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Ruling on lateral hazard/provisional...

post #1 of 32
Thread Starter 
Par 3, duffed my tee shot right into a hazard. Not sure if I'd find it, I hit a provisional. Found my ball in the hazard, disregarded the provisional, took a drop, hit it to about 20 feet and made the putt for bogey.

Correct course of action?
post #2 of 32
post #3 of 32
Thread Starter 
Good to know. That's why I asked. So if I knew it was in the hazard or it was virtually certain, I'd ha e to rehit from the previous spot?
post #4 of 32

doesn't have to be from the previous spot- you have 2 potential options with a (direct) hazard and 3 with a lateral (but in some cases, semantics may eliminate some of your options meaning that you might have to re-hit from the previous spot)

post #5 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree View Post

doesn't have to be from the previous spot- you have 2 potential options with a (direct) hazard and 3 with a lateral (but in some cases, semantics may eliminate some of your options meaning that you might have to re-hit from the previous spot)

What are the 3 options.
post #6 of 32
Thread Starter 

After reading the rules, it looks like I was fine to take a drop nearest where it entered the hazard. No? Am I misinterpreting?

post #7 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree View Post

doesn't have to be from the previous spot- you have 2 potential options with a (direct) hazard and 3 with a lateral (but in some cases, semantics may eliminate some of your options meaning that you might have to re-hit from the previous spot)

What are the 3 options.

26-1. Relief For Ball In Water Hazard

 

It is a question of fact whether a ball that has not been found after having been struck toward a water hazard is in the hazard. In the absence of knowledge or virtual certainty that a ball struck toward a water hazard, but not found, is in thehazard, the player must proceed under Rule 27-1.

If a ball is found in a water hazard or if it is known or virtually certain that a ball that has not been found is in the water hazard (whether the ball lies in water or not), the player may under penalty of one stroke:

a. Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or

b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or

c. As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of alateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole.

 

 

 

post #8 of 32
Thread Starter 

So I was right? I was within the rules to take the drop and hit 3? 

post #9 of 32

Yeah you are right.  Technically since your ball was hit into a hazard to begin with there was no reason for you to take a provisional because you couldn't play your provisional anyways even if you didn't find your first ball (as long as your were certain it was lost in the hazard).

post #10 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trackster View Post

Yeah you are right.  Technically since your ball was hit into a hazard to begin with there was no reason for you to take a provisional because you couldn't play your provisional anyways even if you didn't find your first ball (as long as your were certain it was lost in the hazard).

 

There was OB just right of the hazard, and I wasn't sure if it went far enough right to go OB, so I played the provisional with the intent of using it if I couldn't find the ball in the hazard. Fortunately, I found the first ball, and magically got it up and down from about 120 yards for a miracle bogey. Haha.

post #11 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post

 

There was OB just right of the hazard, and I wasn't sure if it went far enough right to go OB, so I played the provisional with the intent of using it if I couldn't find the ball in the hazard. Fortunately, I found the first ball, and magically got it up and down from about 120 yards for a miracle bogey. Haha.

 

Yeah the rules get a little tricky with the ball lost in hazard, ball lost out of hazard business.

post #12 of 32
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post

So I was right? I was within the rules to take the drop and hit 3? 
There is only a penalty of one stroke.
post #13 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
There is only a penalty of one stroke.

Yes, 1 off the tee, 1 penalty stroke, so I'd be hitting 3.
post #14 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post

 

There was OB just right of the hazard, and I wasn't sure if it went far enough right to go OB, so I played the provisional with the intent of using it if I couldn't find the ball in the hazard. Fortunately, I found the first ball, and magically got it up and down from about 120 yards for a miracle bogey. Haha.

If your ball was potentially OB or lost outside the hazard, then it was OK to hit a provisional and abandon/pick it up when you found your original ball.  In theory, you might be able to abandon the provisional and take a drop from the hazard if you thought it might be lost outside the hazard when you hit the provisional but become virtually certain it is lost in the hazard after examining the situation from up close.    

 

From your OP it sounded like you were sure you hit it into the hazard with no possibility that the ball was lost/OB outside the hazard- in that situation, you are not allowed to hit a provisional meaning that when you re-tee, that ball is in play and your original is out of play even if you find it.  Going back to your original at that point would subject you to a wrong ball penalty.  I am pretty sure I have that last bit correct- maybe fourputt or one of the other experts can confirm what the penalty is when you incorrectly hit a "provisional"

post #15 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree View Post

If your ball was potentially OB or lost outside the hazard, then it was OK to hit a provisional and abandon/pick it up when you found your original ball.  In theory, you might be able to abandon the provisional and take a drop from the hazard if you thought it might be lost outside the hazard when you hit the provisional but become virtually certain it is lost in the hazard after examining the situation from up close.    

 

From your OP it sounded like you were sure you hit it into the hazard with no possibility that the ball was lost/OB outside the hazard- in that situation, you are not allowed to hit a provisional meaning that when you re-tee, that ball is in play and your original is out of play even if you find it.  Going back to your original at that point would subject you to a wrong ball penalty.  I am pretty sure I have that last bit correct- maybe fourputt or one of the other experts can confirm what the penalty is when you incorrectly hit a "provisional"

 

Like I said, It was very close to OB. When I found it...it was about 1 yard left of the OB marker, so I wasn't certain it had stayed in the hazard or gone OB, thus the provisional.

 

Thanks though, it seems like I made the right ruling as long as there was a chance it may have gone OB...otherwise, yes, the re-tee would have been my 3rd shot instead of a provisional..

post #16 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree View Post

 Going back to your original at that point would subject you to a wrong ball penalty.  I am pretty sure I have that last bit correct-

You have.
post #17 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulesman View Post


You have.

 

Even if you specified it's a provisional because it could have gone OB? Seriously asking. Doesn't really matter for last night, super casual round, but I'd like to be certain for the future.

post #18 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post

Even if you specified it's a provisional because it could have gone OB? Seriously asking. Doesn't really matter for last night, super casual round, but I'd like to be certain for the future.

If a provisional was permitted then when you find the original in bounds, the provisional is dead.
If you don't wish to plasy the original where it is then you may go back and play another ball under stroke and distance.

But MEfree was referring to a situation where a provisional was not permitted. So that when the second ball (supposedly 'provisional') was played it became the ball in play and the original was lost under the definition of lost ball (even though it was found).
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