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Are you a feel or mechanical golfer? - Page 2

post #19 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by geauxforbroke View Post

Everyone is a feel player. Even when you learn the mechanics, you have to feel it. I think a better distinction is intuitive vs. calculating. 

 

 

I'm very calculating.  I have shots calibrated for lots of situations, they are repeatable.  I know my yardages for each club - full swing and partials.  I know how much face and stroke is needed to carry pitches specific yardages and how much to change the setup to adjust a bit around those distances.  (then it's just about executing those swings each time, isn't it?  and that's not easy without some natural feel.  still working on it.).  I think hacking on someone for doing this is likely just someone too lazy to go figure it out and they resent the work others put in on it.  I think people are very disadvantaged if they don't 'really' understand the physics of what's going on.

 

I'm very intuitive.  Once I get the club and swing selected based on my practice and the above knowledge, I need to visualize the shot correctly.  In odd situations, I need to be flexible enough to change up those 'standard' setups if the situation calls for it.  However, if you don't take the time to understand the physics, then a self proclaimed "intuitive" golfer is really just guessing.

 

No, being 'very' both, is not a conflict at all.

 

Clearly, we all prefer to hit our "set shots" than to make it up as we go along.  At least if we are looking for consistency.  However, it's a lot more fun to 'make it up' as we go along.  You never know what cool shots you might pull off.

post #20 of 81

Very much a feel player. 

 

For instance, the best part of my game is from 50 yards in...and I don't have any set swings for those distances...there's nothing mechanical, I just take a couple practice swings until it "feels" right, and try to repeat it...and most of the time it's dead on. I play with a bunch of guys who choke up a certain way or swing to a certain level for distances, but that's not for me.

post #21 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post

I'm very calculating.  I have shots calibrated for lots of situations, they are repeatable.  I know my yardages for each club - full swing and partials.  I know how much face and stroke is needed to carry pitches specific yardages and how much to change the setup to adjust a bit around those distances.  (then it's just about executing those swings each time, isn't it?).  I think hacking on someone for doing this is likely just someone too lazy to go figure it out and they resent the work others put in on it.  I think people are very disadvantaged if they don't 'really' understand the physics of what's going on.

 

I'm very intuitive.  Once I get the club and swing selected based on my practice and the above knowledge, I need to visualize the shot correctly.  In odd situations, I need to be flexible enough to change up those 'standard' setups if the situation calls for it.  However, if you don't take the time to understand the physics, then a self proclaimed "intuitive" golfer is really just guessing.

 

I understand where you're coming from. I wish I could tell you how far I hit a 9 iron with an 80% swing. I have no idea. But when I have 135 yards, I know I can pull a 9 and get the right distance out of it. If I start thinking in percentages, I get all screwed up on yardages. It's just more intuition than calculation. 

 

As far as the mechanics of the swing, as I said before, I think everyone is a feel player because you have to feel it to be able to repeat it. 

 

Another interesting distinction might be creative vs. consistent. A creative player varies trajectory and ball flight on most shots, while a consistent player tries to maintain the same ball flight on every shot.  

 

Edit: I guess I should clarify that I don't think there is a right or wrong way to play, i.e. intuitive vs. calculating, creative vs. consistent. But I think it's interesting to analyze the way we play the game and take note of the differences. When my dad and I play together, we often discuss shots before we hit them, just to get an idea of what the other person is thinking. It's a great way to learn course management. 

post #22 of 81

I'm going to say that I have moments where everything is "instinctual", meaning that I don't have any swing thoughts or strategic thought.  Simply, I've assessed the shot - visualized what I want to happen and step up and swing.  In those moments it seems like everything happens automatically, there is no doubt or distractions, only execution. The results are great but those moments only happen a few times per round.  More often than not I have a goal in mind that I've visualized and attempt to execute but have a single swing thought in my head (short backswing, follow-thru, 80% swing, etc.).  Sometimes the results are good, sometimes not but it doesn't feel "instinctual".

