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My Swing (savosean) - Page 3

post #37 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by savosean View Post


I have yet to bash anyone who actually informed me with some good and proper feedback. Once again if you read my post prior to that one you would know what I mean by uneducated. You were not giving me and educated response relating to the golf swing. Hitting a plastic ball in the wind wouldn't really show you anything more then my practice swing at a tee. Like I said numerous times, I am going to get a video of me swinging at an actual golf ball. People have said the same thing over and over again, and I understand why must you repeat it once I already agreed with it about 10 times in this thread. The way your first post was structured, just came off as rude and I do not have patience for such people.

 

 You came here for help and argued with those who tried to assist you in doing a proper swing video.  As has been said numerous times, people aren't concerned with your ball flight.  So it wouldn't matter if you struck a plastic ball, it went into the wind, and then it blew back over your head.  A swing at a ball is fundamentally different than a practice swing. 

 

Points of concern being:

 

At impact are you swinging in to out/out to in etc.

 

Are you hitting the ball fat/thin?

 

Hell for that matter, at least with a practice ball the people watching your vids can at least see where your IMPACT is.

 

 

When I take a practice swing on the tee box I may swing a perfect in to out swing that would draw the ball perfectly.  However, when addressing and hitting an actual ball I may do something in my subconscious that drastically alters my swing.  The reason for this because I actually have to focus on hitting the ball and not just doing a correct swing.  You continue to basically tell me I am an idiot for wanting you to hit a plastic ball when I think everyone here would agree that its better than hitting no ball at all.  As has been said, your ball flight is not of much important in the video because it is going to be hard to film your entire ball flight anyway.  If you want to my swing video you would see that in some of my vids I am hitting a plastic ball myself and was able to receive constructive information on my swing. 

 

 

Example:  You are wanting information on how to hit a more consistent draw.  The important piece to that information is your swing path and club face control, which can been seen even if your ball flight can't. 


Edited by SloverUT - 8/13/13 at 4:10pm
post #38 of 54

Very entertaining.  My only dilemma is which post to put in the grammar thread.  But I digress...

 

savosean, you're thinking of this from the wrong perspective.  We don't care about the ball.  The ball and it's properties don't really matter.  You could be swinging at a frog perched on a tee for all we care.  But when there is an object to make contact with, your swing can and most likely will alter the majority of the time.

 

When we have no ball in front of us, it's easy to practice the mechanics of something because the only objective is to repeat the mechanic.  Nothing will undermine nor supersede this.  However, put a ball in the way, and even when trying to repeat the mechanic, you can abandon it--whether you realize it or not--in order to hit the ball, which our brain is conditioned to do when taking a swing.  It's instinctive to try and hit the ball.  

 

So, if you're trying to work on a more in-to-out swing path, it's easy to do when a ball isn't there.  But what happens when your takeaway is a bit too flat, and you start coming down from the top, with a ball in front of you?  Are you still going to swing outward knowing that you will either hit the ball off the heel or maybe even completely wiff?  Or are you going to abandon that mechanic in order to make good contact?

post #39 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

Very entertaining.  My only dilemma is which post to put in the grammar thread.  But I digress...

 

savosean, you're thinking of this from the wrong perspective.  We don't care about the ball.  The ball and it's properties don't really matter.  You could be swinging at a frog perched on a tee for all we care.  But when there is an object to make contact with, your swing can and most likely will alter the majority of the time.

 

When we have no ball in front of us, it's easy to practice the mechanics of something because the only objective is to repeat the mechanic.  Nothing will undermine nor supersede this.  However, put a ball in the way, and even when trying to repeat the mechanic, you can abandon it--whether you realize it or not--in order to hit the ball, which our brain is conditioned to do when taking a swing.  It's instinctive to try and hit the ball.  

 

So, if you're trying to work on a more in-to-out swing path, it's easy to do when a ball isn't there.  But what happens when your takeaway is a bit too flat, and you start coming down from the top, with a ball in front of you?  Are you still going to swing outward knowing that you will either hit the ball off the heel or maybe even completely wiff?  Or are you going to abandon that mechanic in order to make good contact?


Don't forget that you are hitting a really small pea sized target with the club.

post #40 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

When we have no ball in front of us, it's easy to practice the mechanics of something because the only objective is to repeat the mechanic.  Nothing will undermine nor supersede this.  However, put a ball in the way, and even when trying to repeat the mechanic, you can abandon it--whether you realize it or not--in order to hit the ball, which our brain is conditioned to do when taking a swing.  It's instinctive to try and hit the ball.  

