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5 Feet Off The Green - Front Pin... What Do You Do? - Page 3

post #37 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

This is not a low percentage shot.  It's an ordinary routine chip shot that the OP proposed.  Nothing unusual or difficult about it.  I'm a long, long way from being a pro, but I hit this with my 51° gap wedge and get it within a couple of feet 4 out of 5 times.  I actually like my chances of holing it out.

This wasn't really directed at you but more the OP and the other person that you were responding, OP 17 hc...putt the ball. I feel the same way with my particular shot but a bad pitch ends up 25 ft away and a bad putt ends up 10 ft away... just averages
post #38 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

My only question to this is "How often do you see a pro putt through 5 feet of fringe on TV?"  Even at the Open it depends on the course and situation.  At most tournaments in the US it's very rare because of the softer, more lush grass.  That makes it hard to judge speed, and it makes it less likely that the ball will hold a good line rolling through it.  Any grain will have a greater effect on the ball.  I will putt only if there is two feet or less of fringe to roll through, or if I have a difficult downhill or level lie to a down sloping green.  Most would feel that the "putt when you can" statement was intended for shots with a lot less than 5 feet of fringe to go through.

 

That said, I have a buddy who is a horrible chipper, and doesn't seem to have any interest in changing that fact (He'll spend 2 hours on the range, but never go near the chipping green).  I've seen him putt through 10 feet of dormant rough when we play in the winter.  The result isn't always great, but it's usually better than he'd have done by chipping. 

 

I do agree 5ft is starting to get to that in-between area.  Again, 17 handicap looking for advice, has really struggled from this position, I'm going to tell him to putt it.  

 

I think you're over estimating the effects of the grass on the ball.  Grain affects speed, it doesn't do anything to change the amount of break outside of changing speed.  For most people from that position, if they hit 10 balls chipping and 10 balls putting, good chance the putter will have a tighter circle around the hole.  Not saying you can't get it close chipping/pitching but most golfers aren't great at this shot and most don't practice it.

 

About the grain bit

http://thesandtrap.com/t/67811/grain-break#post_857040 

post #39 of 95

Five feet is close enough to the green that putting makes sense unless there is something between the ball and the hole that could affect the line, bare spots etc. Nearly every article I've read about how to break 80 or how to shave strokes recommends putting everything you can.

 

I don't see many high handicap golfers with a consistent short game. I do see lots of high handicap golfers attempting low percentage shots with lofted clubs when it would be easier bump it.

post #40 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post

 

Grain affects speed, it doesn't do anything to change the amount of break outside of changing speed. 

Grain on greens is one thing and especially Tour speed greens. I don't doubt that there's not enough grass there to affect the break. Grain through longer fringe grass is quite another. Especially at certain times of the year when the Bermuda grass stalks are really stiff. Dormant Bermuda that has been allowed to grow extra long to avoid winter kill is the worst of all (even on the greens). If you don't read the grain you won't make putts. A friend and I went to a course with dormant Bermuda greens and even though he had been playing golf for years and years, and was a good player, he had no clue how much the grain was going to grab the ball. He finally asked me how I knew which way they were going to break and I showed him. The only redeeming factor in dormant Bermuda is that it's very easy to see the grain with the longer stalks laying down.

 

I've seen uphill putts against the grain in the fringe that had to be hit so hard that it was almost impossible to judge what speed the ball was going to be travelling when it reaches the green. If the green is fast and/or sloping down towards the hole getting up and down is playing the lottery.

post #41 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

This is not a low percentage shot.  It's an ordinary routine chip shot that the OP proposed.  Nothing unusual or difficult about it.  I'm a long, long way from being a pro, but I hit this with my 51° gap wedge and get it within a couple of feet 4 out of 5 times.  I actually like my chances of holing it out.

For you it might not be a low percentage shot but for most of us higher handicaps the risk far outweighs the reward.  I'm trying to minimize mistakes, the chance of me thinning it far outweighs the chance of me holing it. 

 

My goal is to be in the best position to sink the next putt.  Putting it from five feet out with the pin close gives me the best chance of sinking the next putt. 

post #42 of 95

I'd be making practice swings with the club I hit the approach with, because I obviously came up short on an easy shot. I'd then putt it if it were pretty straight, because I get to use the flag to stop the ball. I could also hit a soft pitch with my 60 degree if it sloped towards the pin at all, or if I had a plush lie. I can get it to land a couple feet short and trickle to the hole with good regularity, since that's my go to shot from short distances.