 

I don't think one is better than the other but certainly wish I had more of those great "instinctual" moments.  My guess is that the more skill you develop the more of those moments you're likely to have on the course.

post #23 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by geauxforbroke View Post

Everyone is a feel player. Even when you learn the mechanics, you have to feel it. I think a better distinction is intuitive vs. calculating. 

 

 

I'm very calculating.  I have shots calibrated for lots of situations, they are repeatable.  I know my yardages for each club - full swing and partials.  I know how much face and stroke is needed to carry pitches specific yardages and how much to change the setup to adjust a bit around those distances.  (then it's just about executing those swings each time, isn't it?  and that's not easy without some natural feel.  still working on it.).  I think hacking on someone for doing this is likely just someone too lazy to go figure it out and they resent the work others put in on it.  I think people are very disadvantaged if they don't 'really' understand the physics of what's going on.

 

I'm very intuitive.  Once I get the club and swing selected based on my practice and the above knowledge, I need to visualize the shot correctly.  In odd situations, I need to be flexible enough to change up those 'standard' setups if the situation calls for it.  However, if you don't take the time to understand the physics, then a self proclaimed "intuitive" golfer is really just guessing.

 

No, being 'very' both, is not a conflict at all.

 

Clearly, we all prefer to hit our "set shots" than to make it up as we go along.  At least if we are looking for consistency.  However, it's a lot more fun to 'make it up' as we go along.  You never know what cool shots you might pull off.

 

Well,it certainly is good to find out that I don't actually know anything about the game... for 35 years I've just been "guessing".  d2_doh.gif

post #24 of 81

Golf is a game of mechanics.  There is a always a certain mechanical swing for any situation. However, a mechanical swing isn't something that can be defined to single points in space on a single plane.  It is a generalized swing type that works for any situation.  You must "feel" or build your plane or as I called it, singe points in space, that follow the mechanical guideline.

 

Although, short game is where it changes somewhat for me, especially putting.  Putting is all in between the ears for me.  Just gotta learn to be confident over the put and that just comes from practice. Chipping and pitching, there are a whole bunch of ways to put the ball close to the hole every time.  The ideal one is the bump and run i guess, but I never really got into that.  I just take my 52 for most shots and build multiple ways to hit it.  I also use my 56 and 60 but for only specific shots like sand or floppers.

post #25 of 81

“Feel is not real” is a phrase you hear frequently by some. Often with a defensive “ and here is the proof” attitude even to the point of sounding condescending.  I disagree.  Feel is very much real from the standpoint of execution.  If the player can “feel” the shot in his mind, the club “feels” right, and the body “feels” as if is in the correct positions, the shot is executed in a manner that is consistent with the mechanics and bio measurements.  If the feel is not there, it is unlikely the execution will be either. Now, having said that, I would not disagree that what the golfer “feels” is not what may actually be taking place and the bio mechanics must be in place for a successful outcome. My point is, that “feel” is what gets you in that place.  So, from the golfer’s viewpoint, that is his/her reality.  Without the feel would mean that the outcome was not intended and therefore a good result obtained quite by accident. This also occurs. One example would be to go about, blindly, bashing, balls on a driving range with no definable strategy, method, or goal in mind. Some are good, some aren’t.

There are exceptions of course. One may have the “feel” and still hit a poor shot. This only means that something else is missing or correction is needed to incorporate whatever it is into the “feel”.

post #26 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

Well,it certainly is good to find out that I don't actually know anything about the game... for 35 years I've just been "guessing".  d2_doh.gif

 

you have a normal 150 yard shot to the flag, nothing special to consider - what club to you grab?

or do you just look at your bag and grab whatever club gives you a warm fuzzy?  b2_tongue.gif

 

So were you 'hacking' on the thinkers?  that who the quote was directed at....."I think hacking on someone for doing this is likely just....."