 

 

I had an instructor who would not make a video without a ball there. He called the ball the great "enemy," because it so dramatically effected how people swing. He said my practice swings were drastically different than my real swing, and he was exactly right. Plus, he wanted to see ball position at address, and how impact looked. None of that is possible in a practice swing because the impact zone can be anywhere I imagine it to be.

post #41 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandallT View Post

 

I had an instructor who would not make a video without a ball there. He called the ball the great "enemy," because it so dramatically effected how people swing. He said my practice swings were drastically different than my real swing, and he was exactly right. Plus, he wanted to see ball position at address, and how impact looked. None of that is possible in a practice swing because the impact zone can be anywhere I imagine it to be.

 

I had a series of lessons last year, and the instructor wanted me to work on a specific thing at the range without the ball first.  Then to introduce the ball, but with less-than-full-speed swings.  Then eventually work my way into full-speed swings.  The idea being that you want to repeat the mechanic a bit first without that great enemy there to disrupt it, and eventually work your way to the point where you can repeat the mechanic with the ball there.

 

It sounds easy for sure, but then again, so does golf in general a1_smile.gif

post #42 of 54

There are lots of guys here who've done lots of video work themselves, and a number of pros (including one of the two owners who's already responded, iacas=Erik) who've taught hundreds to thousands of players using video.  It is simply a FACT that has been observed over and over again by all of these people that somewhere very very very very close to 100% of players will not produce the same swing with a practice swing as they will with a ball or practice ball there to hit.

 

You came here asking for advice.  When various people let you know a fact they have observed with many thousands of observations between them, you got pissy and refused to consider that maybe the thousands of swings these commenters have observed between them don't apply to you.  It applies to you.  You're not Tiger Woods with max concentration.

 

That said, I agree with the golf posture tips.  That's one thing that should be at least fairly consistent (though definitely not guaranteed) between practice swings and real swings.  In your practice swings you do seem to do a pretty good job of taking your backswing with a way too upright posture but then dipping into a more athletic position with a better spine angle to start your down swing.  That's a possible source of inconsistency right there.  It can only make the golf swing harder to take your backswing with one posture and then rely on dynamically shifting into a better, more athletic posture at the top in a consistent way that will lead to consistent results.

 

But seriously, take video at the range or with a practice ball at the park.  And don't bring a pissy attitude to a forum where you're asking other experienced players and a bunch of teaching professionals to give you FREE advice.  You'll get very helpful tips here if you do that.

post #43 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post

There are lots of guys here who've done lots of video work themselves, and a number of pros (including one of the two owners who's already responded, iacas=Erik) who've taught hundreds to thousands of players using video.  It is simply a FACT that has been observed over and over again by all of these people that somewhere very very very very close to 100% of players will not produce the same swing with a practice swing as they will with a ball or practice ball there to hit.

 

You came here asking for advice.  When various people let you know a fact they have observed with many thousands of observations between them, you got pissy and refused to consider that maybe the thousands of swings these commenters have observed between them don't apply to you.  It applies to you.  You're not Tiger Woods with max concentration.

 

That said, I agree with the golf posture tips.  That's one thing that should be at least fairly consistent (though definitely not guaranteed) between practice swings and real swings.  In your practice swings you do seem to do a pretty good job of taking your backswing with a way too upright posture but then dipping into a more athletic position with a better spine angle to start your down swing.  That's a possible source of inconsistency right there.  It can only make the golf swing harder to take your backswing with one posture and then rely on dynamically shifting into a better, more athletic posture at the top in a consistent way that will lead to consistent results.

 

But seriously, take video at the range or with a practice ball at the park.  And don't bring a pissy attitude to a forum where you're asking other experienced players and a bunch of teaching professionals to give you FREE advice.  You'll get very helpful tips here if you do that.


I started off very happy to be on the forums but the first couple people to reply were rude, and just plain giving this forum a bad image. I don't understand why you think I have a pissy attitude when all I did was call one person an idiot because I did not beleive in what he said because of the way he said it. But, when others explained it in a more mature manner and with a little more respect put into the post. I completly agree, and went on to say I need to get some swings with a ball. I have said this numerous times now I need to hit a ball, I get it. Are people not reading the entirety of the thread. Do they stop after the first comment or page? I don't get why so many people are saying the same thing over and over again when I have already agreed to what most have said.

post #44 of 54

As others have noted, you absolutely need a ball however you can see a lot from a video taken with no club. In fact I would recommend you film a few swings with a ball but no club and, here is the key, don't swing. Just stand there and stare at the ball. Post it up here and tell you what I can see.

post #45 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post

As others have noted, you absolutely need a ball however you can see a lot from a video taken with no club. In fact I would recommend you film a few swings with a ball but no club and, here is the key, don't swing. Just stand there and stare at the ball. Post it up here and tell you what I can see.


