing a hot dog, but they still show respect for the staff who are just trying to do a job.  I certainly hope that you never work at a golf course.  You'll get a rude awakening. 

post #138 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwoodtigerdo View Post

The course has to uphold their bargain of the deal. So unless your receipt you sign says that the course has the right to halt your play at anytime for whatever reason they feel like it would be pretty easy to get my money back.

The course did uphold their bargain; you left and want to get back in. I guarantee you every course has established a way to remove people from the course - legally - who aren't upholding their end of the deal. This includes people who deliberately cause unnecessary damage to the course, people who delay play significantly, people who bring in a boombox and play loud music on the course, and people who take two groups' worth of time between holes and think they haven't lost their place in line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwoodtigerdo View Post

And even if it says something in that manner I am pretty sure I would have no issues at all getting it back from my credit card company. And the fact you try to compare the situation it to fraud is laughable at best.

If by "no issues" you mean you'd lie to them about whether or not the charge is legitimate, you're right. But there's a word for that action; a concept encoded in law. It's five letters and begins with an 'f'. I'll let you guess what it is.

Laugh all you want. It's a felony.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwoodtigerdo View Post

How am I throwing a fit like a child? I am explaining my position on here. So many weak attempts here to put me down simply because I don't agree with the majority of the posters on this thread. It's kind of sad.

Calling the course employees "power mad" or "drunk on power" or whatever you called them is the hissy fit. And the rest of your argument follows from that. Saying you'd force your way back in, showing no consideration for anyone other than yourself, and threatening to stand in the way of people who can follow the rules? The rest of us got that sort of behavior out of our system before our age was double digit years.
post #139 of 212
Get jerky at the courses I play and the cops are called. An employee with a radio will take them out on the course in a cart.
post #140 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwoodtigerdo View Post


Nope if I am help up for food, it's the courses fault. But of course you wouldn't blame them. It's all the players fault. The course is infallible. The stupid players just shouldn't want food and just need to pay their money and hurry and get off their damn course before their privilege to play the course is revoked.

 

This is blatant B.S. It's quite likely that the food service people at the course will be tied up serving customers who are eating before or after their round, as they should be. But then again, with your attitude, perhaps you feel that you should be allowed to come in off the 9th green, go straight to the front of the line at the snack shack and have the employees drop whatever they were doing to serve the before- or after-round customers and take care of your needs, eh?

 

I just don't get this whole "need food at the turn" deal. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I have a gargantuan appetite, but I can easily go 6 hours or more without food and it's no trouble at all to arrange my consumption periods around a round of golf for the convenience of everyone involved – me, my playing partners, players in other groups and the people running the course. If I think I'm going to need a mid-round snack, I'll bring a couple of beef sticks or a bag of jerky.

 

I spend a considerable amount of money at the food and beverage facility at my course, but it's always before or after I play.

post #141 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post

Get jerky at the courses I play and the cops are called. An employee with a radio will take them out on the course in a cart.

 

What if you get a candy bar or a bag of chips instead of the jerky? Do you get the same treatment? Ha, ha!

post #142 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwoodtigerdo View Post


Not really. Maybe if you think about it under the assumption that most groups are not going to stop. But I would bet my money on the fact that more people stop at the turn than don't contrary to what people are trying to say here to try to validate their argument. Also it''s not a question of playing through. If a group comes behind me and decides not to stop and I am not there they should feel free to go through. But my spot then becomes the group I get in front of when I return to the box.

Here's where you're wrong, once a group passes you at the turn, you lost your place on he course.  Most courses send out 5-6 groups an hour, so you get about 10 - 12 minutes per hole.  If you waste your 10 - 12 minutes at the snack bar, you can't just walk up to the 10th and jump in without slowing down everyone behind you.

 

You could jump to the 11th or 12th depending on how long you took at the snack bar to take the spot you vacated but trying to jump in at the 10th will cause a delay for everyone behind you and that's why we're saying your inconsiderate.

post #143 of 212
Wow!?!?

I think I woke this thread up after almost a year b/c of a couple of confrontations I had over a six month period at the local municipal where you have no choice businessman to Leavenworth encourage to go to the bathroom and grab a beer (the beer getting takes less of Han a minute so doesnt change anything.)

I was trying to figure out etiquette and have come to the conclusion that it will just work itself out at this course. I will be polite and just work it out since there are no Marshall to speak of.

As to all these posts, both sides are coming across as silly internet commandos.

I think this is much ado about nothing as far as total time of play goes. Every course I play on from the cheap muni to nice, well run semi private courses have a high percentage of players that only play nine. I can't remember ever seeing the back nine jammed up, even on days when they are starting people of on ten.

The drop off factor hasn't been mentioned here, but I would guess it ranges from 30-60 percent, even on the weekends.
post #144 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by shootaglock View Post

Wow!?!?

I think I woke this thread up after almost a year b/c of a couple of confrontations I had over a six month period at the local municipal where you have no choice businessman to Leavenworth encourage to go to the bathroom and grab a beer (the beer getting takes less of Han a minute so doesnt change anything.)

I was trying to figure out etiquette and have come to the conclusion that it will just work itself out at this course. I will be polite and just work it out since there are no Marshall to speak of.

As to all these posts, both sides are coming across as silly internet commandos.

I think this is much ado about nothing as far as total time of play goes. Every course I play on from the cheap muni to nice, well run semi private courses have a high percentage of players that only play nine. I can't remember ever seeing the back nine jammed up, even on days when they are starting people of on ten.

The drop off factor hasn't been mentioned here, but I would guess it ranges from 30-60 percent, even on the weekends.

Really?

Except for mid-week late twilight players, I'd call it way less than 5% here. I can't even remember the last time I noticed someone quitting after 9.

Interesting difference in demographics.
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