 

as 'intuitive' as you think you are, you do have a 'set shot' and a typical swing that I bet you understand VERY well

that's the only point I'm making.....  experienced is NOT the same as 'intuitive'  (and that was more to an up post where some poster noted his "mechanical" friends are all robots and can't be creative if outside their box.  silly comment, it's not that they are feel vs mech, his friends are just not great at adapting - not really a feel thing there unless it's really narrowly defined)

 

if you read my paragraphs, I suspect what I'm saying is pretty close to most people.  A well understood baseline, with the 'feel'/'instinct' portion being a big part of how they handle the fine tuning of various shots.

 

and with the various interpretations on the word "feel" I've seen in the thread so far, I suspect that we have about 30 different takes on what the question means anyway.

post #27 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post

you have a normal 150 yard shot to the flag, nothing special to consider - what club to you grab?

or do you just look at your bag and grab whatever club gives you a warm fuzzy?  b2_tongue.gif

 

as 'intuitive' as you think you are, you do have a 'set shot' and a typical swing that I bet you understand VERY well

that's the only point I'm making.....  experienced is NOT the same as 'intuitive'

 

For me, it would depend on a lot of things: wind, lie, shape of the green, what trouble is around the green, etc. Barring crazy wind, I will hit everything from 9 iron to 7 iron from 150. A lot of it is what kind of shot "feels" comfortable for the situation. I don't think "it's 150, so it must be a 9 iron".

post #28 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

I've met plenty of players who have a set play for any shot or lie and never, ever improvise.  They usually play well in predictable situations, but are lost when a shot requires some imagination.  They have a Pelz style short game with everything calculated to death, but when the calculations fail, so do they.  To me, that's mechanical - robotic.

 

I am very much a feel player.  That hurts my long game as compared to the typical mechanical player, but I think that it makes me more competent in the short game and in recovery situations.

This goes for me as well. I've had to scramble so much that I have become comfortable with a lot of situations where I can let my imagination run wild and choose a type of shot that has many guys going "Ummm...". Usually it turns out well for me, especially when I am in scramble/recovery mode.

post #29 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by geauxforbroke View Post

 

For me, it would depend on a lot of things: wind, lie, shape of the green, what trouble is around the green, etc. Barring crazy wind, I will hit everything from 9 iron to 7 iron from 150. A lot of it is what kind of shot "feels" comfortable for the situation. I don't think "it's 150, so it must be a 9 iron".

 

depends, depends, depends,.......actually, that sounds very calculating and mechanical to me  b2_tongue.gif

 

(sounds like your centerline 150 yd shot is a easy swing 8i, and you then work around that depending on what else you want to do.....and what you've practiced)

 

that's why these are about discussion, and not necessarily right vs wrong.....just sharing info.

 

for that matter - you conveniently left out this part "I suspect what I'm saying is pretty close to most people.  A well understood baseline, with the 'feel'/'instinct' portion being a big part of how they handle the fine tuning of various shots." 

 

which I think indicates there's no real disagreement there...how can there be?

 

Unless people really think "feel" is the same as frequently hitting shots they've never practiced or done before.  But I doubt anyone with a few decades in this activity will find something perfectly new such that they can't draw on some previous experience, or even, GASP, something they practiced a bit on.....

 

 

I do think there's a bit of strawmanning going on:

 

"I like to think of myself as a 'feel' player.  Therefore, I'm going to pretend that mechanical means someone with no imagination and only one stock swing"

"I like to think of myself as a 'mechanical' player.  Therefore, I'm going to pretend that feel means someone that just randomly makes it up as they go along."

 

 

I am going to review the "how do you draw and fade shots" threads, though and see how many self proclaimed 'feel' players will tell people to just hit their stock shot and not go messing around.....

post #30 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by geauxforbroke View Post

 

For me, it would depend on a lot of things: wind, lie, shape of the green, what trouble is around the green, etc. Barring crazy wind, I will hit everything from 9 iron to 7 iron from 150. A lot of it is what kind of shot "feels" comfortable for the situation. I don't think "it's 150, so it must be a 9 iron".