You steeped to a new low...

post #46 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by savosean View Post


You steeped to a new low...

 

Just out of curiosity, where do you go to University? Montreal?

post #47 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

 

Just out of curiosity, where do you go to University? Montreal?

 

Ottawa U
 

post #48 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by savosean View Post


You steeped to a new low...

He was just using a metaphoric statement to help describe how useless it is to watch a person swing without a ball. I'm sorry to repeat this for you, but he's just trying to tell you that the swing changes when you swing at a ball. It's not the ballflight we care about, because most cameras can't follow the ball past 20 feet or so, but the actual swing and your impact positions. Impact positions can tell you a lot since they're what really matters when it comes down to it (Jim Furyk being a prime example), but swinging well will help you set up into a good impact position. You just can't get an impact position when you swing without a golf ball in front of you. For clarification though I am taking into account the direction and velocity of the club when I mention an "impact position" as being the most important to me.

post #49 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzel View Post

He was just using a metaphoric statement to help describe how useless it is to watch a person swing without a ball. I'm sorry to repeat this for you, but he's just trying to tell you that the swing changes when you swing at a ball. It's not the ballflight we care about, because most cameras can't follow the ball past 20 feet or so, but the actual swing and your impact positions. Impact positions can tell you a lot since they're what really matters when it comes down to it (Jim Furyk being a prime example), but swinging well will help you set up into a good impact position. You just can't get an impact position when you swing without a golf ball in front of you. For clarification though I am taking into account the direction and velocity of the club when I mention an "impact position" as being the most important to me.


Its like you don't think I couldn't understand what he was doing. It just was steeping to low and not needed. How many times Must I say this I know why people want me to use a ball. I am not saying more to people who don't read the thread anymore.

post #50 of 54

Can this thread actually get back on topic now?

 

Thank you.

post #51 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

Can this thread actually get back on topic now?

 

Thank you.


Definetly was hoping for it to never leave topic.

post #52 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

Can this thread actually get back on topic now?

 

Thank you.

 

Indeed.

 

I'm actually interested in seeing a swing with a ball.  With just a still of that setup I'd assume much worse than a 4 HC.  But if you took a still at A5 or A6 from the practice swing, I'd give a much more favorable guess as to the handicap.  I think honestly that's the most likely source of inconsistency, like I said above, where the OP starts with a very poor posture but then does a lot of recovering at the start of the downswing to get into a good position.  That can only add a big extra source of inconsistency, as the transition from poor posture to good posture/position is just one more big thing that has to go right to make good contact.

 

To the OP, one extra request.  When you post more swings, I personally at least much prefer to see videos of the sort that are the full speed swing followed by a slow motion version.  It's hard with youtube to stop/start the video all that well to get a really detailed view of the positions, so having a slo mo version tacked on is good.  I'm a mac guy, so I don't know the windows video software, but it's something that's super easy to do in iMovie if you're on a mac.

post #53 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post

 

Indeed.

 

I'm actually interested in seeing a swing with a ball.  With just a still of that setup I'd assume much worse than a 4 HC.  But if you took a still at A5 or A6 from the practice swing, I'd give a much more favorable guess as to the handicap.  I think honestly that's the most likely source of inconsistency, like I said above, where the OP starts with a very poor posture but then does a lot of recovering at the start of the downswing to get into a good position.  That can only add a big extra source of inconsistency, as the transition from poor posture to good posture/position is just one more big thing that has to go right to make good contact.

 

To the OP, one extra request.  When you post more swings, I personally at least much prefer to see videos of the sort that are the full speed swing followed by a slow motion version.  It's hard with youtube to stop/start the video all that well to get a really detailed view of the positions, so having a slo mo version tacked on is good.  I'm a mac guy, so I don't know the windows video software, but it's something that's super easy to do in iMovie if you're on a mac.


I will certainly get a video in slow motion for you, with a ball in the way. But, for now I can even slow motion the practice swings so you can explain more to me my bad posture at startup. Today, I was very consistent off the tee, was hitting a nice 5-10 yard draw at about 280 all day.

post #54 of 54
Thread Starter 

Slowmo practice swing...

 

I know its a practice SWING......

 

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