 

If I hit it past the hole that's OK because I can watch the break and make a lot higher percentage of putts as a result. 

post #43 of 95

I am very good at that shot and am going up and down a high percentage of time from there regardless if I decide to chip it with my PW or putt it. That said I putt it pretty much all the time for 2 reasons. First, I feel like I have a better chance to make it with a putter. I have played a lot of golf with a lot of people and don't see many chip in. Second, my bad shot from there with my putter still leaves me a very easy putt but a bad shot with my PW there is either going to be a flub that basically just throws a stroke away or the dreaded bladed wedge in which case who knows where I am at and how many strokes that could cost me. 

post #44 of 95

I would use a "baby" flop shot.  Hit it like a bunker shot only with a less power. 

post #45 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teamanglerx View Post

I would use a "baby" flop shot.  Hit it like a bunker shot only with a less power. 

Why in the heck would you hit some kind of difficult little "baby flop" (whatever that is) when you could hit a putt or a little straight forward chip?

Simpler is almost always better in this game..... a2_wink.gif
post #46 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwoodtigerdo View Post

I am very good at that shot and am going up and down a high percentage of time from there regardless if I decide to chip it with my PW or putt it. That said I putt it pretty much all the time for 2 reasons. First, I feel like I have a better chance to make it with a putter. I have played a lot of golf with a lot of people and don't see many chip in. Second, my bad shot from there with my putter still leaves me a very easy putt but a bad shot with my PW there is either going to be a flub that basically just throws a stroke away or the dreaded bladed wedge in which case who knows where I am at and how many strokes that could cost me. 

 

You should have been playing with me back in the day.  I had chipped in for eagle 6 times before I ever holed an eagle putt.  I was beginning that there was some natural law that prevented it from happening.  

 

Two years ago I had one of those weird holes.  I hit my tee shot on a downhill par 5 hole into the woods on the left side.  I found the ball, tried to play a 5I back through a gap in the trees, and of course I hit one, bounced left, still in the trees but with a good opening.  I took a 3W, laid the ball 10 feet in front of the green, and chipped in for the most surprising birdie of my life.  I love chipping.  z5_smartass.gif

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teamanglerx View Post

I would use a "baby" flop shot.  Hit it like a bunker shot only with a less power. 

Why in the heck would you hit some kind of difficult little "baby flop" (whatever that is) when you could hit a putt or a little straight forward chip?

Simpler is almost always better in this game..... a2_wink.gif
 
A baby flop from a tight fairway lie??  Now that's a low percentage shot if there ever was one.  (maybe why he doesn't display a handicap?)
post #47 of 95

I'm a firm believer in the idea that the less loft you use.. the less variability in the shot.

 

If the fringe allowed I would use my putter.   Otherwise I would either choke down on my 4 hybrid or my 7 iron and use a putting stoke.   The 4 hybrid putt from around the green has saved me a ton of shots and is very repeatable with just a little practice.

post #48 of 95
I would putt it if I can. Otherwise, an 8 iron with a putting stroke and keep it on the ground.
post #49 of 95

so the pin is a few spaces on the front of the green.

 

Ball in the rough, ball sitting up, i will tend to try to pick the ball clean with a chipping stroke, like a putting motion.

Ball in the rough, ball sitting down, if its deep grass, i will kinda play a chunk in run bunker shot. Ball a bit more back, lots of wrist hinge, drop the club on the ball, let the weight of the club pop the ball into the air softly.

 

If its the fringe, depends on the condition of the fringe. If its really mowed down i will putt it. Usually i will just use a 58 degree and chip the ball.

post #50 of 95
Ran into this situation yesterday and I putted. The grass must have been deeper than I thought. I left 8 feet putt which I missed. Given that I never played on this course before, I should have chipped. I was surprised how hard the 1st cut grabbed my ball from releasing.
post #51 of 95

Unless the fringe/fairway is tightly mown, I typically try to land it on the green. I have a hard time judging speed through the fringe sometimes. If I drop 20 balls and hit 10 with a putter and 10 with something else, I may have a tighter circle around the hole with a putter, but the first 2-3 would likely be the outliers. The safer play for me is generally a more lofted club.  

post #52 of 95
I'd putt it with a 7i or 8i, clear the fringe then roll to the pin, probably within a foot or 2 on a good day! Or 6/7 on a bad!
post #53 of 95

1st choice - putt it if the fringe looks clean

2nd - a little chip with 8 or 9i (if the green if really fast, chip shot with PW even)

 

I think this scenario is also a nice one for me to learn to use my hybrid or fairway woods in a putting stroke.  That might line up in between those two but I believe that option is for something a little farther away than just 5 feet and in the short apron grass.....But I'd like to get input on that too, where is that fw putting shot used mostly....?

post #54 of 95
Eight times out of ten I would putt. The other two times leave room for a compelling reason not to putt, with one of those reasons being a moment of stupidity.
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