 

depends, depends, depends,.......actually, that sounds very calculating and mechanical to me  b2_tongue.gif

 

(sounds like your centerline 150 yd shot is a easy swing 8i, and you then work around that depending on what else you want to do.....and what you've practiced)

 

that's why these are about discussion, and not necessarily right vs wrong.....just sharing info.

 

I suppose my default 150 yard shot (taking out all variables) is a full 9 iron. But I rarely hit an iron 100%. I have no idea what percent I hit them at though. I don't calculate it, I just feel it and hit it. 

post #31 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hacker James View Post

“Feel is not real” is a phrase you hear frequently by some. Often with a defensive “ and here is the proof” attitude even to the point of sounding condescending.  I disagree.  Feel is very much real from the standpoint of execution.  If the player can “feel” the shot in his mind, the club “feels” right, and the body “feels” as if is in the correct positions, the shot is executed in a manner that is consistent with the mechanics and bio measurements.

 

You're misinterpreting how people use the phrase "Feel ain't real."

 

Of course it's "real" to the person.

post #32 of 81

Hmm... I'm a bad golfer who feels his mechanics is off 

post #33 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post

Hmm... I'm a bad golfer who feels his mechanics is off 

 

Well, all you have to do is figure out what the proper mechanics are, then get the feeling of the swing so you can repeat it. 

post #34 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by geauxforbroke View Post

 

Well, all you have to do is figure out what the proper mechanics are, then get the feeling of the swing so you can repeat it. 

The strange thing is most everyone who sees me swing thinks I have a good swing and should golf better than I do. I'll "feel" like I made a great swing but the ball tells me otherwise rofl.

post #35 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by geauxforbroke View Post

 

I suppose my default 150 yard shot (taking out all variables) is a full 9 iron. But I rarely hit an iron 100%. I have no idea what percent I hit them at though. I don't calculate it, I just feel it and hit it. 

 

I think we're talking past each other.

 

Is this following process "feel"?  or "Calculating"?   - "Hmmmm, 150 to the flag, greens are a bit hard, it's pretty clear all around.....  Based on my experience, I need to hit this club about 3/4.....I've hit that before and have practiced with it on the range and I think that's the shot I need."

 

I call that "calculating" (since experience and practice are involved), I suspect you call that "feel" (since you didn't pull a table, chart or calculator out of your bag)

 

 

I have to really hit my 9 pure to get a clean 150 - or at least concentrate on a very snappy release.  You must have pretty good feel.

 

 

 

 

Quote:

 

Quote:
Hmm... I'm a bad golfer who feels his mechanics is off 

 

 

Well, all you have to do is figure out what the proper mechanics are, then get the feeling of the swing so you can repeat it.

ROFL

post #36 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by geauxforbroke View Post

 

I suppose my default 150 yard shot (taking out all variables) is a full 9 iron. But I rarely hit an iron 100%. I have no idea what percent I hit them at though. I don't calculate it, I just feel it and hit it. 

 

I think we're talking past each other.

 

Is this following process "feel"?  or "Calculating"?   - "Hmmmm, 150 to the flag, greens are a bit hard, it's pretty clear all around.....  Based on my experience, I need to hit this club about 3/4.....I've hit that before and have practiced with it on the range and I think that's the shot I need."

 

I call that "calculating" (since experience and practice are involved), I suspect you call that "feel" (since you didn't pull a table, chart or calculator out of your bag)

 

 

I have to really hit my 9 pure to get a clean 150 - or at least concentrate on a very snappy release.  You must have pretty good feel.

 

Yeah, I think we just have a different perspective of the same thing. I guess the only difference is I wouldn't really be thinking about the 3/4 part. It would be pretty amusing to see someone pull out a chart or calculator. I might do that the next time I play just to mess with the guys I'm playing with. 

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